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> VVS-ChF bomber raids against Sulina
Victor
Posted: October 02, 2004 07:20 pm
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I am interested to know what VVS-CHF unit carried out a bombing raid on Sulina harbor on 28 June 1941 and damaged the NMS Aurora mine-laying ship.
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dragos
Posted: October 02, 2004 08:44 pm
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I don't know if it helps, but the only Soviet air unit assigned to the Soviet Danube flotilla in 1941, was the 96th fighter squadron.
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Dénes
Posted: October 02, 2004 10:35 pm
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I doubt that the 96th Fighter Squadron, actually the 96th Otdelnaya Aviaeskadrilya (OAE - independent squadron), was responsible for the mentioned bombing attack, as it was equipped only with Polikarpov I-153s and older I-15s.

Most probably the attackers have to be looked for among the bomber units of the VVS-ChF, as Victor noted.

Gen. Dénes
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dragos
Posted: October 03, 2004 12:52 pm
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Then maybe they are to be found among the VVS bomber units that also attacked Constanta during June 1941: 2nd, 40th and 63rd Regiments.
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Ruy Aballe
Posted: October 03, 2004 01:47 pm
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The 40th was one of the Long Range Bomber (DBA) regiments. The unit had DB-3 and DB-3F twin-engined bombers in its inventory.
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Th. Dorgeist
Posted: October 06, 2004 07:30 am
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Hallo zusammen,



ich habe für diesen Zeitraum folgende Daten und würde mich freuen zu den
Eintragungen etwas zu erfahren.





28.06.41 rum. oder dt. Prahm mit 15 cm Kanonen +++ russ. Flibo,
Sulina

rum. oder dt. Materialprahm +++ russ. Flibo, Sulina

rum Schlepper MANTURIREA +++ russ. Flibo, Sulina

rum Schlepper AURORA auf Strand gesetzt russ. Flibo, Sulina

16.07.41 rum Minenlegboot AURORA +++ russ. Luftangriff
,Domnita-Maria

16.07.41 rum Schlepper DANIEL +++ russ. Luftangriff
,Domnita-Maria

17?07.41 bul. Minenräumboot ..... +++ Feuer, Hafen Varna

07.41 russ.Boot 134 erbeutet

11.11.41 Der auf der Donau versenkte rum Eisbrecher MANTURIREA
(Flibo) soll noch im Nov. gehoben werden.

14.11.41 Schl. Vartossa und SF 10 bei Gibrieni Bucht an Land
getrieben (Bergung?)



Dank und Gruß



Theo
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Victor
Posted: October 06, 2004 04:31 pm
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QUOTE (Ruy Aballe @ Oct 3 2004, 03:47 PM)
The 40th was one of the Long Range Bomber (DBA) regiments. The unit had DB-3 and DB-3F twin-engined bombers in its inventory.

Not according to Black Cross/Red Star vol. I, where it is mentioned as part of VVS-ChF It apparentky started the war with SBs and later in 1941 received Pe-2s.

Dragos, what you mentioned are the 2 MTAP, 40 BAP and 63 BAB (I think)
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dragos
Posted: October 06, 2004 04:50 pm
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QUOTE (Victor)
Dragos, what you mentioned are the 2 MTAP, 40 BAP and 63 BAB (I think)


Well, I don't know what BAP or BAB means... :lol:
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Ruy Aballe
Posted: October 06, 2004 05:45 pm
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Victor,

I must check my references then, but as far as I know the Pe-2 was not a common sight in Long Range Bomber regiments in 1941.
The Black Cross/Red Star Vol. 1 book is quite a good source anyway, but I will take a peer at some others too.

Ruy
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Miroslav Morozov
Posted: January 02, 2005 11:37 pm
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Hello, friends!

There were SBs from 40th BAP of VVS CHf.
BTW, 63rd regiment never existed in VVS CHf. This misordered with 63rd air brigade which included both 2nd MTAP and 40th BAP.

Regards,
Miroslav
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Victor
Posted: January 03, 2005 07:41 am
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Thanks Miroslav for the confirmation. I presumed they belonged to the 40 BAP. I will modify the article on the Aurora.
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Mirek Wawrzynski
Posted: July 29, 2006 03:56 pm
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Hi
There are some mass about VVS BF bomber unit, which could be used against Romanian targets (Sulina, Constanca or other targets).

The VVS Black Fleet had 63. BAB (Bomber Air Brigade), which had 2 flying regiments: 2. MTAP (on fresh new DB-3F, later it was called Il-4 and on the begining of June 41 the 2. MTAP 71 and 54 servisable).
The next unit was 40. BAP (mostly on SB but on the first and third day of war to the 63. BAB had come 5 day each next bombers - Pe-2. They were attached to the 40 BAP - on separate flight/squadron, these planes were not send on air attack in the first week of war - crews were not yet trained).
To the 2 bomber regiment you have to add 2 separete bomber squadrons (70., 78. OBAE VVS BF) these separate bomber flight had 12 and 13 SB bombers each.

70 OBAE had airfiled near Odessa for example and had enough range to easly attack Sulina harbor as other bomber unit could the same taking off from Crime bases. And at last there was also 3. SURAP (training regiment), which also send some crew for attack on Rumanian targets (like Constanca) - on the first day of war.

SB bomber was not any long-range bomber, only DB-3, DB-3F could be so called and were treated as a long-range bombers. 2 MTAP had the version adopted for martime duties (torpedo and mine carriers as coul carry normal bombs).

Against Sulina could be used such bomber power of VVS BF (remeber that land aviation had also some bomber unit including longe- rage 4. DBAK).

On 22 VI 1941 the VVS BF bomber power had 136 servicable bombers (61 DB-3F + 75 SB).

See more data and stories on my material Hurricane over Constanca and Odessa. Esc. 53 van in comabt 1941. All text is only in Polish.

Regards

Mirek Wawrzynski

So I think that against Sulina could be used 70. OBAE or 78. OBAE, or 40. BAP. The mines were put by 2. MTAP which had ple adopted for this pourpes.

PS
I do not trust much the value of The Black Cross and Red Stars vol. 1 (too many errors and faults I have had discovered there about this or other topics). Not recomended.
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yugit
Posted: August 30, 2011 12:01 am
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Mr Morozov

According to my data bases on BBC and BMF in 1941 on which I've worked
for years in addition while also reviewing your both books Torpedos and BMF CHf Aviation 1941, on June 28,41....the 40th Sqduadron was not active at Sulina.

However the VVS 22nd Grp Long Range bombers which flew also recon missions over Sulina may have caused the mentioned loss of the Rumanian Navy.
The 22nd long range bombers of VVS took off from the naval air base at Saki.

Also the 67 IAP from Bolgrad along with 78 AE from Izmail were through the area, though I doubt they had something to do with it.Irronically the 67 IAP lost on that
day 2 planes SE of Vulcanesti

Lately I have completed my data base on all BMF and VVS losses in Rumania
between 1943 and Sept 29, 1944.

Best Regards

This post has been edited by yugit on August 30, 2011 12:14 am
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yugit
Posted: September 08, 2011 01:32 pm
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Hi

Just a feedback to your post which I saw
only now, additionally I am new on here
and I couldnt reply in time.

Your details containing critical errors.

1. It was called 3 URAP and not 3 SURAP , and unlike
you mentioned they operated SB's on long range
from Djankoe, they were all experienced pilots
instructors and they were 1st to fall at Constanza
and Tulcea....Agarici scored 2 3 URAP bombers.

2. 78 AE were based near Rumanian border at Izmail
and later at transf.in rush to Nikolaev they were not operated
from Odessa but arrived at Odessa on June 26,41 for
attacking various Rumanian targets and returned to Nikolaev

3. The 40 AP(BAP ) of the CHf operated DB-3T, DB-3F, PE-2
and even SB's

This post has been edited by yugit on September 08, 2011 07:32 pm
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