Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (6) « First ... 3 4 [5] 6   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> General Gheorghe Avramescu
Petre
Posted: June 03, 2011 07:20 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



From a (Net)book of Vadim Udilov (former KGB Maj.Gen.)
The CounterSpy's Notes. A look from inside (Zapisky kontrrazvedchika. Vzglyad iznutry), 1994
Chapter : War without front

The Operation "The Friends"
Soviet SMERSh organs have developed a large and long-term operation against underground nationalist and fascist groups, sent from Germany and operating in Romania....
Spies investigated: Schmidt, Gunner, Helmuth ...

......
Q: Whom from the conspiracy you know ?
A: I personally know Petrascu, also I know the followings: Gen.Avramescu, Gen.Dragalina, Gen.Aldea.
.....
Shmidt also confessed that he and The Iron Guard has counted on support from Radescu Prime Minister, ministers Negulescu and Penescu, Maniu and Bratianu, chief of the Security Service Stanescu, commanders of the garrison Bucuresti, Sibiu, Brasov and Craiova and a reactionary part of the Romanian Army officers.
......
True, the names of the generals-conspirators were known to the Soviets before. Gen.Avramescu appeared repeatedly on Gunner radiograms sent by "Helmuth" to RSHA office Vienna. From these radiograms it was possible to get definitive conclusions.
.....

Gunner to Strunk 18/01/1945:
"... On Jan.13 meet Avramescu on the front. Previously, by the baronesse Strudza, I learned Avramescu will be removed from the Army. They still not decided. If it will be so, we lose a great chance, because he agreed with all issues. His position against the Soviet authorities apparently unhurt.”
.....
RSHA, from Gunner:
"Gen.Avramescu promoted as Army General, CO of the Ro. 4th.A. Tomorow he goes to the front. Excellent relationship with Avramescu. He is ready for any cooperation with us. At the request of the The Iron Guard he went to the front, but promises that, if necessary, he will assume also political tasks. We are in a close relationship with Avramescu through a permanent liaison officer."
......
Sometimes, when they were serious problems, the Allies were obliged to pass something to us. So it was with the information on Gen.Avramescu.
......
In early Jan.1945, the head of OSS, Gen.Donovan, by the representative of the U.S. military mission in the USSR, Gen.Deane, sent an official letter to the Soviets, in which he warned of a possible failure of the Gen.Avramescu troops.
Here is that letter:

Office of Strategic Services, Washington : "Early Nov.1944, the Germans received information that Gen.Avramescu could pass to the German side with some units. It is said that in early Nov. he tried unsuccessfully to pass to Germans with his family. In an effort to suport him, the Germans organized a meeting between their military officials, Horia Sima and Prince Sturdza’s son (a relative of Avramescu)... Thus, Horia Sima together col.Steinhauzer, met in early Nov. at the "South Army Group” the generals von Grolman and Friesner. It was agreed that for the coordination of all operations in Romania, it must be set up a central command, similar to a government ... Later Horia Sima met Sturdza and the Germans in Budapest. At this meeting, Sturdza said Gen.Avramescu will not be able to bring any unit, except for his family ... "
......
The phrase of the decision to create a Command for Romania alerted the Soviets. Possibly, the readiness of the underground anti-Soviet forces was at a level that the Germans concluded they need to create a special command. The data gathered points Gen.Avramescu as an active participant in the conspiracy, and his mandate on command of a Romanian Army on the Soviet-German front had serious consequences.....
They decided to remove Avramescu, Dragalina and others from positions of command, to deprive them of their ability to use Romanian military units to support a Guard rebellion. It was decided to withdraw him for Bucharest, by the Allied Control Comitee, apparently consider his candidacy for high office in the Ministry of Defense. During this time, we gather additional material on his traitorous activities, and finally get him out of the game....
Avramescu has been advised of the possibility of being called to Bucharest for talks on promotion. This, by his liaison became known to the German resident Gunner.
.....

RSHA for Shtrunk : "Urgent this telegram sent to Horia Sima. Avramescu leave from the front to enter the government as minister. Our chances of success grow.”
......
German involvement became apparent in the telegram-directive, submitted on 10 Mar.1945 from RSHA Vienna to Petrascu. Radiogram was received by the agent "Helmut" and came to the Soviets.


This post has been edited by Petre on September 16, 2014 09:43 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Victor
Posted: June 10, 2011 05:53 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The messages could very well have been an "intelligence intoxication" from the Axis side. I personally find it hard to believe that Avramescu was contemplating such actions, given the overall military situation of the time and the sheer difficulty of such an operation in the given conditions. He was one the most experienced Romanian front commanders at the time.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Petre
Posted: November 22, 2011 09:37 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



01/02 November 2010 Moscow
International Conference on "Personality and social group in the past and present of the Central and Eastern Europe: biographies, prosoprographies, group portraits"
Organizers: the Commission of Historians of Russia and Hungary, the Institute for Scientific Information on Social Sciences, Institute of Slavic Studies
Tatyana Pokivaylova (Institute of Slavic Studies) presented : "The mystery of the death of the 4th Romanian Front(?) commander, Gen.G.Avramescu March 3, 1945"
(Tatyana Pokivaylova is specialised in romanian issues). Text not found.
PMEmail Poster
Top
MMM
Posted: December 01, 2011 05:01 pm
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1463
Member No.: 2323
Joined: December 02, 2008



QUOTE (Victor @ June 10, 2011 08:53 pm)
He was one the most experienced Romanian front commanders at the time.

Perhaps this was the reason for his untimely demise, then!
re: Pokivailova: she's quite a competent researcher - based on what I've read from her (in "Magazin Istoric", in the recent years). The confusion might come from the organisation of the Red Army in "Fronts" (practically, Army Groups) which also comprised the Romanian troops.


--------------------
M
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Petre
Posted: January 05, 2012 06:19 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: January 05, 2012 07:53 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



QUOTE (Klemen @ July 12, 2004 11:08 pm)
Zivjo Mihai!
In my reply to you which I have sent to you via personal mail (and which I hope you have received) ... if your search in the Russian National War Archives by Mrs. Natalia or in the FSB Archive ... If your great-grandfather was trailed before send to Siberia...

Found on the Web this dialogue :
http://vif2ne.ru/rkka/forum/arhprint/8059
QUOTE
Iulie 2004
Salut,
Am o intebare, exista cumva in arhive vreo informatie despre un general roman Gheorghe Avramescu ?
(...) A luptat impreuna cu trupele lui Malinovski in Slovacia. În conformitate cu spusele vărului sau, Regele Mihai s-a gandita sa fie o alternativă ptr. prim-ministru in România. Cu această ocazie a fost chiar si un banchet la staff-ul mareşalului Malinovski. Plecarea sa a fost stabilita pentru 3 martie, şi pe 2 a a fost chemat la Cmd Fr.2Uk. în Lucenec de unde nu s-a mai întors.
Familia lui a fost arestata şi exilata in Siberia.
După 15 de ani, s-a primit de la Crucea Roşie că generalul a fost ucis în timpul bombardamentelor germane şi a fost îngropat în apropierea de Budapesta.
Cu toate acestea, rudele sunt sigure că l-a impuscat NKVD. În aceeaşi zi, au fost arestaţe şi ulterior suprimate alte 36 de persoane din anturajul său.
Are cineva un sfat unde sa se adreseze rudele (arhive NKVD, NKGB, similare) ?
Ms, Alexei.

Gen.Avramescu a fost arestat fie de SMERSh, fie de grupa operativa a Imputernicitului NKVD de la Fr2Uk. Daca a fost considerat POW si predat organului GUPVI, trebuie vazut la cartoteca GUPVI - Fond 463 RGVA … trebuie apelat la Natalia Samson Vladimirova, Moscova, 156-66-64. (Sala lectura a fostului THIDK...). Daca in cartoteca nu apare gen. Avramescu, inseamna ca si-a sfarsit zilele in mainile NKGB si intrebarea trebuie adresata la registratura FSB.
Dictionarul lui K.A.Zaleski "Aliatii Germaniei" scrie ca a fost condamnat si trimis in Siberia, unde a murit in lagar 1945. Putin probabil, dar se poate verifica la cartoteca Curtii supreme a F.Ruse.
Gleb Baraev


This post has been edited by Petre on January 05, 2012 07:56 pm
PMEmail Poster
Top
yugit
Posted: January 10, 2012 09:53 am
Quote Post


Sergent major
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 216
Member No.: 3058
Joined: May 07, 2011



I think it will be a mistake to speculate what has really
happened to Avramescu, I also believe that ZAMO
archives will not release any info as they work
against fees and given the importance of the case they will
even increase the cost......which by the end of the day
and in long run their material may prove useless.

From biographies of Gen.Trofimenko who was
under Malinovsky and commanded the 27 army
is indirectly clear that SMERSH was eagger to eliminate
the Rumanian Army leadership which posed headaches
to the Russian command and those who potentially
posed an ideological threat . I doubt that Avramescu
was ever sent to Siberia but shot on spot by NKVD-
SMERSH on something Berya has approved or was
knowledgeable about,period.Trofimenko died early 1953.

http://imageshack.us/content_round.php?pag...mupload&newlp=1

The photo is from the mentioned bios and the Rumanian
General on right corner who seems to be Churchills
double is unknown to me. Avramescu rarely chreered
or smilled on any of his photos...may have felt the troubles
to come ahead...which ended so bad for him and his family.

Alex K

PS : For further research I suggest two books I have
though I am lacking the time for deeper study:

"FROM HITLER'S DOORSTEEP " (Intel reports Allen Dulles 1942-45)
"HITLER's FORGOTTEN ALLY"

This post has been edited by yugit on January 10, 2012 10:58 am
PMEmail Poster
Top
Petre
Posted: January 10, 2012 07:11 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



QUOTE (yugit @ January 10, 2012 09:53 am)
I doubt that Avramescu was ever sent to Siberia but shot...

QUOTE (Internet)
In the late of 1950s the Romanian authorities were informed that Avramescu was killed by a strafing German aircraft 3 Mar.1945 near Jasbereni (Hu), though there was evidence suggesting he was killed by NKVD on the suspicion that he might had considered defecting his army to the German side.
He was initially buried in Budapest, Hungary; on 23 Oct 2000 his remains were brought back to Romania and were reburied with military honours in the Military Cemetery of Cluj Napoca.


This post has been edited by Petre on January 10, 2012 07:20 pm
PMEmail Poster
Top
yugit
Posted: January 10, 2012 09:50 pm
Quote Post


Sergent major
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 216
Member No.: 3058
Joined: May 07, 2011



If remains were reburied in Rumania a pathological test
would have immediately revealled if a personal weapon
or an acft gun were involved ...isnt it ?
PMEmail Poster
Top
21 inf
Posted: January 11, 2012 05:57 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Retired
Posts: 1512
Member No.: 1232
Joined: January 05, 2007



A romanian medical examination of remains of general Avramescu was made when he was exhumated in order to be moved in Romania and a full medical report was written.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on January 11, 2012 07:09 am
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
yugit
Posted: January 11, 2012 09:17 am
Quote Post


Sergent major
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 216
Member No.: 3058
Joined: May 07, 2011



Well then is all clear and concluded .
PMEmail Poster
Top
21 inf
Posted: January 11, 2012 09:18 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Retired
Posts: 1512
Member No.: 1232
Joined: January 05, 2007



QUOTE (21 inf @ January 11, 2012 07:57 am)
A romanian medical examination of remains of general Avramescu was made when he was exhumated in order to be moved in Romania and a full medical report was written.

I dont know the results of the latest romanian medical examinations of the remains.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Petre
Posted: January 11, 2012 09:22 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 894
Member No.: 2434
Joined: March 24, 2009



But some people (M.Dogaru ?) claimed it was no med. exam. And others said the remains had no clothes in his grave.
PMEmail Poster
Top
yugit
Posted: January 11, 2012 10:47 am
Quote Post


Sergent major
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 216
Member No.: 3058
Joined: May 07, 2011



All :

From the same memoires I cited before, is absolutely
clear that there was no aerial activities of the enemy
on that perimeter of the front as far as the Germans
and Hungarians Air Forces were concerned. This type
of Katyn type elimination pattern fits SMERSH and
the Stalin prosecutor Vishinksy who was very often
scanning the Rumanian leadership while often in
Rumania. The single mistery remains the sudden
execution without a trial, the Russians must have
feared something real serious.

One thing though , from some books related to
Abwehr and Rumanian secret service 44/45 is
obvious that Avramescu was highly regarded by
the Germans and sooner or later he would been
executed anyways. SMERSH was fully knowledgeable
about this
PMEmail Poster
Top
21 inf
Posted: January 11, 2012 11:36 am
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Retired
Posts: 1512
Member No.: 1232
Joined: January 05, 2007



QUOTE (Petre @ January 11, 2012 11:22 am)
But some people (M.Dogaru ?) claimed it was no med. exam. And others said the remains had no clothes in his grave.

I personally spoke with one romanian officer who was eyewitness at the medical exam performed when Avramescu was undigged for repatriation.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (6) « First ... 3 4 [5] 6  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.1209 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]