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johnny_bi
Posted: July 18, 2003 10:33 pm
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There were Romanian officers accused after WWII of commiting war crimes ?
I do not mean Antonescu and other Romanian officials...
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C-2
Posted: July 18, 2003 11:49 pm
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QUOTE
There were Romanian officers accused after WWII of commiting war crimes ?
I do not mean Antonescu and other Romanian officials...

Try http://www.generals.dk
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mabadesc
Posted: July 18, 2003 11:51 pm
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Oh yeah, about 50-60 generals alone were arrested and tried for war crimes, executing civilians, etc. Some were aquitted, but most ended up doing years of jails for their supposed "crimes".
Even the ones who were acquitted at their first trial in '46-'49 were tried again for the same crime in the '50's, and the second time around most were convicted. I'll post a list of generals who died in prison...you'll be surprised.
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johnny_bi
Posted: July 19, 2003 03:43 am
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I'm interested in real war crimes... officers. NCO, soldiers... examples of real war crimes commited by the Romanians.
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Victor
Posted: July 19, 2003 10:47 am
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Most "little fish" got away.
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Dénes
Posted: July 19, 2003 02:38 pm
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Check out the following book, perhaps in your local library:
Matatias Carp: 'Cartea Neagra - Suferintele evreilor din Romania, 1940-1944', Societatea Nationala de Editura si Arte Grafice 'Dacia Traiana', Bucuresti, 1947 & 1948.

The text includes names of soldiers and officers, units, places, etc., reportedly taken from the archives.

I don't know how accurate those allegations are, so a certain amount of awareness is recommended.

Dénes
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Geto-Dacul
Posted: July 21, 2003 03:13 am
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Dénes wrote :

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Matatias Carp: 'Cartea Neagra - Suferintele evreilor din Romania, 1940-1944', Societatea Nationala de Editura si Arte Grafice 'Dacia Traiana', Bucuresti, 1947 & 1948.  


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I don't know how accurate those allegations are, so a certain amount of awareness is recommended.


Oh... There's a lot of litterature about the "Romanian Holocaust"! To see how correct Matatias's allegations may be, check the "key" years of publications and also the fact that Matatias Carp was writing propaganda articles for "Signal" magazine during 1941-1944! I personally saw his name in a 1943 French edition of this magazine... When I'll find the exact coordonates, I'll give them.

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johnny_bi
Posted: July 21, 2003 03:19 am
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Victor said :
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Most \"little fish\" got away.


Any examples?

What was the position of Ion Antonescu in this matter? Agreed? Disagreed? Aproved? Did he encourage such acts ?
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Victor
Posted: July 21, 2003 08:00 am
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I cannot give you too many examples, since I could not find many names. Between 14 May and 13 July 1945m, 59 people were put on trial for war crimes. Some were surely guilty, like lt. col. VasileAgapie, the CO of the Vartejeni and Marculesti camps (he got 25 years), but others, like gen. Macici were innocent. 5 were acquitted. But 59 people is a fat too small number.

A serious, objective work on the Romanian Holocaust has not appeared yet. Hopefully it will and it will point out those who were responsible, so that some authors stop blaming the whole Romanian Army and people for it.

Some names I can give you (of people who were not put on trial) is maj. Gheorghe Vartic, from the 7th Division, who supervised the execution of 132 people in Tg. Herta or cpt. Ioan Stihi from the 6th Vanatori Regiment who ordered the shooting of 60 people evacuated by the Germans from Tg. Sculeni, because, as the report stated, Soviet weapons were found in their possession.

Ion Antonescu was the one the head of the State and he took the important decisions. He did sanction any authors of executions. The deportations were made at his order. The instructions were to execute the Jews that could not keep up with the convoys. It is also true that he refused to hand over the Jews from the Regat to the Germans. This happened before the Soviet winter offensive at Stalingrad.
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johnny_bi
Posted: July 22, 2003 04:15 am
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Victor said :
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A serious, objective work on the Romanian Holocaust has not appeared yet. Hopefully it will and it will point out those who were responsible, so that some authors stop blaming the whole Romanian Army and people for it.  


Yes, it is true... But why there are some authors that blame the entire Romanian Army while the German Army was not blamed?
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Victor
Posted: July 22, 2003 06:18 am
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QUOTE


Yes, it is true... But why there are some authors that blame the entire Romanian Army while the German Army was not blamed?


Who knows what kind of agenda they have?
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dragos
Posted: July 23, 2003 01:14 pm
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A controversial event is the Antonescu's order of retribution after the partisan blew up the Romanian HQ in Odessa. Some sources mention that the order foresaw the execution by hanging of 50 communists/jews for every officer killed, and 10 for every soldier. In an article with an officer interviewed in the Romanian Military History magazine (I have to search for the issue because I can't remember many details), he said that the order was not executed literally. But it is certain that executions took place.
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dragos
Posted: July 23, 2003 01:32 pm
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Also, my aunt and my grandmother, settled in Odessa with public administration duties, remembered horrific images of the ghetto in Odessa.

They also saw russian prisoners loading train wagons, that were so hungry that they were crushing wheat or corn grains with stones, and eating the flour raw.
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Victor
Posted: July 24, 2003 06:18 am
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QUOTE
A controversial event is the Antonescu's order of retribution after the partisan blew up the Romanian HQ in Odessa. Some sources mention that the order foresaw the execution by hanging of 50 communists/jews for every officer killed, and 10 for every soldier. In an article with an officer interviewed in the Romanian Military History magazine (I have to search for the issue because I can't remember many details), he said that the order was not executed literally. But it is certain that executions took place.


On 22 October 1941, at 1745, 93 men were killed in the explosion of the Romanian Military Command in Odessa. As reprisals,on 23 October, between 0300 and 1100 417 Jews were executed, as follows:
23rd Infantry Regiment: 102
33rd infantry Regiment: 85
38th Infantry Regiment: 100
3rd Artillery Regiment: 130

During the trial of marshal Antonescu it was stated that 5000 Jews were taken to Dalnik (near Odessa) and put into 4 warehouses (25-30 m long and 10-15 m wide) and then killed with MGs and grenades and then set on fire. However, given the size of the warehouses, about 3000 could have entered inside them.
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dragos
Posted: July 24, 2003 07:56 am
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Here are some more details on the events in Odessa:

On 22 October, partisans blew up the HQ of 10th Division in Odessa. The explosion killed 79 men, wounded 43, another 13 being missing. 128 Romanians and 7 Germans. Among the 73 Romanians killed was general Ioan Glogojanu, commander of 10th Infantry Division.

On 23 October 1941, General Trestioreanu, according to the order #302826, orders that each regiment in Odessa to execute by hanging and shooting 100 jews.

4th Army receives the telegram #562 (#3161) with the order of marshal Ion Antonescu for executing 200 comunists for every Romanian or German officer dead in the explosion, 100 for every soldier. All comunists in the city and one member of each jewish familiy have to be taken hostage, all being executed in the event of a similar act.

On 24 October, the order #563 is transmited to general Nicolae Macici. Marshal Antonescu foresees that all jews fled from Bessarabia to Odessa to be executed. Another group of individuals (orders 3 161/302 858/23 oct) to be gathered into a mined building, to be blown up.

On 25 October, general Nicolae Macici reports the execution of over 13,000 jews and communists in Odessa. Over 400 were hanged in streets and squares.
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