Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (4) 1 [2] 3 4   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Reason for Germany's defeat
Chandernagore
Posted: May 12, 2004 08:25 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



QUOTE
I meant the oil and supply route from the Middle East which, if I recall correctly, was also used by the Allies to send material goods to the Soviet Union.


A good (if a bit drab) book on the subject :
The Caucasus and the Oil, The German-Soviet War in the Caucasus 1942/43 Wilhelm Tieke

The overall impression is that the Germans simply lacked the ressources to push to Baku. There was indeed only "a few" hundred km to go but it was across some of the best defensive terrain one can imagine. The Soviets were also much closer to their supply lines than the Germans. Mule pack supply was not very effective :mrgreen:

So, even if the objective looked good on the map, the Germans probably didn't have a chance of reaching each it with the allocated forces (thanks to Stalingrad).
PM
Top
Victor
Posted: May 12, 2004 03:31 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4336
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



The Germans could however, threaten the oil fields as well as the transports on the Caspian Sea from the air.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
drillsgt
Posted: May 12, 2004 05:16 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 32
Member No.: 181
Joined: January 04, 2004



I have thought long and hard about this question. The first and foremost reason is having having a former Corporal tell the Generals how to fight( not just Generals , but some of the most brilliant commanders ever).Second,Germany failed to win the "Battle of Britain" which meant that when they decided to invade the USSR , they would have to fight a war on 2 fronts.Third, the Germans did not ever develop a 4 engine strategic bomber like the U.S. B-17 and later B-29.The Russians were simply able to move the arms factories out of range of the Hinkel He111 and the were safe. Forth Germany never truely put the country on a wartime footing as far as their industry was concerned. They were dramatically out produced by the Soviet Union, and the United States. There are more reasons of lessor importance , but these I believe are major mistakes. Garry Owen!!!
PM
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: May 14, 2004 07:48 am
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



Which makes me think that the only developped German "secret weapon" which had the potential of turning the tables was the jet fighter.

But the little Austrian corporal had a deep vision : use them as bombers :lol:
PM
Top
rcristi
Posted: May 14, 2004 12:51 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 47
Member No.: 177
Joined: January 03, 2004



QUOTE
Which makes me think that the only developped German \"secret weapon\" which had the potential of turning the tables was the jet fighter.

But the little Austrian corporal had a deep vision : use them as bombers  :lol:


Agree. One question though, why our painter insisted to transform Me 262 in a bomber when they desperately needed a fighter? just to get back bombing Britain? he did have the V1 and V2 for that...

Cheers
PMUsers Website
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: May 14, 2004 03:00 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



QUOTE
Agree. One question though, why our painter insisted to transform Me 262 in a bomber when they desperately needed a fighter? just to get back bombing Britain? he did have the V1 and V2 for that...


General Galland, late commander of the "Jagd", thought it was pure madness : a pathological need to retaliate for the bombing of Germany. He couldn't see the fighter arm as anything but purely defensive and it didn't fit his mood at the time. The last big counter offensive launched by the Luftwaffe in the west (made possible by Speer's industrial miracles) was likewise wasted in serie of inefficient, piecemal ground attacks. While Galland was desperately urging concentration against the huge B17 "boxes" that were turning German cities into rubbles.

His memoirs are very interesting.
PM
Top
Dan Po
Posted: May 16, 2004 03:55 pm
Quote Post


Sergent major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 208
Member No.: 226
Joined: February 23, 2004



[quote]In my opinion, the only scenario in wich Germany could won is them wining the Battle of Britain. This way the US had to fight on two fronts on it's own, Germany having it's industry at safe, SU losing the allied logistic support and so on. Even so with the painter in power I'm not so sure.[/quote]

I agree with this oppinion. I don t see how the US can atack Europe without the vital teritory of GB. And then the defeat of SU was very possible ...

But a Europe rulled by nazi its a nightmare and i don t want to think at this ...
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
Victor
Posted: May 16, 2004 07:13 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4336
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



[quote]But a Europe rulled by nazi its a nightmare and i don t want to think at this ...[/quote]

I remember seeing a German economist on Discovery claiming that all the Nazi economical successes were soap bubbles. Sooner or later they would have crumbled economically, just like the Communist did.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
johnny_bi
Posted: May 16, 2004 09:06 pm
Quote Post


Sergent major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 214
Member No.: 6
Joined: June 18, 2003



[quote]I remember seeing a German economist on Discovery claiming that all the Nazi economical successes were soap bubbles. Sooner or later they would have crumbled economically, just like the Communist did.[/quote]

I have a post here from a Axis forum discussion... an interesting discussion about German economy before WWII...
PM
Top
Victor
Posted: May 17, 2004 05:41 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4336
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



[quote]
I have a post here from a Axis forum discussion... an interesting discussion about German economy before WWII...[/quote]

Where? There is no link.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
johnny_bi
Posted: May 17, 2004 01:20 pm
Quote Post


Sergent major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 214
Member No.: 6
Joined: June 18, 2003



PM
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: June 02, 2004 06:11 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



I cannot imagine a scenario in which Germany wins the war without the A bomb and the US has it. So the whole war resolves around a piece of scientific research and, in comparison, all the rest, the battles, the strategies, the soldiers, the production etc... are as effective as a firefly on a pachyderm's butt :mrgreen:
PM
Top
bebe
Posted: July 04, 2004 08:27 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 19
Member No.: 301
Joined: June 28, 2004



I think the Germans lost the war because Hitler should have lured Franco into the war, if not invade Spain. He would have taken Gibraltar and with it Northern Africa (oil!!!) and teh Royal Navy in the Mediteranean would have been anihilated. Then, with all his forces he should have started BArbarossa, in spring, not sumer.

*translated by admin*
PM
Top
Chandernagore
Posted: July 13, 2004 02:24 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
Group Icon

Group: Banned
Posts: 818
Member No.: 106
Joined: September 22, 2003



QUOTE
I think the Germans lost the war because Hitler should have lured Franco into the war, if not invade Spain. He would have taken Gibraltar and with it Northern Africa (oil!!!) and teh Royal Navy in the Mediteranean would have been anihilated. Then, with all his forces he should have started BArbarossa, in spring, not sumer.

*translated by admin*


I don't see how the Germans could have started Barbarossa earlier by invading Spain. Unless they wanted to follow in the footsteps of Napoleon : invading both and getting none :roll:
PM
Top
mabadesc
Posted: July 13, 2004 05:00 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 803
Member No.: 40
Joined: July 11, 2003



I think Bebe has an interesting argument...
PM
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (4) 1 [2] 3 4  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0175 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]