Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (6) « First ... 4 5 [6]   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Amazing: restored JU-88 with Romanian markings
beau227
Posted: July 15, 2013 06:39 am
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Member No.: 3531
Joined: June 29, 2013



Its been so many years I've had the SM79 photos (serial No. 106 on fin) I have to find the original notes, if any, that came with it for any additional info, but its 1944. The He111 is a new one for me, and interesting. Its strange that the diaries of RAF units , squadrons, mainaitance units, at the time , make no mention of either of these two aircraft. And they usually do when something unusual lands at any of the Cyprus airfields. The Ju88 is mentioned, as well as an Italian Z506 that came and landed at Limassol in 1943 soon after the Ju88 of which I also have photos.
As we were mentioning the book War Prizes, all except the Ju88, are not mentioned in the book, so it seems there are many unknown facts in this area. I am curious as to what happened to all these machines. I shall be on the look out for anything on the Heinkel also.
PMEmail Poster
Top
Dénes
Posted: July 15, 2013 12:43 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



The info is that they took off to Cyprus. It does not say they actually arrived...
Although the escape was certainly successful, as the pilot reportedly returned to Rumania after 23 Aug. 1944 in RAF uniform (??).
You know the date, so the search should not be that exhaustive.

Gen. Dénes wink.gif
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Cantacuzino
Posted: July 15, 2013 01:06 pm
Quote Post


Host
Group Icon

Group: Hosts
Posts: 2328
Member No.: 144
Joined: November 17, 2003



QUOTE
However, because I never heard this story about a He111 at Nicosia, BUT, I do have photos of a Romanian SM79JR at Nicosia, supposedly from a defection


This Savoia should be the plane wich took G-ral Radescu on 15 june '46 to Nicosia.

From wikipedia
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_R%C4%83descu

QUOTE
Planul de plecare din țară a fost simplu, dar foarte bine pus la punct. În dimineața zilei de 15 iunie, însoțit de secretarul său, Barbu Niculescu, și de șofer (agent al Poliției, care avea sarcina să-l supravegheze), generalul Rădescu îi face o vizită lui Iuliu Maniu. Apoi a cerut să fie dus la nepoata sa, Aura Sachelarie, unde obișnuia să ia masa duminica, și l-a rugat pe șofer să vină să-l ia după-amiază. Sosit la ora stabilită, șoferul a constatat că generalul întârzie și, în urma cercetărilor, că nu se mai afla în imobil; generalul nu ajunsese nici la locuința
nepotului său, ceea ce a determinat anchetarea lui Nicolae Șerbănescu. Era deja prea târziu. Generalul Nicolae Rădescu ajunsese pe aeroportul din
Nicosia


Other source gave the date 17 june '46, the pilot of Savoia Marchetti was Adj. major Spuza .

http://revista.memoria.ro/?location=view_article&id=730

QUOTE
După această dată, 6 martie 1945, a urmat o perioadă dificilă pentru general. Urmărit de comunişti, s-a refugiat la Ambasada Marii Britanii, unde a primit azil politic.

Ulterior a revenit în Clopotarii Vechi sub stricta supraveghere a autorităţilor comuniste. La insistenţele repetate ale Moscovei, guvernul Petru Groza a vrut să-l aresteze, fapt care a dus la părăsirea ţării în 17 iunie 1946 cu un avion bimotor Savoia Marchetti pilotat de adjutantul maior Spuză. Întreaga misiune de a-l scoate din ţară a îndeplinit-o secretarul lui, Barbu Niculescu, omul care a rămas lângă generalul Rădescu până la sfârşitul vieţii. După o scurtă şedere în Cipru, Rădescu pleacă în 1948 în SUA unde a reuşit să unească diaspora română şi să înfiinţeze Comitetul Naţional Român. A publicat un raport de 163 pagini intitulat ?Suprimarea drepturilor omului în România? prezentat şi în Adunarea Generală ONU.


This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on July 15, 2013 01:24 pm
PM
Top
beau227
Posted: July 16, 2013 08:36 am
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 10
Member No.: 3531
Joined: June 29, 2013



The pieces are starting to come together.
QUOTE
The info is that they took off to Cyprus. It does not say they actually arrived...

There is a strong possibility you are correct and have a good point there, and that may explain the lack of information of such an arrival. I will be popping into the IWM archive next month again and shall have an extra careful look at any Heinkel photo files.

Cantacuzino, I believe you may have put your finger on it. Well done, and thank you for the very useful information. I was wrong about the 1944, and it was 1946. That explains everything.

This is just a thumbnail of what the photos look like.


user posted image

This a close up of the markings on the aircraft

user posted image

And I noticed these markings on a couple of the props blades, which tells me they were probably new props that were installed prior to its flight.

user posted image

Whats the significance of 17 June on both occasions ? Is it national escape in an airplane day or something ? Just joking !
PMEmail Poster
Top
antoni
Posted: July 20, 2013 05:11 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 27
Member No.: 2197
Joined: July 21, 2008



QUOTE (Florin @ July 13, 2013 12:52 am)
Before the defection of the lone Romanian pilot in July 1943, a whole German crew of 3 people (with only 2 of them really wanting this) defected with a Ju-88 to Great Britain, in May 1943.

On afternoon, Sunday, 9th May 1943, two Spitfires from 165 squadron Blue Section, were scrambled from Dyce to intercept a lone Ju 88 that had been plotted heading across the North Sea. Shortly after making landfall thirteen miles north-west of Aberdeen, the German encountered a pair of Spitfire Mk Vbs, BN515 flown by F/Lt A F Roscoe DFC (Blue 1) and AB921 with Sgt B R Scamen (Blue 2). No shots were fired and the Spitfires proceeded to escort the Ju 88 to Dyce where it landed at 18.20 hours.

The Ju 88 R1 had taken off from Aalborg in Denmark at 15.03 hrs Flown by Oberleutnant Heinrich (some accounts say Herbert) Schmitt (Pilot), Oberfeldwebel Erich Kantwill (Flight Engineer) and Oberfeldwebel Paul Rosenberger (Wireless Op/Air Gunner). From IV Gruppe of Nachtjagdgeschwader 3 and coded D5+EV, the Ju 88 landed at Kristiansand in Norway for refuelling one hour later, taking off again at 16.50 hrs for a mission over the Skagerrak. The Wireless Operator reported that one of the engines was on fire and the aircraft was going to ditch in the sea. Nothing more was heard from the crew again and the Luftwaffe assumed that the aircraft had been lost at sea.

In 1974 the German newspaper Bild Am Sontag investigated the incident in which it alleged that Schmitt had been a British agent since 1940. The newspaper claimed that Schmitt had regularly supplied information to Britain by way of his father, who sent it from his home in Thüringen via relay radio stations in Portugal and Switzerland.

According to Bild Am Sontag, Schmitt had flown to Britain on at least one previous occasion before his arrival at Dyce. He had been chosen to deliver a package to a representative of the British High Command in 1941, landing a Do 217 at Lincoln during the night of 20/21 May. The landing lights had been turned on to guide him in. Schmitt allegedly handed over the package to a waiting British officer and then immediately took off and returned to Britain.

It is believed that the successful arrival of the Ju 88 at Dyce was signalled to Schmitt's father via the British propaganda radio station “Gustav Seigfried Eins”. The message that was broadcast was “May has come”, which implies that this was a prearranged code.

To add weight to the theory that Schmitt was working for the British, it had been noted by Helmut Fiedler, a former German ground crew on the Ju 88, that it was most unusual that such a long serving crew as Schmitt, Rosenberger and Kantwill had never made any interceptions of British aircraft and had never shot down any allied planes.

According to the scientist R V Jones, who led the British counter-radar effort, the German crew said that “they had little sympathy with the Nazis, and when they received orders to shoot down our civil courier flying between Scotland and Stockholm, it was time for them to get out of the war. So during a normal sortie they signalled that they had an engine failure and were losing height: in fact they dived down to sea level to get below the German radar cover, and then headed for Aberdeen. They were detected by our radar, and intercepted by two Spitfires from a Canadian squadron who recognised that their intentions were not offensive, who took the risk of escorting them over Aberdeen and into Dyce.”

Schmitt later confirmed this by declaring that: “I had seen enough with my own eyes how things stood for us. The oppression, the deaths on the battlefields, the murder of my Jewish fiancée. The country was wading in blood. It was enough.” So he and rosenberger had decided to defect to Britain. The third member of the crew, Kantwill, had not wanted to desert to the enemy but the other two gave him no choice, Rosenberger having held him at gunpoint during the flight to Scotland.
In the interview Schmitt gave to Bild Am Sontag he explained that his father was a long-standing enemy of National Socialism and had been the secretary to Gustav Stressemann, the Foreign Minister in the former Weimer Republic. He had kept in touch with the Social Democrats that had escaped to London. He admitted to have landed at RAF Lincoln in 1941. [NB There are many airfields in Lincolnshire but to my knowledge no RAF Lincoln. The nearest base to the city of Lincoln is RAF Waddington.] “It was all part of the grey war that existed at that time. I wasn't the only German pilot to land, by arrangement in Britain, and several British pilots made landings in Germany, which were known to the people who mattered on our side. It was well known that Hitler was prepared to pay a high price to make peace with Britain, and the secret flights only ended when we attacked Russia, and Britain and Russia became allies.”

According to Schimtt the landing at Lincoln was on behalf of the Luftwaffe, but what the package was that he handed to the waiting British officer, Schmitt never knew.

Schmitt and Rosenberger contributed further to the Allied war effort. The two men became regular broadcasters on Gustav Seigfried Eins which was broadcast at 16.00 hrs each day. “The war is lost,“ Schmitt told his countrymen but under an assumed name, “don't sacrifice your lives for a future war and incompetent leaders. In England and Sweden there are airfields where you will be welcomed as we were. Remember – waggle the wings of your aircraft, and you will be escorted in to a safe landing.“

After the war Schmitt returned to Germany. Using his own name he married and was found work with the Social Democrats.

Rosenburger, who used the name Obermeyer in BBC broadcasts, also briefly returned to Germany. He established a new life and new identity, at which point according to some accounts, he settled in France. Other sources say he ran a restaurant in Wiltshire.

Having steadfastly refused to cooperate with Schmitt and Rosenburger, Kantwell spent the rest of the war as a PoW. After the war he initially returned to is home in Dortmund, eventually emigrating to Canada before moving across the border into the USA.
PMEmail Poster
Top
Florin
Posted: July 21, 2013 04:18 pm
Quote Post


General de corp de armata
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1879
Member No.: 17
Joined: June 22, 2003



Antoni, thanks for the details regarding the 3 men of the German crew.
A reminder that when the subject is WWII, there is always something new to learn about it.
PM
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (6) « First ... 4 5 [6]  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0210 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]