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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > WW2 in General > Romanian Legionary Movement|
|Posted by: Panzermahn April 27, 2005 04:32 am|
| I just found a link that explain much about the Romanian Legionary Movement (Legion of Archangel Michael) First part:
|Posted by: Imperialist April 27, 2005 05:20 am|
So what is the link?
Who are the people that wrote/posted this on their webpage? So we can see how "serious" these people are.
|Posted by: Victor April 27, 2005 03:54 pm|
That is absolutely false and such claims do not even deserve attention. This is clearly an attempt to whitewash the image of the Iron Guard.
|Posted by: dragos03 April 27, 2005 04:07 pm|
| There is nothing false here. The original Legion of Archangel Michael, led by Corneliu Codreanu, had the only purpose of creating better Romanians. There was no hate involved, of any kind.
The movement changed dramatically after Codreanu's death and after Horin Sima became leader.
|Posted by: Imperialist April 27, 2005 05:55 pm|
Reading Codreanu's writings is enough to see that the movement was full of hatred.
|Posted by: dragos03 April 27, 2005 06:05 pm|
|Really? Why don't you quote me something?|
|Posted by: Imperialist April 27, 2005 06:55 pm|
Why should I? Its a known fact.
|Posted by: dragos03 April 27, 2005 09:00 pm|
|Great answer. You should read more and avoid "well-known facts".|
|Posted by: Imperialist April 27, 2005 09:14 pm|
Serious answers follow serious questions. Your assertion that
is not serious.
|Posted by: Panzermahn April 28, 2005 09:20 am|
| I don't see any hatred in Corneliu Zelea Codreanu's writtings. He is a truly Romanian patriot and idealist and sincerely believe in Romanian and Romania's spiritual transformation based on the fundamentals of his Legionary Movement. He doesn't care about the rest of the world but only for Romania. Codreanu hated Bolshevism and their internationalism efforts of propaganda hatred and incitement of world proletarian revolution.
Dragos3 is right, the movement of the Legion of Archangel Michael changes perspectively after Codreanu was murdered by the reactionnary King
I see no hatred on the original fundamentals of Codreanu's teaching.
|Posted by: Panzermahn April 28, 2005 09:28 am|
| second part:
|Posted by: Iamandi April 28, 2005 10:07 am|
| Panzermahn, you are right in one point of view: Codreanu was a patriot. Unfortunatelly he was an extremist. I read something about him, and i was impressed. Alexandru H., please, after reading this, don't change my tag from "comunist" to "legionar".
|Posted by: Imperialist April 28, 2005 10:21 am|
| Oh yes, the Institute for Historical Review... now we know what is the source of these blatant lies.
p.s. I'll soon post the fragments full of hatred I just dont have the time now. But I will.
|Posted by: dragos03 April 28, 2005 11:43 am|
|We are waiting.|
|Posted by: ostuf Charlemagne April 30, 2005 03:34 am|
| “they reduce every phenomenon to a linear problem: good or bad, to be accepted or rejected.”
I agree 100 % .The diabolisation of the fascist movements after WW 2 by both the communism and liberalism and their tools : Hollywood and the today “politically correctness”, have lead to a manicheism (black or white) way to think ,which ,indeed is no other thing then the impoverishment of the mind.
About “hate” ,the only hate I can see in these messages is the hate that some readers ,like “Imperialist” ,professes against the memory of Codreanu .
About lies and “well-known facts” ,I think that any reader is free to prove these lies in base at evidenced facts ,and we wait for them .Unlike National-Socialism ,which rested on the exaltation of the race ,and unlike Fascism which rested on exaltation of the state ,the Iron Guard rested on Christian standpoints .(In that the Iron Guard had many common points with the Spanish Phalange and the regime of Franco was not a murderer one – I know ‘cause I lived there at this time .)
Indeed the programm of the Iron guard ,of antiliberalism and anticommunist, is not far from the programm of today Pope Benedict XVI : Where is the “hate” ??
So the Iron guardists perpetred some attempts : In their case it was just self-defense ; when somebody shot at your brother ,you shot him ....
Other things happened during the war : THE WAR IS ABOUT KILLING ,ON BOTH SIDES.
This is why we call this situation “war” ,and it is surely not nice .
Everybody is free to like or dislike any historical figure .But ,please ,let’s keep the facts and ideas flowing : this is what a forum is all about .
Beside we are here talking about a man but no one of us knew him personnally .So here in the testimony of a man who knew Codreanu .It is an interview done by italian philosophe Julius Evola and this writing was published in Civiltà, Roma, n. 2, september 1973.
I translate from the original italian text :
“Among the chiefs of renewal movements which appeared during the time between both world wars and that I had met personnally ,I remember in particular the chief of the Romanian Iron Guard ,Corneliu Codreanu , as one the most straight and noble figure .It was during the spring of 1936 when I interviewed him during one of my travels in the many european countries . Codreanu impacted ,even physically : Tall ,well proportionned ,he reflected the racial type of a “roman-arian” which had some samples in Romania and who bear a direct relation with the roman colonisation of Dacia ,with some indoeuropeans lineage from the most antique local population . His physiognomy and his way to talk gave us the feeling to be front to a man in which it was no posibility of lack of sincerity ,of unfaithfullness, of betrayal .This had also something to do with the authority that he enjoyed among his followers ,which were bond to him by a much more personal feeling than only a political feeling .
At that time ,situation in Romania was tense ,relations were hostiles between the King’s government and the Iron Guard.The climax which would end in tragedy was already on his way .At the italian embassy they had warned me that it was not prudent to see Codreanu ;the romanian authorities had expulsed on the spot other foreigners who had been in contact with him .
Of course ,I didn’t listen to it .A romanian friend acted as an intermediary .
Soon after having expressed my wish for a reunion ,two men appeared silently at my hotel to drive me to the famous “Green House” which had been build in the suburbs of
Bucarest by the mere legionnaries with their own hands .It was the headquarters of the Movement .
After they had offered me what seen to be in Romania a tradition of hospitality ; a small plate of mermelade with a cup of water , Codreanu presented himself and our talk started quickly ,with sympathy from the very firsts words .He knew about mi book “Revolt against the modern world” which had been published two years ago in a german version and was quite famous in central Europe (.....)
Among the topics of our talks ,I remember the interesting characterisation that Codreanu spoke about Fascism ,about german National-Socialism and of his own movement .He said that in any organism there is tres principles : the shape ,the vital strenght and the spirit . We have to think the same about a nation,and a movement of renewal may developp in resting more on one of these principles .According to codreanu ,the Fascism have the principle of Shape where the state have the supremacy .German national-Socialism rested more on the vital strenght : the myth of the Race and the Call for the Blood . While for the Iron Guard ,it is the spiritual element which is the starting point .By “spirit” ,Codreanu implied something with references to religious and ascetical values .
He said that it was something archaical in the romanian people and that it was needed a deep renewal from the inner of the man ,something which would go against profit ,against politicism , against the merchant way of the cities .
So his group was a movement ,not a party and he had no thrust at all to save the country from the democratical super-structures ,even if that one was backed up by the monarchy .Talking about the religious question ,Codreanu reffered to the historical situation that in a country like Romania ,the greek-orthodox Christiandom ignored the antithesis between Universalism of the Faith and the national Idea ,which was advantageous ; as a national Church ,the orthodox Church could be perfect in a renewed State in the sense of a national revolution .
For which the religious valours – which had to be misticals and even asceticals – acted like the base of the organisation of the Iron Guard .One of its sections had for name “Legion of the Archangel Michael “.Not only the prayers ,but also the fast were common pratices among them .The chiefs had to shows austerity,it was forbidden to them to show up in theaters and private parties .They were forbidden to shows richness and luxury (...)
It was also ,among the legion ,a mistical way to honor the deads.The rite of “Present !”,also praticed by the fascism , was practiced nearly in a magical rite .Mota and Marin ,two friends of Codreanu and legionnary leaders who had fallen during the spanish war ,were objects of a special cult .
We spoke of many other things .Later ,Codreanu drove me himself to my hotel ,nearly as a challenge – I remember the warning of the italian embassy – and I asked him what was the insignia of the Iron Guard ,and he showed me one .It was a small round badge ,like the ones who wear the SS when in civilian clothes ,with a kind of grey bars
on black background . I asked for the motive of the design and Codreanu answered with a grim :”Maybe those are the bars of a prison.”
This joke amounted for an ill omen .It is known what was the end of Codreanu .The knig ,seducted by his lover ,the intriguant Lupescu, and his “democratic” government under influence of the masonry and other oscure forces ,wanted to eliminate ,in a much expeditive way ,the dangerous Iron Guard which bore the sane forces of the nation ..They were mass-arrested .Codreanu too and he was murdered in the same way as Ettore Mutti ; they pretended that he had tried to escape .
But by this action ,the King had started his own fall .First came the regime of Antonescu (...) and then Romania ,which fallen with the fall of the Axis ,was forced by the Red Army to accept the actual communist regime ...”
Either if we like it or not ,this was Codreanu metaphysically .
Also two mentioned points impressed me :
“The chiefs had to shows austerity,.They were forbidden to shows richness and luxury”
Go tell that to our today democratic governments and the congressmen ....
Not only the prayers ,but also the fast were common pratices among them .
Were is the evil in it ? It wouldn’t be a bad idea today .To those who think this is an archaistic point of view , should I remember them that today ,in many countries ,under the whip of either communism ( like in Cuba...) or of the neo-liberal measures of the World Monetary Fund , many people do not eat enough .
So why not to fast voluntarily for God and Country ?
Things couldn’t be worse ....
|Posted by: Indrid April 30, 2005 07:12 am|
| i donot belive one can use the words "nationalist" and "no hatred" in the same sentence. nationalism expresses the belief of a certain group within a country that only CERTAIN PEOPLE should enjoy the best privileges, and this selection being made according to exiasting ethnic lines. If codreanu was or was not hateful in his discourse is almost useless. the fact that it made a clear distinction between memberas and non members according to certain guidelines tells enough. i do not beive there were any jews, gypsies or Hugarians in the legion. simply because the movement had NATIONAL character.
also, i have to say that i do not agree with the line imposaed by IMPERAILIst here. i agree with him on many things, however, "well-known facts" are useless in an dialogue as controversial as this one.
i also sense a line of admiration towards the movement from what t\other mebers have said before me, and in my poiny of view, not totally unjustified. the level of the romanian society these days has gone so low due to influences that are not always "romanian", ( you will understant very well what i am refferng to), but a similar movement today would be impossible and even undesirable.
also, i am not such a big fan of ethnic cleansing princples because i believe in a man's right to defend his life, not to be tied , gagged and butchered by superior numbers. that can only prove cowardice. this is when the legion started to suck for me, when it turned into a animal movement based on principles one can only see in the behavior of dogs....
a shame too, we miss a SPARTAN movement....
|Posted by: Victor April 30, 2005 08:05 am|
| Corneliu Z. Codreanu did promote hate. Horia Sima is not the one that transformed a good movement/party into a bad one. In 1923 Codreanu and his followers created a black list containing six members of the Marzescu Government, who were responisble for the law that gave citizenship to many Jews in the new provinces. He wanted to punish the Romanian "traitors" first and then deal with the main enemy - the Jews. He thought it was his mission and that of his generation to settle the "Jewish problem" in Romania. In his first parliamentary speech he stated that it was clear to him that intelligent or not, parasitary or not, moral or imoral, this population is a hostile population , here in our country. Jews were to him ruthless exploiters of the Romanian peasant that needed to be. And examples could go on. The simple fact that the Legion started the assasinations during the leadership of C. Z. Codreanu and not Horia Sima's speaks for itself about the "love and tolerance" he preached.
As I already said, IMO the article is just another atempt to whitewash the Legion of the Archangel Michael.
|Posted by: Panzermahn May 01, 2005 11:39 am|
Sources or any links to this, please?
|Posted by: vicslav May 01, 2005 02:32 pm|
| >I see no hatred on the original fundamentals of Codreanu's teaching.
"Garda de fier" was a hierarchical movement under the own authority of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu.
So, was the assassination of PM Ion Duca in december 1933 by Constantinescu, Belinace and Caranica an "act of love" ?
I don't think so.
And the assassination of Stelescu by "gardists" at hospital !
Iron Guard was a violent and antisemistic movement. Like Goga's "national-crestin" movement.
|Posted by: Victor May 02, 2005 06:12 am|
Try Corneliu Zelea Codreanu - Parlamentar by Radu Cont in the February 1999 issue of Magazin Istoric. However, it is in Romanian.
The Legion and the National Christian Party (PNC) of Goga and Cuza were different in regards of methods and ideas about the state. The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.
|Posted by: vicslav May 02, 2005 04:18 pm|
| >The PNC didn't want to change existing parliamentary system and create a "new order" or a "new man". They were also antisemites, but wanted to achieve their goals by more peaceful methods.
It's right but under the Goga's governement, a lots of violences against jews were commited.
Publication of some "jewish" newspapers like Demineata, Adevarul and Lupta was also prohibited.
And Codreanu was also a member and a disciple of Cuza's movement of LANC at the beginning.
|Posted by: dragos03 May 05, 2005 05:27 pm|
| The Legion was not formed in 1923, Victor, so i don't see the relevance of that "black list". And about the speech in the parliament, i don't see any hate in it. Codreanu was right, the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during WW1, in the areas occupied by the Central Powers.
About the murders: Duca was also a murderer and a traitor. One month before he was killed, a student (member of the Legion) was killed in Constanta without any reason by the police, on Duca's orders. 2 weeks later, thousands of members of the Legion were arrested, beaten and tortured, without any legal reason, while the Legion was ilegally outlawed. At least the criminals who shot Duca waited for the police to arrest them, they wanted to face justice for their act.
As for Stelescu's murder, it was an internal affair. The killers were his own friends and ex-comarades. Once again they waited to be arrested. Codreanu had nothing to do with these two murders.
BTW, Jewish ethnics were allowed in the Legion, if they were Christians. Only non-Christians were forbidden to join. Several Legion commanders were Jews.
By the way, Imperialist, i am still waiting for the quotes.
|Posted by: Indrid May 05, 2005 06:02 pm|
| i think imperalist has left the building...
so waiting for his answer may be futile...
|Posted by: Imperialist May 06, 2005 07:51 pm|
I'm not in a hurry to waste my time searching for well-known anti-semite quotes in Codreanu's writings. Mainly because what I expected happened. You are talking about justified hate; whatever examples I would have brought, your reply would have been "he was right". You forget that your initial statement was "there is no hate" in his writings...
Also, jews are not an ethnic group per se. They are a religious group.
|Posted by: Imperialist May 06, 2005 08:02 pm|
Temporarily I'm back.
|Posted by: dragos03 May 06, 2005 08:14 pm|
| I never said that Codreanu was not anti-semite, just that he didn't hate them. He was right in his statement in the parliament and i don't see any hate in his words.
As for the "well-known quotes", you obviously don't know them.
|Posted by: Imperialist May 06, 2005 08:28 pm|
Haha... right. I have his writings and I know the function of CTRL+F. Inserting "jidan" (a widely used term of "affection" Codreanu used) brings up plenty of quotes. So many in fact that I dont have time to browse them to find the ones that can convince you of being hateful. Especially if you start off with the idea that hatred with some truth behind is no longer hatred...
Hmm... that makes sense.
|Posted by: dragos03 May 06, 2005 11:20 pm|
|It's useless. I will ignore your posts from now on.|
|Posted by: Indrid May 07, 2005 04:42 am|
|over and over again it is proven that people cannot have a dialogue on this forum.|
|Posted by: Imperialist May 07, 2005 06:54 am|
Well, here it is, I took my time and posted this filth.
You still continue to say there is no hatred in his writings? The guy is paranoid in some of his statements too.
p.s. If we are to read and believe all nationalist paranoid statements we'd have to think Romania is long gone... strangely, its still here. And land is being sold to foreigners too. Oh my!!! We're gonna die... Too bad we have no more jews for scapegoats, we are left with our romanian politicians. Hmm, thats bad, the politicians can no longer hide their incompetence and corruption throwing it upon a minority group. Thats got to hurt! Wheres the romanian movement of outrage? Where are the mobilisations against the guilty parties? Oh well, nowhere...
People are easily stirred into magnifying and mobing against a minority's vices but are completely blind or inactive about their own group's vices.
|Posted by: Indrid May 07, 2005 07:27 am|
| well hating a ethinc group is not new. i agree that nowadays the legionair movement in romania is made up of unemployed drunkards who blame the others for their unadequacies.
it is unfortunate, we would have really needed a oposition pole to counterbalalnce the growing influence of assholes that make money out of manele, if you know what i mean.
too bad indeed there is no political, and i mean truly political, not a bunch a losers that want to imitate Hitler or whoever, that can form the basis of a efficient government. and i do not mean here nationalistic crap, we had enough of that. nationalism works for great countries, not for countries like romania.
|Posted by: Imperialist May 07, 2005 09:58 am|
I agree. And I take back saying those quotes are "filth", cause maybe somebody will be offended. I'd rather say they are part of history, but in my opinion they are outdated and simply "o porcarie".
I have nothing against them per se (they are part of another dimension and their contemporaries are agreeing or disagreeing with them as we speak, so let them sort it out, which it seems they did) but I agree that the "revival" movements are pretty kitsch and have no political value.
|Posted by: Victor May 07, 2005 07:45 pm|
The Legion wasn't formed in 1923, but Codreanu was a member of the LANC and had some followers there.
I don't think it's fair t ogeneralize and say that the Jews in Romania proved their hostility towards Romanians during the occupation in 1916-18. There were also many Romanian collaborators and traitors. There were Jewish soldiers and officers that in the Romanian army and many Jewish doctors, of whom some died, struggled with the epidemic in early 1917. I believe Cofreanu's "problem" wasn't with these Jews, but those that were not yet Romanian citizens: those in Bessarabia and Bukovina and the refugees from Russia. These certainly can't be blamed of collaboration with the Germans, simply because they weren't in Walachia in 1916-18.
|Posted by: Panzermahn May 08, 2005 10:43 am|
Not all Jews are angels and not all Legionnary members are devils. There are always bad apples in every sides in conflicts.
Legionnary Movements had its own wrongs but the fundamental teachings of it were primarily rested on Romanian patriotism and nationalism.
It might be Codreanu perceived that the Jews in Romania primarily see themselves as Jewish first than as Romanian first. Codreanu wanted Romania for Romanians and he was strongly disapproved of non-Romanians living in Romania.
It was this threat that was perceived by Codreanu which made the Jews were primarily targeted and it was that atmopshere during the early 20s in Europe
|Posted by: Chandernagore May 11, 2005 01:33 pm|
Nationalism and evil are very closely related in my book.
But maybe someone can point me toward *anything* good coming out of nationalism during the 20th century. That is : as a worthy counterbalance for the tens (if not hundreds) of millions of deads..
|Posted by: Iamandi May 12, 2005 05:47 am|
| Americans are nationalists: they are far ahead in this than eastern/comunists from past; they use more propaganda than comunists - "american way", "american dream", "american flag", etc. I want to say just: they are the only nation who obtained "good" from theyr nationalism - because USA is a dream for the rest of the world, they are the most powerful nation from Earth... For americans is good.
I'm right Chandernagore?
|Posted by: Imperialist May 12, 2005 05:55 am|
The difference between the US "nationalism" and other petty nationalisms is that the first is not conditioned in its internal development and external geopolitics by the ethnic factor, while the latter is and almost always on a small, fragmentary way.
Also, US "nationalism" serves more an idea than a national/ethnic faction.
This gives the US a lot of leverage to foment petty nationalisms and hinder the formation or encourage the dissolution of other political federations.
|Posted by: Iamandi May 12, 2005 06:14 am|
| Yes, you are right! But, the result is: USA nationalism - whatever is behind of this word, in this case - had obtained "good". Good results. And is the only country who obtained that.
|Posted by: Imperialist May 12, 2005 06:30 am|
Things are far more complex than I wrote previously, or than we can ever write here, concerning the US.
However, in my opinion the Legionary movement brought nothing useful. The fact that its ideas did not attach themselves to the romanian ethos proves that they were alien and had nothing to do with romanian patriotism or nationalism in the long run (the only way these ideas prove their worth). In the short run the Legionary movement was a reaction to the antisemite ideas and to the presence of increasing numbers of jews in Romania. Today, when there are no more or very small numbers of jews the movement is asleep or chases its "enemies" across the globe to Palestine. Whats that got to do with Romania?
Anyways, the test of history is relevant. And compared to other ideas, the legionary one failed.
|Posted by: Chandernagore May 12, 2005 07:44 am|
You are of course entitled to your opinion Iama and I cannot pretend that mine is the absolute thruth. But, to put it shortly : maybe the US is a dream for some as it was for western Europe not so long ago. Today however I fear there are much more things for me to dislike in the US than to like. I enjoy visiting the US, it's a wonderfull country with many wonderfull people. In their current state of social and political development however, I wouldn't want to live there unless the alternative is Baghdad or Mogadiccio
What good has come out of the US, I don't believe is due to nationalism. Imperialist is right and I should have been more precise. There are substantial differences between European and American nationalism. The European blend has proven far worse.
|Posted by: Jeff_S May 12, 2005 04:50 pm|
Doesn't Romania owe its existence as an independent state to nationalism? (Possibly broadly defined, but still to a sense of Romanians as being a distinct people and culture, deserving of self-determination.)
I will try to not get pulled in to the debate about American nationalism. In my opinion, in the US it has had some positive impacts and some negative (both for the US and others).
The amazing thing about American nationalism to me is how quickly some immigrants adopted it. They have barely stepped off the boat themselves, and they want to pull up the drawbridge and keep "foreigners" out. Certainly there is little of the sustained sense of "separateness" that explains (for example) Germans in Russia still being seen as "Germans" even when their family has been in Russia for 200 years. It makes it very difficult for Americans to understand nationalism based on events hundreds of years in the past -- the importance of Kosovo to the Serbs, for example.
|Posted by: Imperialist May 19, 2005 06:10 am|
That kind of nationalism has to evolve into something else or it will be the very compromiser of self-determination.
|Posted by: Imperialist June 18, 2005 04:27 am|
After recent events and a closer examination of the movement's writings, I must say I've changed my mind. Unfortunately what I wrote previously about the ethos, unusefulness and alien character, was an over-simplification.
|Posted by: Alexandru H. June 18, 2005 08:55 am|
|Imperialist, in a modern world, that is fearful of the degree of control some organism can inflict on citizens, we need as many and diverse political orientations as one can get. Communists, Anarcho-Syndicalists, Fascists, Liberals, Social-Democrats, Conservatives, Christian Democrats, Anarcho-Capitalists etc...|
|Posted by: Imperialist June 18, 2005 09:03 am|
Lets not go totally off-topic, so maybe you should not reply to this if you know its also true, but in Romania the communist party is still banned, while in Italy for example, if you read Sartori, one can see a Communist Party not only allowed, but alive and kicking in the elections.
|Posted by: mr.bluenote June 19, 2005 02:11 pm|
| It's a bit off topic, I'm tempted to say, but nonethelss fairly interesting. Americans are Patriotes, not Nationalists - in my book at least, meaning that they do love their country, their flag and what not, but are not engaged in expanding their borders to include long lost or perceived national territories, nor are they in any way basing their politics on expansionism or ethnic lines. To call the US of A imperialistic is way out of line as well, as they do not try to built empires of any kind, but spread - at times by the use of force or the threath of it, yes - a certain philosofical view that freedom is the natural state of things and human rights are universal - it's a gross simplification, but it'll do!
And now, back on topic! In regards to the Legion; Am I right to assume, that the Legion of the Archangle Michael was a political entity, whereas the Iron Guard was its paramilitary branch?
|Posted by: Alexandru H. June 19, 2005 02:19 pm|
| Actually, the Legion was the "spiritual arm" of Romanian Nationalism, whereas the Iron Guard and its following avatar, All-for-the-Fatherland Party were political parties, led not by Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, but, of course, under the strict observation and influence of the legionary movement.
If Americans are not Imperialists, who else is? ... They bought Louisiana and Alaska, they fought for Florida, Texas, California and New Mexico, they again started in the Pacific and the Carribbian (Spanish War in Phillipines and Cuba), Panama etc.. Sounds like a clear case...
|Posted by: mr.bluenote June 19, 2005 02:31 pm|
Well, you could argue that the Americans were Imperialists, but hardly call them Imperialists today. By your metode, even we Danes are nasty Imperialists today, because we kinda invaded Estonia in 13th century!
Ehm, yes, but wasn't the Legion a nationalistic political movement? And the Iron Guard a later addition? Codreanu was elected to Parliament, right? What political platform - or party if you will - did he have? The party you mention - of which I must admit I never heard of - or the Legion?
|Posted by: Imperialist June 19, 2005 02:38 pm|
Then they are an ideological empire that uses force and threats of force to spread a certain philosophical view.
Nothing new in history, we know other cases of ideologically/philosophically driven "empires".
However, the ideology turns in pragmatism. Because the ideology has to continue to survive many threats and continue to impose its universality, realist measures have primacy. Control of a given sea lane, a strategic island, the necessity of imposing a certain government in a certain place, access to resources.
Foreign idealists continue to see the philosophical/ideological part and its probable "beauty". Foreign pragmatists see the underlying feature and resent it.
Today not even the idealists argue against the US being an empire, they only add that its a benign, "good" empire. Fortunately or unfortunately, not many people are convinced of the link between that adjective and noun.
|Posted by: Alexandru H. June 19, 2005 02:45 pm|
Codreanu was elected first as part of LANC (Christian National Defense League), the party led by A.C. Cuza, the man that brought antisemtism as a political weapon in prewar and postwar Romania, then part of the other parties I mentioned. The parties were of course accessories of the Legion, but the Legion itself was not a political party, since it was not structured as one (think of it more like a brotherhood). His second party actually obtained, at the elections of 1937, the third highest number of votes, the best success of any nationalist party until 2000.
|Posted by: Imperialist November 30, 2006 08:59 am|
| Found this on the net. No date or details though.
|Posted by: Petre May 31, 2014 05:56 pm|
| Source – NET, Archive Aleksandr N. Iakovlev
Lubianka. Stalin & NKVD-NKGB-GUKR «Smerş» 1939 - 1946
Document №300/15.03.1945/№ 292/b/Top Secret
|Posted by: papanas June 02, 2014 05:56 am|
| Could you help me find some data about a relative of mine who was part of the movement? He was the brother of my great-grandfather and his name was Victor Silaghi. I found some info on the web about him but not that detaliled. I also found an obituary by Fănică ANASTASESCU in Ziarul "Cuvântul", Joi 23 Ianuarie 1941. (http://miscarea.net/geek/article.php?story=20101002174134934) (offtopic: Is there a way to get this newspaper now? i mean the one from 23.01.1941) could you point me to the right direction?
|Posted by: Petre June 02, 2014 07:08 am|
| Sorry, No.
I just pick some texts, and paste them in translated version. These can be interesting.
|Posted by: Dénes June 02, 2014 06:14 pm|
Thank you, Petre, for your continuous effort to share with us various texts. Much appreciated.
|Posted by: Petre September 26, 2014 02:56 pm|
| From two (rus) books :
Radiogram-directive, 10 March 1945 from the German inteligence Center of Vienna. The radiogram was received by agent H... The text fell in the hands of Soviet counterintelligence.
To «Bob» : The following text, signed by the leader of "The Iron Guard" Horia Sima in person, urgent to give to Petraşcu.
The Soviet organs of counterintelligence identified and arrested 179 active participants of the organization (spies, terrorists and diversionists), including 43 people from leadership…
|Posted by: Daniel Focsa September 26, 2014 03:51 pm|
Victor Silaghi, it seems I have heared about this name, but I couldn't tell where exactly.
|Posted by: papanas September 29, 2014 11:33 am|
|found out he was a lawyer and also prefect of Prahova and was asasinated in january 1941. also found a picture of him, leading a group of young legionars to a meeting in Italy.|
|Posted by: Petre May 12, 2015 03:41 pm|
| Source – NET, Archive Aleksandr N. Iakovlev
Lubianka. Stalin & NKVD-NKGB-GUKR «Smerş» 1939 - 1946
Doc. № 72 : A lesson of V.G.Nasedkin, the GULAG Chief, intended to the auditorium of NKVD High School