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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > WW2 in General > The encirclement of Army Group South at Stalingrad |
| Posted by: Marius July 25, 2004 08:13 pm |
| I want to find out more info about the 6th army under the command of Feldmarshal von Paulus during the battle of Stalingrad.
Who was de comander of the russian army there? (was he general Zukhov?) :wink: |
| Posted by: Victor July 26, 2004 08:38 am |
| Please post questions not related to the Romanian army in the Other Theaters section. |
| Posted by: Chandernagore July 26, 2004 10:17 am | ||
Almost. The 62nd army commander mutated 2 letters from Zhukov to Zhuikov to Chuikov :wink: And I think there was no "von" before Paulus. Ok it's a detail... |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu July 26, 2004 02:30 pm | ||
He was a Von, born in a aristocratic family. Besides he married a Romanian princess but i forgother name. Bm |
| Posted by: Carol I July 26, 2004 02:43 pm | ||
According to http://216.198.255.120/divisions/generals/biography_paulus.htm her name was Elena Rosetti-Solescu. |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu July 26, 2004 05:02 pm |
| Thanks for your help Carol I
Bm |
| Posted by: Carol I July 26, 2004 09:26 pm | ||
You are welcome, but Google helped a lot on this one. |
| Posted by: Chandernagore July 26, 2004 11:32 pm | ||
This is a very widespread historical error. You will find out that he didn't bear the "von". |
| Posted by: Marius July 28, 2004 08:26 am |
| In the end was he a von or wasn't he???? |
| Posted by: Carol I July 28, 2004 09:02 am | ||
It seems that he was not. |
| Posted by: Marius July 28, 2004 09:56 am |
| Ok, thanks for clearing that out for me! |
| Posted by: C-2 July 28, 2004 08:06 pm |
| Neither Wagner was a Von....
And neither "Von" Ribenthrope... |
| Posted by: Marius July 29, 2004 11:12 am |
| What is that "von" anyway? Is it a title (decoration)? |
| Posted by: Carol I July 29, 2004 12:14 pm | ||
As far as I know it is the German equivalent of the English "of" or the French "de". As in "Charles Prince of Wales" or "Edward Duke of Kent". |
| Posted by: Dénes July 29, 2004 12:55 pm |
| You're correct, Carol I.
Same situation for nagybányai Horthy Miklós, or Miklós Horthy of Nagybánya (Baia Mare).
Dénes |
| Posted by: Dénes July 29, 2004 02:12 pm |
| I just recalled that there were Transylvanian-Rumanian nobles, too. For example: George Pop de Basesti, leader of Partidului National Român, or Rumanian National Party (of Transylvania).
"George Pop de Basesti este descendentul unei familii nobiliare, fiu a lui Petre Pop de Basesti si al Susanei Pop de Turt , nascut la 1 august 1835." Dénes |
| Posted by: Carol I July 30, 2004 05:41 pm | ||
Do you happen to know when and why he received this particular title? Was he (or one of his ancestors if he inherited the title) from the area? |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu July 30, 2004 05:55 pm |
| It is off topic but since we are speaking about it... I read about a war veteran VR that he graduated the St Cyr military academy. Well, he took this name and now his family name sounds like this: Ionescu-Saint Cyr. But maybe you know about him....
Bm |
| Posted by: C-2 July 30, 2004 07:14 pm |
| Corect,he was a friend of Gen Balta.
He died last year at about 90. |
| Posted by: Dénes July 30, 2004 08:40 pm |
| I think the above case is different, as that person simply took the name of a city, and did not own extended lands there (presumably was not a noble, either). While in the cases I mentioned the nobles had their names inherited after the lands their ancestors owned (notice also de difference in their names, namely the nobles had 'of' suffix after their family names, not just a hyphen). I'd say, for example, Prince 'Bâzu' Cantacuzino could have used as a suffix to his name 'Tescani', thus 'Cantacuzino of Tescani'. But I think this practice was used only in Transylvania, not in the 'Regat'.
Dénes |
| Posted by: Carol I July 31, 2004 06:57 pm | ||||
Then it was something like the name of the Romanian actor Ştefan Mihăilescu-Brăila who was born in Brăila. Do you know why Miklós Horthy had Nagybánya (Baia Mare) added to his name? Was it his high rank in the Austro-Hungarian Army/Navy that brought him the 'von Nagybánya' or some other circumstance?
I think the origins of the noble titles are somewhat varied. In the beginning they were indeed related to the lands owned by the person, but there are many cases, especially in the modern period when the noble titles had no relationship to the possessions of the person. This is because creating noble titles remained the privilege of the sovereign even in a period when the concept of private property was establishing more strongly. Thus, the title was nothing more than an indicator of status, not of origin. |
| Posted by: Dénes July 31, 2004 11:57 pm | ||||||
No, vitéz nagybányai Horthy Miklós inherited it, as his noble ancestors had their lands around Nagybánya (Baia Mare). He was born at Kenderes, located in today's Hungary, though.
No, he received only the vitéz (literally 'brave', approximately 'knight') title for his wartime deeds.
Back then, in the XIXth Century and beyond, the noble title was still connected to land and thus to wealth. Dénes |
| Posted by: Carol I August 01, 2004 09:11 am | ||
Thanks for the answer Dénes. |
| Posted by: Der Maresal August 07, 2004 03:37 am | ||
It's a title, a 'von' belonged to a noble familly. It's the same in romanian, with 'de', such as Contele de Monte Cristo. I even heard the name 'von Hitler' - his own translator called him that..  |