Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format Forum > Western Front (1944-1945) > Armoured 23 german division in battle of Turda

Posted by: 21 inf April 07, 2012 03:27 pm

Article in hungarian language, but worth the effort translating (one can use google translator to make an idea).

Posted by: Dénes April 07, 2012 06:00 pm
Dr. Norbert Számvéber is the leading Hungarian expert on armour. His writings are very detailed, to the point and neutral (albeit often a bit 'dry'). Very recommended for the interested ones.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: ANDREAS April 07, 2012 08:20 pm
I confirm what Denes wrote about the book, is well written and rich in informations!

Posted by: Alexei2102 April 07, 2012 09:58 pm

Posted by: 21 inf April 07, 2012 10:13 pm
QUOTE (Alexei2102 @ April 07, 2012 11:58 pm)

Well, it's a "funny" translation what Google translate did, but I think one can at least make a general idea about the subject ph34r.gif smile.gif

Posted by: ANDREAS April 08, 2012 09:59 am
I always try a translation from hungarian to english /german, and also modify some composed words (military terms that I understad by now) he can't translate... It's much better that way and obviously make more sense...

Posted by: ANDREAS September 22, 2012 11:52 am
Wochenschau von 02.11.1944 (Nr 739) News Journal from German point of view -battle of Oradea but surely from images shown also from earlier battles in Central and Northern Transylvania. Wach from beginning to min. 2.39

Posted by: aidan zea September 29, 2012 04:08 pm
The 23. Panzer Division received orders on 21 september (1944) to employ elements of the divisional artillery the next day in support of the hungarian troops fighting at Ludus. Just as measures to do that were being taken new orders arrived for the employment of the entire division on 23 september to clean up a deep ennemy penetration in the hungarian positions at Thorenburg (Turda). During the night of 22/23 september the division forces occupied their assembly lines. The I./Panzer Regiment 23 (only 12 tanks combat-ready) was attached to Panzer Grenadier Regiment 126, the II./Panzer Regiment 23 (also only 12 tanks combat-ready) was attached to Panzer Grenadier Regiment 128. With PGR 126 on the right and PGR 128 on the left, the attack south was intended to throw the enemy out of the area around Thorenburg and to its east. At 07 hours in the morning Pz.IV Ausf.H and Pz.V "Panther" Ausf.G tanks with mounted infantry accompanied by armored halftrucks and several StuG-III Ausf.G assault guns advanced across Hill 453. Strong antitank defenses on the part of the soviet troops made a frontal attack impossible. Hauptmann Fischer advanced with most of his 2nd Battalion by swinging out to the left and along the rail line. His battalion eliminated enemy antitank guns in Vaskapu (??) and overrun an antitank gun belt in the grain fields north of Hill 371 before it was able to get a good field of fire. Despite all that the soviet resistance was so strong that the infantry was unable to follow. Soviet fighter-bomber joined the fray on the ground incessantly and monitored every movement. PGR 126 supported by I./PR 23 made good progress in its first rush against slight ennemy resistance. Hills 429 and 425 were both taken. But the soviet antitank gun belt oriented west and north blocked further progress. The attack bogged down with considerable losses. Hauptmann Grunwaldt the commander of the I./PGR 126 was wounded. Oberleutnant Donder of the 3./PR 23 was killed in an Panzer III Ausf.K command tank along with his crew. Advancing once again Hauptmann Lemberger's II./PGR 126 was able to penetrate the enemy positions on Hill 424, Northeast of Thorenburg (Turda) but there the attack booged down. The medical claring stations were overflowing. The medical armored vehicled of PR 23 which accompanied the attack were constantly on the go in order to transfer wounded to the field ambulances of the ambulance company. The main clearing station of the medical company in the city was already more than filled to capacity in the early morning hours especially since the soviet aircraft was constantly attacking Klausenburg (Cluj) and the main roads nearby. Evacuation of the wounded by the field ambulance company generally could only take place at night due to the soviet aircraft constant flights. The drivers of the company were almost constantly on the go on 23 and 24 september to take the wounded to the main clearing stations.

Posted by: aidan zea September 29, 2012 05:39 pm
It was not until the afternoon of 23 september that the attack of the II./PR 23 and PGR 128 reached the foot of Hill 371. In the face of a massive barrage fire comming from the soviet lines it was possible to temporary advance as far as the streep slope on the southern edge of the hill. The terrain could not be held however with the result that the main line of resistance had to be pulled back in the evening to a row of houses north of the hill. The PR 23 tanks destroyed that day 5 enemy tanks, 1 assault gun, 37 76mm antitank guns, 4 prime movers and 3 trucks.
Hauptmann Noever's PPB 51 (pioneers) fought on the right wing of the division in Thorenburg. In the course of the heavy fighting several enemy train vehicles were captured on which he crated around the results of his plunders. For the combat engineers the bars of soap were of the highest quality and a highly welcome spoils of war after they have only seen German wartime soap since summer 1943.
On 24 september PR 23 (except a Pz.IV tank company) was ordered at Ceanul Mic in order to clear up a penetration into a hungarian position west of Thorenburg. PGR 126 conducted combat patrols into the Horseshoe Woods east of Thorenburg. To the north of Thorenburg there was only localized fighting which allowed the infantry to improve their positions.
Heeres Flak Abteilung 278 assumed the mission of defending the air space over the Klausenburg area especially around the rail station.
At 17,30 in the evening the division ordered the attack of the Gruppe Major Koppe (PAA 23 (reconnaissance battalion), II./PR 23 and II./PGR 126) on Tureni and Deleni. An hour later Tureni was cleared of the ennemy While continuing the advance against increasing ennemy resistance the terrain in front of the Hill 627 which was criss-crossed by many defiles was crossed and the hill was taken by the Panther tanks under Oberleutnant Zirr command. Divisional artillery supported the attack from positions southeast of Rediul. As it turned dark elements of the PAA 23 went into position on Hill 627; contact was established with the friendly forces on the right PGR 126 in the woods south of Comsesti.
During the night the II./PGR 128 was employed on Hill 627. Two enemy infantry attacks were repulsed. The enemy started to concentrate stronger forces especially tanks and antitank guns in front of the sector. In the early morning another ennemy attack was turned back, one soviet 76mm antitank gun was surely destroyed and other two most likely. A short while later three soviet tanks were seen approaching : at a distance of 70 meters all three soviet tanks an T-34-76 an T-34-85 and a heavy IS-1 were destroyed by one Panther within 30 seconds with one round each.
At the same time the I./PR 23 was positioned in the woods south east of Feleacul while the II./PR 23 (minus Gruppe Leutnant Strecker) was prepared for operations in Ceanul Mic. Afer being relieved by hungarian forces PGR 128 (minus II.Battalion) quartered in Bojul. Despite continuing soviet aerial activity and massed artillery fires on the main line of resistance and in the division's rear area no significant casualties resulted.
In the meantime strong soviet forces penetrated trough Mediasch and into the Maros valley where they advanced far to the west. They also advanced further south. On 20 september they occupied Arad and spread out in the area Gyula and Nagyszalonta. Strong soviet forces including armor and cavalry started to concentrate south of Grosswardein where no german forces were present. Only elements of the hungarian 3rd Army were screening. They were directed to prevent the enemy from moving out of the mountain valleys to the northwest and west. To the surprise of all soldiers and officers Ju-87 dive bombers joined the fray on the ground. At the last moment they were identified as being romanian from their markings.
During the evening of the 26 september the 23. Panzer Division received orders to move to Grosswardein. The same night Major Koppe's PAA 23 (the division reconnaissance battalion) started its road march. The rest followed in the early morning of 27 september with the tracked elements being loaded on trains. While the trains with the armored vehicles rolled on the strech of rail from Klausenburg to Grosswardein and were unloaded at small railheads east of the city, the wheeled elements reached the new area of operations using the Klausenburg -Grosswardein road.

Posted by: aidan zea September 29, 2012 05:47 pm
The text posted above is taken from the book "Combat History Of The 23rd Panzer Division In World War II" by Dr. Ernst Rebentisch, Stackpole Books, 2012.

Powered by Invision Power Board (
© Invision Power Services (