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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Western Front (1944-1945) > Soviets enter Bucharest|
|Posted by: Imperialist May 15, 2009 09:50 am|
| Is the second picture from around Piata Unirii?
|Posted by: dragos May 15, 2009 11:45 am|
Nice banner: "Traiasca maresalul Stalin, genialul comandant al Armatei Rosii" (long live marshal Stalin, the brilliant commander of the Red Army)
|Posted by: Dénes May 15, 2009 01:17 pm|
| Also, notice the raised fist type salute, typical to Communists and leftists.
|Posted by: MMM May 15, 2009 01:24 pm|
|Yeah, Denes, "Noi muncim, nu gândim", right... (We work, we don't think) That actually was a slogan in 1990!|
|Posted by: Radub May 15, 2009 04:33 pm|
At least they were honest.
|Posted by: C-2 May 16, 2009 04:21 am|
| About what?
Because about the "work"......
|Posted by: dragos May 16, 2009 05:03 am|
| They silenced the only one who told the truth
|Posted by: MMM May 16, 2009 07:22 am|
| Before watching the link to Patton, I really thought for a moment you were reffering to Pătrăşcanu!
My guess is that, somehow different from nowadays, back then, most of the people there really believed in those words! Today we're much too cynical - and the "mici şi bere" strategy is working!
|Posted by: Radub May 16, 2009 08:31 am|
True... very true...
I guess they lied about one and told the truth about the other
|Posted by: MMM May 16, 2009 09:10 am|
|Some authors state that this moment (of Soviet troops parading in Bucharest) was the oficial "beginning of the end" for Romania (the royalist state, non-popular, that is). The rest seems, from our p.o.v, at least, like a story whose final we know - Petru Groza, then Gh. Gh. Dej, then Ceauşescu and finally Iliescu|
|Posted by: MMM April 08, 2013 08:38 pm|
|Hey, I've just read in a book (written by Mr. Petre Otu) that the (in)famous "Tudor Vladimirescu Division" entered Bucharest on 31.08.1944! Is it a mistake? I knew nothing about that unit entering Bucharest until now...|
|Posted by: bansaraba April 09, 2013 06:23 pm|
|Posted by: Petre April 09, 2013 06:59 pm|
| From Rus.Wiki :
On August 31, 1944, the 2nd Ukrainian Front entered Bucharest and on 3 September, on american "Studebakers" also entered the Div.Tudor Vladimirescu. When they advanced through the streets of the city, the population happily rushes out to meet them with flowers.
|Posted by: MMM April 09, 2013 07:28 pm|
Thanks, but that could be any Russian unit, AFAIK...
@Petre: thanks, as well; does the Russian wiki say which unit had the "privilege" to enter Bucharest first?
|Posted by: bansaraba April 09, 2013 08:27 pm|
|@MMM: That's the picture's caption. Anyway, they had the division's emblem on their uniforms.|
|Posted by: Florin April 10, 2013 01:28 am|
You can see the 8 story building far away, in this photo.
It is the only "new style" building in that photo, excepting the furthermost building in the right.
I am confident that it still standing, and it can offer a clue about location.
I don't think it was in "Piata Unirii / Union Square".
And my personal comment: in those days of August most civilians that were not previously in military service did not see "the grand picture" and our fate, while most veterans that happened to be back to their families (like those withdrawing from Crimea - they did not see action until August) immediately understood that we are doomed.
My grandfather said in the evening of August 23: "Don't be glad. This is not the end of the war. And we will become Communist."
(Yes, there were adult men really thinking that the war will end in those days of August...)
|Posted by: dragos April 10, 2013 06:24 am|
|The most obvious clue is the Bazaca market, so this was Bazaca street. See http://es-la.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=155085624526844|
|Posted by: Alexandru C. April 10, 2013 07:58 am|
| Interesting! Something here too, about Bazaca:
|Posted by: Petre April 10, 2013 11:00 am|
Soldiers of 703.Rifle Regiment(?) enter Bucharest
30-31 Aug. Troops from
- 6. Independent Motocycle Reg.
- 375. Rifle Div ...
then 1.Ro.Volunteers Inf.Div. named TV.
|Posted by: MMM April 10, 2013 08:19 pm|
|Again, thanks! Hopefully, the Russian side of Wiki has some contact with the truth...|
|Posted by: _Vik April 10, 2013 08:43 pm|
|Commander 703 regiment "podpolkovnik"Nesteruk Dmitri Timofeevich commited suicide 31.08.1941. OBD-memorial.ru|
|Posted by: Petre April 11, 2013 07:25 am|
|It was not only Wiki, but many Ru. sites|
|Posted by: Victor April 11, 2013 09:05 am|
What is the link to the topic? Did this happen in Bucharest ?
|Posted by: Petre April 11, 2013 12:31 pm|
|On Dec.26, 1944 The 703.Inf.Reg. (of 233.Div. of 57.Army) (pod-polkovnik M.D.Shumilin) heavy fought with 2.Brig./1.Cossak Div. of the German Army at Pitomača and Virovititsa in Yugoslavija. The cossaks almost destroyed this unit.|
|Posted by: Taz1 April 11, 2013 01:28 pm|
| An american motorcycle in Bucharest on 30.08.44 from the site :Fototeca online a comunismului romanesccota 15/1944 : http://fototeca.iiccr.ro/picdetails.php?picid=31876X6X277 maybe from the 6 independent motorcycle regiment ?
A family friend was eye withness of the entry of soviets in bucharest, soilders and vehicles full of dust. Most of the people that were on the streets trisd to be ass frendly as posible with the russians for fear and not because they had a strong simpaty for the soviets.
Regarding the data in wich soviet enter Bucharest only on 30/31 august 1944 there were some problems that soviet had to overcame especially the 6. tank army equiped largely with american sherman tanks. They had to stop first time in Roman for lack of fuel - they found in town some aviation fuel and they made a cocktail with regular gas but this overheated the engines and they had to stop frequently, and when they were close to bucharest sherman tanks trucks became
hackneyed ( because it were made out of rubber ) . This stoped most of their tanks advancing towards Bucharest for several days, new rubber trucks had to be flown from Russia. A contratack then wold be caught the soviets totally of guard, but after 23.08.44 it is fictional history .
|Posted by: _Vik April 11, 2013 04:56 pm|
They could stay at home...maybe someone forced them to go outside?When Romanians entered into Odessa-everyone stayed at home.
|Posted by: MMM April 11, 2013 07:42 pm|
Romanians entered Odessa after a siege of how many months, Vik?
|Posted by: dragos April 12, 2013 07:22 am|
There were some people genuinely friendly towards the Red Army troops entering Bucharest, such as Nicolae Ceausescu
|Posted by: Florin April 14, 2013 01:47 am|
In the first second my eyes focused on Ceausescu's hand gripping that truck rail, and I fought: "Why is that guy pointing a gun toward his temple?" (exactly in the middle of the photo).
Do you see the suit of the guy near him? It looks like an "enthusiast" from the crowd had thrown something.
Yes, there were people with leftist simpathy among the factory and workshop workers, and even among people owning their little repair shops. But they were not as many and as organized as in the countless fictional movies from the 1950's...1980's era.
That only real movie with few seconds showing a factory worker pointing a target to the soldier shoulder on shoulder to him, in August 1944, became a kind of landmark not to be missed by any director of documentaries in the Communist era, and was used by Communist propaganda to say that the workers of Bucharest really helped in active fight alongside the Romanian soldiers located in and around Bucharest. Eventually they went with audacity that far that they claimed that the regular Army helped them. The message of many artistic/fictional movies was the same. And in those days you could not find in store lemons to use them as anti-vomitive...
|Posted by: Florin April 14, 2013 02:48 pm|
Moreover, the Romanians entering into Odessa in 1941 were very clearly THE ENEMY.
The first Soviets arrived in Bucharest after several days of fighting between Germans and Romanians, and in that process the Germans bombed the Royal Palace, the National Theater etc.
It was not unrealistic for the common guy of Bucharest to assume that a German counterattack may hold Bucharest again. So I would not be surprised that for many inhabitants of Bucharest the sight of the first Soviet columns was a relief.
|Posted by: Petre April 14, 2013 06:56 pm|
| A rus.mil.dictionary, Osvobojdenie Gorodov (1985) :
Bucureşti. A fost eliberat la 31 august 1944 de trupele F.2 Ukr:
— C.5 Mc (gen.lt. tc. M.V.Volkov) cu: Bg.2 Mc (col S.D.Mironov), Bg.9 Mc (col K.F.Selezniev), Bg.45 Mc (lt.col. A.M.Ovcearov), Bg.233 Tc (lt.col N.M.Mihno);
— C.18 Tc (col I.M.Kolesnikov) cu: Bg.110 Tc (col I.F.Reşetnikov), Bg.170 Tc (col N.P.Ciunihin), Bg.181 Tc (col A.M.Nideikin), Bg.32 IMo (col M.E.Hvatov), R.1438 Au.T (lt.col A.F.Zatîlkin); unitati din Bg.22 Geniu Moto (lt.col S.I.Golukovici).
— Gr.motorizată compusă din: D.233 Trăg (col T.I.Sidorenko) si D.375 Trăg (gen.mr V.D.Karpuhin)
— C.49 Trăg. (gen.mr G.N.Terentiev),
— D.1 Inf.Vol.Rom. (col N.Cambrea);
— Bg.12 Indep. A.Tc. (col L.D.Eristov);
— Bg.54 Geniu. (col S.V.Isaev).
Unele unitati au primit denumirea onorifică Bucureşti: C.49 Trăg, D.1 desant aer. de garda (col D.F.Sobolev), D.375 Trăg, R.3 desant aer de garda (lt.col I.I.Garvart), R.572 Trăg (mr A.R.Pastuşenko), R.1241 Trăg (lt.col S.M.Martirosian), Bg.12 indep. AATc., R.458 Arunc. (lt.col V.V.Pavlov), Bg.54 Ge, Bg.20 Auto (col V.P.Cerniavskii), R.387 indep. Av.leg. (col I.T.Nakonecinîi), 714 indep. Av.leg. (mr F.F.Suşko).
În cinstea trupelor participante la luptele de la porţile Bucureştiului, la Moscova 324 tunuri au tras 24 salve de salut.
|Posted by: Petre April 16, 2013 04:10 pm|
| Some pictures. The city is Bukarest.
Nice to surf here
|Posted by: guina April 16, 2013 06:35 pm|
"Romanian population,opressed by german and romanian authorities,return home,after being liberated by ......"
|Posted by: Florin April 18, 2013 02:41 am|
14th photo from the beginning (or 7th photo starting from end): Is that a stolen "Malaxa" ? ?
|Posted by: MMM April 18, 2013 06:10 am|
NO! It says there it's a Bren Carrier. Also, from the picture, one can see the suspension system of the tracks is NOT the Malaxa type...
This does not meean, of course, that the Soviets didn't "borrow" stuff from us!
|Posted by: Petre May 16, 2013 02:47 pm|
|Posted by: Petre September 24, 2015 07:25 am|
| Google-Book : "The state security organs of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War".
Tome V, volume 2. Publisher : the FSB-Rus. Fed. Academy, Moskow, 2007.
Report from the 2nd. Ukrainean Front Command to the Sov.Union Marshal I.V.Stalin
La 31 aug.1944 au ajuns la Bucureşti generalii Susaikov şi Tevcenkov, care au primit ordin de la Consiliul Militar al Frontului să clarifice unde se află mareşalul Antonescu şi în caz că este descoperit, să fie luat sub paza noastră.
La indicaţia gen-locot. Susaikov, membru în Cons.Militar al Frontului, gen-locot. Tevcenkov a mers la Comandantul român al oraşului, general corp armată Tudorescu şi prin acesta au fost chemaţi la discuţii Ministrul de interne Petrescu şi Primarul oraşului, gen. Dombrovski.
După câteva tergiversări şi neînţelegeri, ei au declarat că Antonescu este arestat, locul unde se află nu le este cunoscut, dar există o persoană care cunoaşte asta.
După al doilea avertisment categoric al gen-locot. Tevcenkov, că conducerea militară sovietică doreşte să ştie şi să vadă unde este deţinut Antonescu, Comandantul oraşului general corp armată Tudorescu a sunat la Guvern. După ceva vreme a venit o persoană în civil, reprezentantul CC al PCR Bodnaraş Emelian, care cunoştea bine limba rusă. La întrebarea unde este mareşalul Antonescu, a răspuns că acesta din urmă se găseşte sub paza comuniştilor într-o locuinţă conspirativă.
Atunci gen-locot. Tevcenkov împreună cu Bodnaraş, cu generalul român Dombrovski, cu Comandantul sovietic al oraşului gen-maior Burenin şi cu o grupă de ofiţeri şi ostaşi sovietici pe post de gărzi, în număr de 40 oameni, au mers unde se afla arestat Antonescu.
Într-o casă mică cu două nivele la marginea Bucureştiului, la etajul de sus era deţinut mareşalul Antonescu iar la etajul de jos se aflau Mihai Antonescu, general corp armată Vasiliu, general corp armată Pantazi şi colonel Elefterescu.
Paza interioară a arestaţilor consta din 10 civili înarmaţi cu revolvere. Pază exterioară nu exista.
Gen-locot. Tevcenkov i-a declarat lui Bodnaraş că din cauza pazei slabe comandamentul sovietic ia asupra sa paza arestaţilor şi îi duce în dispozitivul trupelor proprii. La aceasta Bodnaraş a răspuns că ar fi fost bine să rămână aici arestaţii şi să întărească paza cu soldaţi sovietici.
După respingerea acestei propuneri Bodnaraş a solicitat să fie luată şi paza lor. Această solicitare a fost satisfăcută şi trei oameni ai comuniştilor români au însoţit arestaţii la noul loc. Bodnaraş a mai spus că Guvernul nu doreşte ca Antonescu să fie transferat la Moscova.
La 31 aug. orele 17, grupul de arestaţi a fost trimis la P.C. al Armatei 53, unde a rămas noaptea sub paza noastră, iar pe 1 sept. dimineaţa a fost dus la P.C. al Frontului.
(first published in "Voenno-istoriceskii jurnal" 10/1989)
|Posted by: Florin September 25, 2015 03:31 am|
| One of the very first people to be arrested in Romania by NKVD in September 1944 was a famous Romanian doctor that was member of the international team consisting of medical specialists and investigating the Polish POW's killed by NKVD and discovered by the Germans at Katyn.
Once picked up by NKVD, this famous Romanian doctor was never heard of again.
He simply disappeared.
|Posted by: adicontakt September 25, 2015 01:54 pm|
|and the name of the doctor???|
|Posted by: Florin September 25, 2015 10:43 pm|
To offer an exact answer, I have to search for it.
The good news is that you can do that, too.
|Posted by: Florin October 06, 2015 03:56 am|
The following information is from this website:
So - quote :
Recorded as a conclusion of the examination of mass graves of Polish officers in the forest of Katyn near Smolensk by leading representatives of European forensic medicine and criminology schools and other renowned university professors.
From 28 to 30 Apri1 1943 a commission composed of leading representatives of European forensic medicine and criminology schools and other renowned medical university professors conducted a scientific examination of the mass graves of Polish officers in the forest of Katyn near Smolensk.
The commission consisted of the following gentlemen:
1) Belgium: Dr. Spelers, Professor of Opthamology an the University of Gent.
2) Bulgaria: Dr. Markov, Forensic Medicine and Criminology teacher at the University of Sofia.
3) Denmark: Dr. Tramsen, Prosector at the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Copenhagen.
4) Finland: Dr. Saxén, Professor of Pathological Anatomy at the University of Helsinki.
5) Italy: Dr. Palmieri, Professor of Forensic Medicine and Criminology at the University of Naples.
6) Croatia: Dr. Miloslavich, Professor of Forensic Medicine and Criminology at the University of Agram.
7) Netherlands: Dr. de Burlet, Professor of Anatomy at the University of Groningen.
8) Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia: Dr. Hdjek, Professor of Forensic Medicine and Criminology in Prague.
9) Rumania: Dr. Birkle, Forensic Doctor of the Rumanian Ministry of Justice and first assistant at the Forensic Medicine and Criminology Institute in Bucharest.
10) Switzerland: Dr. Naville, Professor of Forensic Medicine at the University of Geneva.
11) Slovakia: Dr. Subik, Professor of Pathological Anatomy at the University of Bratislava and Slovakian Chief of State Public Health Works.
12) Hungary: Dr. Orsós, Professor of Forensic Medicine and Criminology at the University of Budapest.
Also present during the inspection and deliberations were
1. Dr. Buhtz, Professor of Forensic Medicine and Criminology at the University of Breslau. He was authorized by General Headquarters of the German Army to be in charge of the excavations in Katyn.
2. Dr. Costedoat, Medical Inspector, ordered to be present during the inspection of the Commission by the head of the French Government.
The discovery of mass graves of Polish officers in the forest at Katyn near Smolensk that was recently brought to the attention of German authorities has caused Dr. Conti, the State Health Leader, to invite the above mentioned specialists from several European countries to come to Katyn to examine the site and help with the clarification of this unique case.
[ . . . . . . continued . . . . . . ]
|Posted by: Petre October 07, 2015 07:45 am|
| The story of the doctor
and another picture...
|Posted by: Florin October 08, 2015 02:06 am|
Thank you for the link with the interview, Petre.
Very interesting - I read it all, from start to end.
He missed with only 2 years the final countdown of the Communism in Eastern Europe.
In 1987 nobody could have reasonable hopes that the fall of the European Communism will be so fast - in spite of the fact that there were continuous "troubles" in Poland.
|Posted by: Imperialist October 27, 2015 08:55 pm|
|Does anyone know of any written accounts of the Soviets entering Bucharest? Preferrably from a non-ideological source (personal diary or memoirs rather than a newspaper or magazine).|
|Posted by: Petre November 02, 2015 11:57 am|
|Posted by: Petre August 01, 2016 07:38 am|
|Posted by: Petre August 16, 2016 08:04 am|
| The Directive No.220201 from Stavka of the Supreme Command to the Comanders of the 2nd and 3rd Ukrainean Fronts concerning the troops crossing through Bucarest. One copy to the Stavka Representative.
30 august 1944 20.15
Stavka of the Supreme Command orderes :
1. Comandantului Frontului 2 Ucr. - la 10.00 / 31.08 intraţi cu trupe în Bucureşti. Nu reţineţi trupe în oraş, iar după trecerea prin oraş treceţi la îndeplinirea misiunilor stabilite prin prin Directiva Stavka No. 220191, căutând să ocupaţi cât mai repede posibil raionul Craiova. La trecerea trupelor prin Bucureşti aveţi în aer deasupra oraşului cât mai multe avioane posibil.
2. Comandantului Frontului 3 Ucr. - Detaşamentul motorizat al A.46 care intră în Bucureşti îl trimiteţi la Giurgiu, cu misiune să ocupe trecerile peste flv. Dunărea în raionul Giurgiu până la sfârşitul zilei 31.08.1944.
3. Acordaţi atenţie ordinii şi disciplinei la trupele care trec prin Bucureşti.
4. Raportaţi despre dispoziţiunile date.
Stavka of the Supreme Command,
I. Stalin, A. Antonov