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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Western Front (1944-1945) > The Romanian Forces in the West|
|Posted by: Alexandru H. November 07, 2003 02:57 am|
|Is it true that Romania was the fourth Allied power regarding size of armed forces? How many soldiers did it deploy? Is is true that France, Canada or Australia had more men in Europe in the same timeline (1944-1945)?|
|Posted by: dragos November 11, 2003 11:38 am|
| Free France numbered in 1944 some 400,000 military (including former Vichy troops), but only about 100,000 fought in Italy and an even a smaller number played a role in liberation of France. Canada sent to Europe starting from 1939 3 infantry divisions, 2 armored divisions and 2 armored brigades. Australia had no division in Europe, the last division to serve in the Middle East, 9th AIF division, being withdrawn to Pacific theatre after the battle of El Alamein.
In the Western campaign Romania engaged in fight 538,536 military, of which 169,822 were casualties (21,035 dead, 90,344 wounded, 58,443 missing). This places Romania on the fourth place of any country fighting for Allied coalition in Europe during 1944-1945, after Soviet Union, USA and United Kingdom. This statement was also broadcasted by Radio London on 7 January 1945.
|Posted by: Benoit Douville January 31, 2005 07:42 pm|
| Talking about the Romanian Forces on the Western Front, in which Battle Romania had the most soldiers?
|Posted by: dragos January 31, 2005 09:04 pm|
| The participating efectives in the Western Campaign on regions are:
in Romania - 265,735 troops
in Hungary - 210,006 troops
in Czechoslovakia - approx 248,000 troops
|Posted by: Florin February 03, 2005 12:37 am|
After the Americans and the British liberated France, the French sent troops to fight with Wehrmacht at the border with Germany. The German 27th Army was the only ground unit faced by the French at the border. This German 27th Army, entrenched in the Black Forest Mountains, kept the French at the border until the end of April 1945!
When the French eventually broke through, in May 1945, did not matter too much.
I think something more important was done by the French in Italy: they and the Polish troops were the soldiers who broke the German lines at Monte Cassino, and forced the Germans to start their retreat toward the north of Italy.
|Posted by: mabadesc February 03, 2005 03:29 am|
I guess the French Army didn't have much luck against German troops in the past century.
Not in 1870-'71, not in 1940, not even in 1914-1918 if it weren't for the help of the British, the Canadians, and the Americans.
|Posted by: Benoit Douville February 06, 2005 01:31 am|
You are absolutely right. The French Army was supposed to be the best Army between World War I and World War II according to some Historians, well it was probably the most overated Army ever!
|Posted by: John March 13, 2010 01:12 pm|
These statements are inaccurate in a couple of regards. The French forces fought on three separate fronts in France -- the Alps, against the German fortresses on the Atlantic coast, and in Alsace.
There was no German 27th Army on the western front. It was the 19th Army. The Germans entrenched themselves in the Vosges Mountains (not the Black Forest), out of which they were driven by November 1944. The Germans held on to a bridgehead over the Rhine centered on Colmar (the Colmar Pocket) which was cleared by early February 1945.
The French 1st Army crossed the German border in March 1945 and by the end of April, had taken the cities of Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, and Ulm. During the 1944-45 campaign, they accomplished some noteworthy operational victories, including forcing the Belfort and Saverne Gaps, the destruction of the IV Luftwaffe Korps near Mulhouse, the liberation of Strasbourg, and the encirclement of the XVIII SS Korps in the Black Forest. The truth is that the French 1st Army was among the best field armies the Allies had in the 1944-45 campaign.
|Posted by: Matasso May 05, 2010 08:06 pm|
| Just a couple of complementary info on the French in late WW2.
The French 1st Army, part of the US 6th Army Group had in late 1944 over 300 000 soldiers and there were over 100 000 more on the secondary Alps and Atlantic Coast Fronts. There were not more, because the US forced the French to organise support and Logistic tail troops alongside their lines and it took from the front a great deal of soldiers.
As for combat records, the fench opened the way to Rome in 1944, they took almost alone the ports of Toulon and Marseille in less than 2 weeks after the landing in Provence on 15th August 1944 when the plan stated for a capture in D+45, they fought alongside US troops up to Austria in 1945. Not that bad.
As for an earlier remark, and just to pick up the fight, fortunately for the Allies the French were there in World War 1.
|Posted by: General September 19, 2010 11:10 pm|
| I have done some search (maybe not enough) but still couldn't find more about the structure of the romanian forces which had taken part to the western campaign. The only exception I've found on the structure is very scarced: 1st Army (4th Corps and 7th Corps) and 4th Army (2nd Corps and 6th Corps). Nothing about divisions, reserves, other units. Could like someone, please, help me on this matter ?
|Posted by: Dénes September 20, 2010 05:29 am|
The use of "Western Campaign" in an English language forum is not recommended, as it might confuse non-Rumanian readers. I would suggest rather "Anti-Axis Campaign", for example.
|Posted by: Victor September 20, 2010 07:08 am|
Could you be more specific regarding the months of 1944/45 you are interested in?
|Posted by: General September 20, 2010 12:30 pm|
|Well, in fact my curiosity concerns especially the jan.-may 1945 period. But I would like, also, to find out the facts from august-dec. 1944 period.|
|Posted by: General September 20, 2010 12:35 pm|
|All I did was to repeat the title of the topic, just a little modified. That's why I believe this title should be changed first. Otherwise, I have no problem. For the future I will call it anti-Axis campaign.|
|Posted by: General September 24, 2010 12:21 pm|
|Well, thank you for your answer.|
|Posted by: Victor September 24, 2010 01:30 pm|
The list you asked for means time spent by someone compiling and writing it down. Given that this is not part of most of the members' job descriptions or family-related priorities, it should not come as a surprise to you that the answer will not be immediate. Usually there is more time for such an activity during weekends.
However, being too sarcastic (not to say rude) will surely diminish the possibility of someone taking some time from one's everyday life and compiling the information you seek.
|Posted by: General September 24, 2010 06:29 pm|
|Sorry, I believed you forgot me. I'll wait.|
|Posted by: Victor September 25, 2010 05:43 am|
| First of all there was no fixed OoB during the entire campaign. It changed from operation to operation as the situation required it, with divisions being assigned to one corps or the other (as you know there were 2 corps in each army during the 1945 campaign) or even to Soviet corps. Also, Soviet units were assigned to Romanian corps for some operations.
In January 1945, the 4th Army was deployed for the Roznava Operation in this manner:
- 2nd Corps: 9th Infantry Division, 3rd Dorobanti Regiment (from the 11th Infantry Division), the 30th and 31st Pioneer Battalions and the Soviet 54th Fortification Sector
- 6th Corps: 6th, 18th and 21st Infantry Divisions, 2nd and 3rd Heavy Artillery Regiments, the Soviet 680th AT Regiment and the Soviet 324th Katyusha Regiment.
The bulk of the 11th Infantry Division was held in reserve.
The Romanian 3rd Infantry and 8th Cavalry Divisions were subordinated to the Soviet 51st Corps, neighboring the Romanian 6th Corps.
For the operations in the Javorina Mountains, in February 1945, the 1st Army's 4th Corps was reunited with the 7th Corps (which had fought since November in the operation for the conquest of Budapest):
- 4th Corps: 2nd and 3rd Mountain Divisions, 2nd Infantry Division
-7th Corps: 10th and 19th Infantry Divisions, 9th Cavalry Division, 1st and 7th Heavy Artillery Regiment.
|Posted by: General September 25, 2010 05:13 pm|
|Thank you very much for your answer and sorry again. I have no excuse, but I have an explanation. Just a few day before asking to you for information I had one annoying experience. I sent a message to the 'World Rank Insignia' site to make some corrections to the Romania Kingdom plate. I put in attachment pictures, plates, everything that was necesarry. No answer. I've written them again. They finally answered and invoked a hard disk problem and invited me to send them again the plates. So I did. I've asked them to confirm they've received my message. Days have gone by and no answer. Then I've got the sensation I am talking to one. Now I come back to topic. I've read somewhere that the 1st Cavalry Division was a part of the 4th Army in the first half of 1945. Is this true ? Thank you again.|
|Posted by: Petre February 15, 2013 09:14 am|
| I can no longer find a text about a romanian general (High Comander), sayng (somethihg like this) :
"- Mai baieti, luati-o mai usor, nu vedeti ca astia vor sa termine ?!... Nemtii si asa sunt pierduti ... Vreti sa nu aveti cu cine sa va mai intoarceti in tara ?..."
Also I really can not remember who was the person.
|Posted by: Florin February 16, 2013 03:42 pm|
Something less known is that during the two world wars all French governments and all French parliaments approved any money requested by the leadership of the French Army.
When things did not work well, it was not due to lack of financial resources.
|Posted by: Petre June 11, 2013 06:21 pm|
| General Nicolae Dascalescu and the West Front :
|Posted by: Taz1 June 20, 2016 01:27 pm|
|A question regarding the romanian army operations on the west front. Many romanians veterans told about the germans lacking ammo for the tank guns and using them to ram the romanian and russian vehicles and tanks in the last days of the war. It is true or only a myth ?|
|Posted by: Cantacuzino June 20, 2016 08:56 pm|
It is true germans lacking ammo for the tank guns in the last month of war.
It is not true using tanks to ram the romanian and russian (vehicles or tanks).
But for sure they used better tactics to avoid ammo consuming without results.
One example is related by romanian ww2 tank veteran in his memories book.
"...In one night romanian light tanks were passing (in line, one after one)a bridge to enter in a village ( western front) . A single german Tiger suddenly apperead from a corner and made only one shot. Three romanian tanks were on fire after the german shell hit them . The romanians were finally conquered the village but that Tiger run away without fighting anymore...."