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WorldWar2.ro Forum > Eastern Front (1941-1944) > Crimean Campaign Discussion & Pictures


Posted by: mabadesc April 23, 2007 03:15 pm
I thought it would be interesting to use this thread in discussing German and Romanian participation in the Crimean Campaign. We could also use this place to post pictures relevant to this conversation.

I'll start the discussion by posting an interesting picture (it's actually a freeze-frame from a propaganda clip). It was taken during the Romanian troop parade in Sevastopol, shortly after the city was conquered in the summer of 1942.
What makes the picture interesting, in my opinion, is that it portrays many of the Romanian Commanding Officers who participated in the Crimean battles up to that point.
Namely, I think I have identified several officers, but if I made a mistake or if you happen to recognize another officer not "labeled" by me, please point it out in this topic.

A notable absence is Korne, although I think he may be the third officer from the right (it's difficult to tell due to the angle as well as to the poor quality of the frame).

Please let me know if you cannot see the picture.

http://imageshack.us

Posted by: Dénes April 23, 2007 05:01 pm
The officer in black, in centre, appears to be an Italian one.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: Victor April 23, 2007 06:37 pm
Personally I believe that the only person that can be identified in this photo is Avramescu.

The others are just wild guesses. FOr example, IMO, the person identified as Mociulschi isn't him. His physical features are different. He appears to wear a staff badge and Mociulschi hadn't been through the military academy. Plus he is wearing the berret on the left side, while I have only seen photos of Mociulschi wearing it on the right side

Posted by: mabadesc April 23, 2007 09:16 pm
QUOTE
The others are just wild guesses.


Victor, perhaps you are right.

Yet, there were not too many Romanian generals in Crimea in the summer of 1942. And from what I could see (I may be wrong), the officers I identified in the picture are generals.

So who could they be? It's not like we're guessing from 20 million people, they can only be from a select handful of general officers - especially the ones wearing the "Vinatori de Munte" beret.

With respect to Baldescu - IMO it does look like him, but yes, it is a guess. Maybe Dragos03 can help confirm or infirm his identification.

And the one on the right edge of the frame does look like Dumitrache - once again, no proof here.

Are they guesses? Sure, that's precisely the reason I posted the picture. But I certainly wouldn't say they are wild guesses.

QUOTE
The officer in black, in centre, appears to be an Italian one.


Denes, thanks for your comment.

Take care, guys.








Posted by: mabadesc April 24, 2007 01:30 am
This may actually spark a potentially interesting discussion. Upon referencing the book "Romanii in Crimea" by Adrian Pantea and Eftimie Ardeleanu, here are the Romanian General Officers with active commands in Crimea in June-July 1942:

Participating in the Sevastopol area:

General Gheorghe Manoliu - 4th Mountain Division
General Constantin Vasiliu-Rascanu - 1st Mountain Division
General Leonard Mociulschi - Deputy Commander, 1st Mountain Division
General Radu Baldescu - 18th Infantry Division
General Gheorghe Avramescu - Mountain Corps

In addition, one may consider that the senior officers of the 7th Corps, though operating in the Kerch area (not in the Sevastopol area), may have participated in the Sevastopol troop parade as well, due to their indirect but nonetheless important contributions. These commanders are:

General Florea Mitranescu - 7th Corps
Colonel Corneliu Carp - 8th Cavalry Division
General Sava Caracas - 10th Infantry Division
General Carol Schmidt - 19th Infantry Division

I'm not aware of any other Romanian generals holding active command in Crimea during the June - Early July 1942 time frame.

Therefore, one may conclude that the generals depicted in the freeze-frame shown in my previous message likely belong to the two groups listed above, with a special emphasis on the first group, since these officers actively fought in the Sevastopol area.

Given this data, it seems that my identification (educated guess) of Dumitrache was wrong, since he held no command in the sector at that time (as far as I know - please correct me if I'm wrong).
The identification of Trestioreanu may also be incorrect, for the same reason.

As to the rest of the generals in the picture, there is no positive identification of them, but chances are that most, if not all of them, are among the two groups of names listed above.

Thoughts? Opinions?

If anyone can add to the list of active Romanian generals in Crimea during June - Early July 1942, please do so, as I may be inadvertently omitting some.

Thanks.

Posted by: Victor May 06, 2007 10:11 am
IMO, the person you identified as Mociulschi is Gheorghe Manoliu.

They wear the beret on the same side and have the Military Academy badge
user posted image

Posted by: mabadesc May 07, 2007 04:50 pm
QUOTE
IMO, the person you identified as Mociulschi is Gheorghe Manoliu.


It's quite possible, indeed. Here are two other frames from the same parade, slightly different angle.

Also, please note the German officer in the center of the picture. Can you make out his identity or at least his rank? Thanks...

http://imageshack.us


http://imageshack.us

The second officer from the left - moustache, square face, resembles the pictures I've seen of General Baldescu.


Posted by: mabadesc June 14, 2007 04:35 am
Crimea, summer 1942. Hospital beds of an infirmary serving Romanian soldiers, improvised in what looks like a church alcove.


http://imageshack.us



Posted by: isumalan July 04, 2007 01:16 pm
QUOTE (mabadesc @ April 23, 2007 03:15 pm)
I thought it would be interesting to use this thread in discussing German and Romanian participation in the Crimean Campaign. We could also use this place to post pictures relevant to this conversation.

I'll start the discussion by posting an interesting picture (it's actually a freeze-frame from a propaganda clip). It was taken during the Romanian troop parade in Sevastopol, shortly after the city was conquered in the summer of 1942.
What makes the picture interesting, in my opinion, is that it portrays many of the Romanian Commanding Officers who participated in the Crimean battles up to that point.
Namely, I think I have identified several officers, but if I made a mistake or if you happen to recognize another officer not "labeled" by me, please point it out in this topic.

A notable absence is Korne, although I think he may be the third officer from the right (it's difficult to tell due to the angle as well as to the poor quality of the frame).

Please let me know if you cannot see the picture.

http://imageshack.us

I oferr for you this suggestive link :
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=414107490&size=l


for you ; goroon

Posted by: mabadesc July 05, 2007 05:51 am
Isumalan,

I was only able to find one page of text on the web address you mentioned.
Could you please post the pictures you have of Romanian troops? Thanks.

Posted by: mabadesc December 31, 2007 03:46 am
Hand-painted (watercolor) table place-holder for military banquet held in Crimea, 1942.

Author signature illegible: Lt. S. Horatiu (?) or Haratim (?)

Does anyone know if the green symbol in the upper-right corner has any significance?

Front Cover:

http://imageshack.us


Inside page (menu):

http://imageshack.us

Posted by: Sturmpionier December 31, 2007 10:11 pm
Happy New 2008 Year dear collegues reenactors!!!!

Posted by: Cantacuzino January 01, 2008 10:15 am
QUOTE
Does anyone know if the green symbol in the upper-right corner has any significance?



I believe is the mountains troops symbol badge .


Happy new year to all of you ! wink.gif

Posted by: mabadesc January 01, 2008 10:46 pm
QUOTE
I believe is the mountains troops symbol badge .


Thanks for the answer, Cantacuzino!

Posted by: Victor January 02, 2008 06:37 pm
The fir tree branch was used as a symbol of the mountain troops. Some battalions had a fir tree branch on their 7 year service badge.

Posted by: mabadesc January 02, 2008 08:05 pm
QUOTE
The fir tree branch was used as a symbol of the mountain troops. Some battalions had a fir tree branch on their 7 year service badge.


Thanks for the answer, Victor. It helps clarifies things.

At first, due to the fir tree, I thought it may have been an invitation for a Christmas banquet. However, the contents of the menu indicate a summer-time meal - green lettuce salad, cauliflower, etc.

Overall, an odd, yet interesting glimpse into the past (Crimea, 1942).

Posted by: Petre November 21, 2014 12:19 pm
Source Axis History Forum :
(It seems it carryes the translator's style)

Proclamation issued by general Erwin Jaenecke before the final phase of the battle for Crimea (the battles around Sevastopol) :

"Soldiers of the 17th Army, the Fuhrer ordered us to defend the Sevastopol fortress and, by doing so, trusted us with a very important and serious mission. Our mission has a huge importance.
The enemy made the mistake of taking powerful forces and an overwhelming number of tanks from the important points of the Eastern front to send against Crimeea. This superior force succeded to break through our overextended front at Sivash, after a hard battle. The quick redeployement of our Army at Sevastopol succeded in stopping the enemy, forcing them to assault again against our determined defence, causing them terrible losses, they lost 602 tanks between 8 and 23 April. Everything they lose here they will lack in their Western offensive against the heart of Romania.
The actions of the brave German and Romanian soldiers here in Crimeea, through faithfull duty and bravery, serve a greater purpose.
The harder the enemy will struggle to conquer Sevastopol, the safer our country will be, shielded by our actions.
We are all aware of the tough battle that lies ahead. The Fuhrer will help us with weapons and reinforcements. But our strongest force is our interior force, the determination and unity proved by us in hundreds of battles in the Caucasus, Kuban and Crimeea, all of us, Germans and Romanians, ground forces, airforce and navy.
Our motto is: "No step back!". Victory is ahead while death lies backwards. We will stay here as long as the Fuhrer orders us, in this critical spot of the titanic battle. Whoever will try to leave this mission, who will leave his post, those responsible of the limited combat strength of our army, will be executed.
Let the Soviets come, they will be destroyed. Let their tanks advance, if you infantrymen cannot stop them, let them enter our positions, they will be easier destroyed there.
Every man able to hold a weapon will be sent to the front.
All the reserves are ordered to work day and night to fortify the positions in depth.
The 17th Army fights now in a place where thousands of our brave troops offered an example. We will succeed in our mission, like they did, for our country!
Long live the Fuhrer !
Long live his Majesty King Mihai !
Long live Marshall Antonescu !"

General Jaenecke, Sevastopol, 24 April 1944

Posted by: Florin November 23, 2014 04:59 am
Something that I mentioned few years ago, it does not hurt to repeat.
When the end was near, the German pioneers built a railroad ending at the edge of a cliff, then the remaining wagons were pushed into the abyss that was near the cliff. The last to be pushed there were few wagons with fuel, then they set everything on fire.
They had thrown so much food and chocolate near the beach, in order to not be captured, that the water near the seashore changed its color.
The soldiers were allowed on the evacuation vessels only with their clothing (the lucky ones who could get evacuated). No backpack was allowed.
Among other things from his backpack, my grandfather left behind a good pair of binoculars. This really hurt me to hear in my childhood, when I wanted to have binoculars but that never happen (in those days).
Regarding :
QUOTE
Let the Soviets come, they will be destroyed. Let their tanks advance, if you infantrymen cannot stop them, let them enter our positions, they will be easier destroyed there.

In some instances when groups of Soviet tanks punched deep behind the first lines of defense, the situation was rescued by groups of German motorcycles having the "passengers" firing with Panzerfaust.

Posted by: Petre November 23, 2014 10:04 am
QUOTE (Florin @ November 23, 2014 04:59 am)
the remaining wagons were pushed into the abyss that was near the cliff. The last to be pushed there were few wagons with fuel, then they set everything on fire.
They had thrown so much food and chocolate near the beach, in order to not be captured, that the water near the seashore changed its color.

From a russian book "Crimeea liberation..." :
Such a demolition was made at Inkerman. A huge cemetery of crushed locomotives and wagons remained there till 1948...
And from a book of Paul Karel...
... all the horses were killed and thrown into the sea. Thousands of dead horses were floating, rocking by sea waves... Romanians did their job with MGs...

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