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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Romanian Royal Navy > Soviet destroyer Moskva|
|Posted by: U260diver September 15, 2005 08:49 pm|
| Hello List,
Is there somebody who can provide me with more infromation about the Soviet destroyer Moskva sunk on 26 June 1941.
Every information about this ship is welcome.
|Posted by: dragos September 15, 2005 09:52 pm|
|See the topic http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1278|
|Posted by: U260diver September 16, 2005 08:20 am|
| Many thanks Dragos for the link,
The 8x AA MG's was that 20mm? And do you have any idea what kind of torpedo's the Moskva has used?
|Posted by: Victor September 16, 2005 05:32 pm|
| Flotilla leader Moskva, according to Weyers Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten XXXIV Jahrgang 1940:
Displacement: 2895 tons
Length: 140 m
Width: 13.7 m
Drought: 3.7 m
Top speed: 36.3 knots
Main guns: 5 x 131 mm L55
AA artillery: 2 x 75 mm L30, 2 x 37 mm
Torpedo tubes: 6 x 533 mm
Here are photos from the same source:
|Posted by: U260diver September 19, 2005 11:08 am|
| Thanks Victor for the info,
I found this also about the Moskva, maybe is also interesting for you...
Project 1 / Leningrad Class
These destroyer were designated as 'Leader'. Three ships were built (1 operated in the Baltic and 2 in the Black Sea). Three more ships of the succeeding Minsk class were nearly identical. The armament of 45mm AA guns was replaced by the 37mm type in 1941.
Leader "Moskva" was laid down 29 Oct 1932 at Nikolayev; launched 30 Oct 1934; commissioned 8 October 1938; operated in the Black Sea.
The war has found "Moskva" in Sevastopol. June 25, 1941, according to the order of Glavkom, the Black Sea fleet has begun performance of operation on drawing impact on Constance - port and main base of the Romanian fleet.
At 9 o'clock in the evening the leaders of "Kharkov" and "Moskva" send from Sevastopol. In area of a beacon on Chersonesus cape leaders with speed of 28 knots were directed on Odessa (for a deceit of air investigation of the opponent). With approach of darkness at 21.15 leaders have changed a rate and were directed to Constance - to the main port of Romania.
In the agreed time - 5.00 - the leaders have turned on a rate 221° and have increased a course up to 26 knots. In two minutes the ships send in a point of turn on a battle rate and have developed a course of 28 knots. The leader "Moskva" and leader of "Kharkov" has opened fire of main calibre - shooting from all of five guns of the ship with an interval per 10 seconds. Fire was conducted without updating, but after the first shots on a coast there was a flame of the large fire in area of petroleum tanks.
At 5.04 answer-back fire on the leaders was opened poorly distinct in morning on a background of a coast 2 Romanian destroyers. The Romanian destroyers slowly moved on north. At 5.06 on the head leader have noticed two cannon flares of 280-mm of the coastal artillery battery "Tirpic".
"Moskva", having stopped at 5.12 artillery fire and having put a smoke, sharply has turned on a rate of a leaving. The unexpected turn of the leader has brought down aim shooting of the opponent. Behind of "Moskva" the zigzag went the leader of "Kharkov".
At 5.20 from the ships have noticed a trace of two torpedos going directly on "Moscow". From "Kharkov" have transferred to "Moskva" an order to increase speed and to go directly.
But in one minute at the moment of evasion from torpedos to the right above "Moskva" the pole of water has risen, of fire and smoke on height more than 30 meters (are higher than masts). The ship has remained without movement. 76-mm the gun continued shooting on the appeared plane of the opponent.
At once after explosion the following picture was presented. The plating and set of the case in area of 1-st and 2 boiler branches from the left board were destroyed. The ship gone almost 30-central speed, began to break in the middle.
Cracked in area of 1-st boiler branch a forward part by a flow of water has turned to a forage of the ship. Running cabin, first pipe and one mast have appeared in water. The sinking forward part of the ship carried away behind itself and fodder. The ship has remained without movement, but his machines still worked, and the left screw some time rotated in air.
In two minutes after explosion the forward part of the case has come off and quickly has sunk. Fodder still floated on a surface, and the people were on battle posts. The immersing of a fodder part quickly proceeded, and the assistant of the commander of the ship has submitted a team to leave the ship. Have given back the order to lower boats and have transferred on battle posts an order by all upward.
Time for a stop of machines of the ship any more did not remain. The crew of "Moskva" has left the sinking ship. So, the first fight of the leader "Moskva" in the World War II became for him and last.
There are some versions of the reasons of destruction of the leader "Moskva". The basic version of destruction of the ship - having undermined on the Romanian mine.
The second leader - "Kharkov" - has stopped in 200 metres and has begun rescue of crew of "Moskva". But because of bombardment of enemy coastal artillery and attack of aircraft it was compelled to refuse this attempt.
By evening 14 Romanian boats and the hydroplanes have picked up from water 69 men (7 officers and 62 sailors). The commander A.B. Tuhov in a unconscious condition has got in captivity.
The commanders of the ship were the captain 3 ranks A.I. Zubkov (since 10.08.1938), captain 3 ranks V.N. Eroshenko, captain-leytenant A.B. Tuhov (February, 1941 - 26.6.1941).
Builder: Nikolayev Yard
Displacement: 2,693 tons full load
Speed: 42 knots
Dimensions: 127.5 x 11.7 x 4.2 m
Propulsion: 66,000 shp; 3 boilers; SR geared turbines; 2 shafts
Range: 2,100 miles (20 knots)
Guns: 5 x 1 130mm B-13-2s cal 50
2 x 1 76mm 34-K cal 55
4 x 1 37mm cal 46
Ect. armament: 2 x 4 533-mm torpedo tubes N-7
6 x 1 7.62 machine guns
84 mines "1926" type
|Posted by: dragos September 20, 2005 07:21 am|
| U260diver, see this topic about the naval engagement of 26 June 1941, in which Moskva was sunk. It is weird because Romanian sources do not mention any airplane having launched torpedos. The cause of sinking is believed to be the collision with a mine of the Tuzla barrage.
|Posted by: U260diver September 28, 2005 05:41 am|
| Hi list,
dragos, thanks for the reaction. For me is the whole Moskva story new, but indeed i think that a mine is in my eyes also the cause of sinking. Finaly when i will find the wreck and can make dives on it i hope to figure out what finaly the cause of sinking was.
I saw that the Tirpitz batterie shoot also on that day, do you have a idea what the firing range was of this batterie?
|Posted by: U260diver September 28, 2005 06:05 am|
| dragos, do you maybe have more photo's from the:
Moskva - crew - Commander
Voroshilov (F. S. Markov)
Soobrazitelnii (S. S. Volkov)
Smishlenii (V. P. Veppers)
Tirpitz coastal battery
|Posted by: Victor September 28, 2005 02:26 pm|
|For photos from NMS Marasti see this topic: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1340|
|Posted by: dragos September 28, 2005 03:48 pm|
If they were naval 28-cm SK L/45 guns as suggested http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=624, the maximum range was 28,500 m according to http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/eisenbahngeschutze-R.htm.
|Posted by: Carol I October 12, 2005 07:47 pm|
| Browsing on the net I have found an article form a Constanţa daily regarding the sinking of the Soviet destroyer Moskva: http://www.hotnews.ro/pp_articol_4300-Enigma-epavei-distrugatorului-Moskva.htm (in Romanian only). It quotes a researcher (Ioan Damaschin) who claims that according to new Soviet documents the Moskva might have been sunk by the Soviet sub Sutka-206 (obviously by mistake).
The article also mentions that the wreck of the Moskva has aroused the interest of several diving parties, both civilian and military. Of the private companies, the daily names http://www.divingdelphi.ro/index2.htm of Constanţa.
U260diver, you may want to get in contact with them for details about the diving sites in the Black Sea (on their site they have a map with interesting diving sites).
|Posted by: U260diver October 23, 2005 06:53 pm|
| Hi Carol 1,
Many thanks for this interesting article, i know the guys from Delphi. But i found a better address, http://www.aquarius-diving.ro
Be sure i will find and explore this wreck, if there is more information always welcome!
Again many thanks...
|Posted by: Carol I October 23, 2005 07:25 pm|
|I had no idea that Delphi and Aquarius are one and the same. But given the fact that I have no experience on diving, I hope I may be forgiven. Good luck with your explorations.|
|Posted by: U260diver October 23, 2005 07:31 pm|
| No, Aquarius is me! And delphi is somebody else.
Np, but i will be the first who will find the wreck
|Posted by: Carol I October 23, 2005 07:39 pm|
Then we will be looking forward for your pictures. Good luck! (Do you divers have any particular wish like the actors' "Break a leg."?)
|Posted by: U260diver July 02, 2006 10:14 pm|
| Hi list,
I saw somewhere on this forum a picture with survivors from the Moscva, is there a possibility that there are more photo's from the survivors?
And is it known were that photo is made (exact location) ?
And again when somebody has some information about this ship or other ships who were involved during this battle, pls. react. It will be of great value!
|Posted by: dragos July 02, 2006 10:21 pm|
| The photo was posted here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1179
It looks it was made on board of a Romanian ship.
|Posted by: Petre April 29, 2009 08:12 pm|
| There are some versions of causes of the sunk of "Moskva". According to one of them ( Ru source ), it has received a torpedo from the Sov.Sub. "Sch-206". Its commander did not know about operation against Constantza and, having accepted the Soviet ships as Romanian, fired two torpedos.
In 1 hour and 44 minutes «Sch-206» has been sunk by deep bombs of Sov.destroyer "Soobrazitelnyi", approached to the aid "Harkov".
As I read, soon after Sov.Navy arrival in Constantza, they foun out where Moskva is, but theirs leaders categoricaly interdicted any other activities on wreck. His position appears on divers sites.
|Posted by: Petre August 18, 2009 01:05 pm|
| From a part of a text of belorussian author Igor Drogovoz (book : Bolshoi Flot Strany Sovetov - The Great Fleet of the Soviet Country) :
Romanians till the night have rescued 69 crewmen of "Moscow", including its commander, Captain-Lieutenant A.B.Tuhov. The others 268 men were lost. Later, Tuhov ran from the POW camp, has reached Odessa and has headed the scout team of the partisan group "Burevestnic". But in 1944 he was founded and executed by his vigilantly chasers. Here is what it was told about this in a more recently declassified inquiry : "Kapitan-leitenant Tuhov A.B., in a tribunal private meeting in Simferopol, in absence is condemned to capital punishment. The sentence was carried out by the NKVD employees for the front line".
Such an absurdity here !
At first, without any advantage, the newest (1938) large ship (3080 t) was lost, through a pair of hours, in a fratricidal fight, its destiny was broken by a modern submarine (1936).
Then, the destiny of the commander. It has escaped from explosion, has not sunk in the sea, has been wounded at head, has made three runaways from captivity, has reached his country, more than a year was at war in guerrillas and, after all these, he was executed by some Soviet CEKA executioners.
So to say, in the award for all ! The guilty was him, instead of the commander of the Black Sea Fleet, VAdm. F.S.Octyabrskyi, who sent the ships in a suicide raid and has not informed on it the commanders of submarines, in action at enemy coast.
|Posted by: frantz May 08, 2011 01:26 pm|
| Hello list,
We have found and identify the wreck of Leader Moskva. The identification took place on 05.05.2011 and the dive was made together with 3 GUE divers from Russia and Ukraina. Respiro Society is proud to discover this wreck after 70 years from her sinking. We filmed and took pictures, a press-conference is scadualed for next week. On 26 of June 2011 we plan a joint expedition together with our Russian and Ukrainian friends to pay our respect to Moskva and it's crue, a bronz comemorative plaque will be attached to the 150mm stern canon.
The wreck is broken in 2 parts, a big explosion took place before the sinking, the stern section is intact from the first engine to the propelars. Cannons, machine-guns and torpidotubes are well preserved and in place. Is laying with an inclination of aproximate 30-35 degrees on port side. The bow section is upside-down, tower and front canons buried in the sand.
In our opinion the sinking is due to a mine. The explosion of the mine detonated the front boilers or amunition compartment and broke the ship in 2 parts. We hope to confirme this theory on the folowing dives.
|Posted by: Hadrian May 08, 2011 07:02 pm|
|What exactly will be written on the plaque?|
|Posted by: frantz May 09, 2011 07:15 am|
|It's not decided yet, we will consult the Romanian and Russian Navy first|
|Posted by: Mircea87 August 03, 2012 09:48 pm|
|Posted by: timisoso April 19, 2014 07:52 pm|
| The Movie of the "Moskva" Wreck: