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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Romanian Royal Navy > Class IIB submarines in the Black Sea|
|Posted by: Dénes July 30, 2004 07:08 pm|
| Here's what I found on another forum, written by Csaba Becze:
"Germany sent six IIB class small submarines to the Black Sea. They were towed in the Elba and Danube with replaced turrets.
Only one was lost by Soviet bomber on 20 August, 1944, two other were scuttled at Konstanza harbour several days later, the other three were scuttled off the coast of Turkey in early September."
|Posted by: Carol I July 30, 2004 07:22 pm|
| This is what I have found on http://uboat.net/ about the http://uboat.net/types/iib.htm operating in the Black Sea:
http://uboat.net/boats/u9.htm: Sunk at 1030hrs on the 20 Aug, 1944 at Konstanza, Black Sea in position 44.12N, 28.41E, by bombs from Soviet aircraft.
http://uboat.net/boats/u18.htm: Scuttled on 25 Aug, 1944 at Konstanza, Black Sea, in position 44.12N, 28.41E.
http://uboat.net/boats/u19.htm: Scuttled on 10 Sept, 1944 off the coast of Turkey, Black Sea in position 41.16N, 31.26E.
http://uboat.net/boats/u20.htm: Scuttled on 10 Sept, 1944 off the coast of Turkey in the Black Sea in position 41.16N, 31.26E.
http://uboat.net/boats/u23.htm: Scuttled on 10 Sept, 1944 off the coast of Turkey in the Black Sea in position 41.16N, 31.26E.
http://uboat.net/boats/u24.htm: Scuttled on 25 Aug, 1944 at Konstanza, Black Sea, in position 44.12N, 28.41E.
|Posted by: Carol I July 30, 2004 07:30 pm|
| Also from http://uboat.net:
The Black Sea was the patrol area of the http://uboat.net/flotillas/30flo.htm at Constanza from Oct 1942 to Oct 1944. All its 6 U-boats were transported via land to the Black Sea and all of them were lost there. 3 were scuttled by their crews near Ergeli, Turkey on 10 Sept, 1944 to escape capture by the Russians.
The http://uboat.net/flotillas/30flo.htm was founded in October 1942 under the command of http://uboat.net/men/rosenbaum.htm. The boats reached Constanza after a transport over land and canals. The operational area was limited to the Black Sea. Its history ended in September 1944, when the three last Flotillas boats U-19, U-20 and U-23 were scuttled on 10 September 1944 near the Turkish coast.
|Posted by: Dénes July 30, 2004 08:32 pm|
| Thanks, Carol I., for the details.
The whole discussion started from the following post, related - interestingly - to the Luftwaffe:
"A fiend send me a newspaper page about this and I was really confused at the first moment but now I want to share this information with you .
In 1944 the germans transported smaller submarines from the Ostsee ( Baltic sea ) to the Schwarzes Meer ( Black sea ) They used the rivers Elbe and Donau for that , but from Dresden to Ingolstadt they had to use the Autobahn . This was a very heavy load at a special carrier , two heavy trucks pulling and two heavy trucks pushing . During this transports no other vehicle could use the Autobahn .
The Allied got notice about this transports and send aircrafts to bomb this transports .
At the 28.8.44 a recce Mosquito PR XIV of No 60 Squadron ( south african )from Foggia / Italy looked in the area of Zandt after this transport at 8 am at low level .
But suddenly a Me 262 appeared and shot the Mosquito down .
Mosquito : No 252 , " King George VI "
Pilot : Lt Christian Mouton , South Rhodesia , age 31
Navigator: Daniel Krynauw , Cape Town , age 20
Both were buried at the cemerty at Breitenhill .
Nothing is mentioned about the german pilot , quite an early Me 262 victory ."
I mentioned that August 28 is too late for this operation, as Rumania had defected from the Axis camp five days earlier. And I don't think any U-Boot could be rescued in this fashion due to the hectic action taking place shortly after the unexpected defection.
|Posted by: Carol I July 31, 2004 06:33 pm|
I also think that 28 August was too late for trying to send subs to Romania (I got the impression that they were trying to send the subs to the Black Sea, not to rescue them from there). I wonder if there is a mistake in the date. As the German 30th Sub Flotilla was founded in October 1942, its subs must have been sent to Romania sometime earlier, maybe in August 1942. But then the aerial encounter described in the post you quoted could not have happened. Maybe the date is right, but then it was another transfer operation.
|Posted by: dragos August 03, 2004 01:17 pm|
|The 6 German submarines were transported in 1942 from the Baltic Sea on the following route: Elbe (Kiel - Hamburg - Dresden) - overland - Danube (Ingolstadt - Galati - Sulina).|
|Posted by: Dénes August 03, 2004 02:57 pm|
| The problem with the date is that in 1942 the Me 262 was not operational yet. That's why the confusion with the mentioned article.
|Posted by: dragos August 03, 2004 03:01 pm|
|Maybe the Mosquito encountered a transport in 1944, which was not of the six U-boats that were definitely dispathced to Romania in 1942.|
|Posted by: Carol I August 03, 2004 05:06 pm|
This is precisely why I have said that the aerial encounter described in the post you quoted could not have happened in August 1942. Thus, the date of August 1944 is probably right, but then it was another transfer operation (the same hypothesis has been favoured by Dragos as well).
|Posted by: Petre April 29, 2009 10:44 am|
| On Aug. 20th 1944 in Constantza Harbour 44.10N, 28.41E U9 was sunk by bombs of the Sov. Pe-2. It was lifted by Sov. winter 1945 and towed off to Nikolayev for repair. On Apr. 19th 1945 renamed ТS-16. Hard to repair, Dec.12th 1946 send to deletion. The Iron Cross of his turret send to museum.
On Aug. 20th 1944 in Constantza Harbour 44.10N, 28.41E U18 was hard damaged by bombs of the Sov. Pe-2. On Aug. 25th it was flooded by crew SE cape Tuzla in point 43.52N, 28.41E not to be captured. It was lifted by Sov. end of 1944, enlisted as U18, not repaired and on May 26th 1947 sunk by submarine "М-120" training gun-fire, near Sevastopol 44,20N/33,20E.
On Aug. 20th 1944 in Constantza Harbour 44.10N, 28.41E U24 was hard damaged by bombs of the Sov. Pe-2. On Aug. 25th it was flooded by crew SE Constantza in point 44.09,5N, 28.41E not to be captured. It was lifted by Sov. spring of 1945 enlisted as U24, not repaired, conserved and on May 26th 1947 sunk by submarine "М-120" training torpedoing, near Sevastopol 44,20N/33,20E.
On Sep. 10th 1944 as result of capture of their sea bases by Sov., they were flooded by crews in Black Sea, north coasts of Turkey, points with coordinates :
U19=41.34N, 31.50E area nordwest Kilimli (Zonguldak);
U20=41.10N, 30.47E area nord Karasu;
U23=41.11N, 30.02E area of Agva west Kefken Adasi;
source : Net