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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Reenactment > Are there any Romanian WWII reenactment societies?|
|Posted by: sid guttridge August 10, 2005 09:05 am|
| All over Europe and the US there are various re-enactment societies and clubs who turn out for displays with WWII military uniforms, weaponry, transport and equipment.
Are there any equivalents in Romania?
|Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu August 10, 2005 10:36 am|
|once I saw a movie called "what planet are you from?"|
|Posted by: sid guttridge August 10, 2005 11:24 am|
| Hi D-13th Mytzu,
The twin planets of Hope and Expectation.
I presume your answer is "No"?
|Posted by: C-2 August 10, 2005 12:28 pm|
Mytzu is right..
For many years the Romanian history had a hole in it. (between 1877-1947)
Old uniforms were burned medals hidden or destroyed.
Imagine yourself that there is no IAR 80 in any Romanian museum.!
Commies tried to erase any evidence of the past.
|Posted by: Dénes August 10, 2005 01:41 pm|
| Re-enactment is not necessarily about original items (uniform, weapons, etc.), as modern replicas, that are historically accurate, can also be used for this purpose.
In Hungary there is a vivid re-enactment movement (incl. from medieval ages) - I posted some photos a while ago - therefore, I see no reason why something similar to happen in Rumania, too.
|Posted by: Victor August 10, 2005 02:39 pm|
|The only "re-enacting" I am familiar with is done by several researches at the National Military Museum. They participated recently to a WWI re-enactment in Hungary and during the Days of the National Military Museum they dress up in old uniforms. But that's about it.|
|Posted by: PanzerKing August 10, 2005 04:53 pm|
| I wish we could get a couple of T-4s and TACAMs and all of us here at the forum to do a Romanian battle. That would be awesome!
When I'm a millionaire, I'll work on this ok?
|Posted by: Jeff_S August 10, 2005 05:54 pm|
Should we be expecting this imminently? If so, I have a couple projects that need financing, and they have nothing to do with reenacting.
Back on topic, I know that there are reenactors in Russia, and from Denes' post Hungary too... maybe it just needs more time to take root. Romanians living abroad could see reenactments in their host countries, say "we could do this in Romania", and get things started when they return.
Jeff (whose reenacting experience is limited to the English Civil War)
|Posted by: PanzerKing August 10, 2005 08:08 pm|
I'll get back to you in 15 years!
|Posted by: Carol I August 14, 2005 10:59 am|
http://www.magazinistoric.itcnet.ro/?module=displaystory&story_id=720&edition_id=16&format=html in Magazin Istoric No. 1 (January) 2005 (Romanian only)
|Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu August 14, 2005 04:30 pm|
Unfortunatelly most romanians who live outside, don't care much about this country anymore - at least those I know.
But, what if we try to do this here ? at least put some theoretical basis to it and when the time/money comes put it in action ?
Anyone interested of such thing ?
|Posted by: Kepi September 28, 2005 04:38 pm|
| There is a reenactment group in Romania that commemorates the 6th Guard Dorobanti Regiment “Michael the Brave”. It is composed of 9 members and “covers” the whole period, from its set up, as a territorial infantry unit, in 1873, until it was disbanded in 1948. So, all the major campaigns of the Romanian army could be represented. As far as I know, they are working for a web site. I know that there are a lot of reenactment groups in Eastern Europe for all historical periods (starting with the Antiquity until Vietnam war) but in Romania the main problem is to find items of uniforms, equipment and, particularly, weapons. Enlisted men uniforms and equipment are almost impossible to find today because in the Romanian army they used to wear military equipment until its total destruction, or have transformed old stocks in prisoner uniforms (as it happened with the M.1966 army kaki cloth uniforms since 1989). There were no army surplus stocks in Romania to be sell to private persons at it happened in Western Europe.
The very few remaining parts of uniforms belonged especially to officers and they usually are in very poor condition or their small size make them unsuitable to be worn on reenactment shows. Otherwise, it is not recommended to wear original dress (at least 60 years old) in (reconstructed) battles, to fling through mud or dust. For older periods such as WW1 or the Independence War of 1877-78, things are more difficult to find.
So, for reenacting WW2 Romanian army units the only and recommended solution is to use reconstructed uniforms rounded with original (or post war) items of equipment. Hopefully, from the middle of 1960s Romanian army used M.1939 style equipment: leather belt with rectangular plate (with RPR coat of arms that must be remouved), bread bag, knap sack, rank badges for enlisted men, etc. Cartridge pouches for the Czech VZ-23 clips, are easy to find in antique shops as M.1939 Dutch style helmets or VZ-23 bayonets and shovels, even if the prices are sometime prohibitive. The bayonet and entrenching tool holder , the yoke straps could be made in thick leather by a good shoe maker. As canteens and mess tins, could be used M.1960s army’s models (easy to find in antique shops) or German models, as the Romanians used a lot of German army equipment.
In my opinion, one of the most important, problem should be the boots. Romanian laced boots were similar to the German late models. Today army boots are higher and have rubber soles.
The photograph evidence is very important to reconstruct an accurate military uniform. Then the details come: if the uniform is for the Eastern Front – with side cap, baggy trousers and leather leggings or of the Western Campaign – with the field cap (Capela) , breeches and puttees. There are a lot of details that could personalize an uniform.
To be a reenactor is not an easy and cheap way of life. You must have an uniform, with appropriate equipment and weapons, for at least one of the important historical periods, you have to learn military drill and to accept to obey orders, you have to participate at “campaigns”, that means to travel on your own expense in Romania or abroad. Briefly, you must be a real military history enthusiast.
|Posted by: Cristian September 29, 2005 10:10 am|
|Where the group is located?Could the members post here the reenactement items they have? Maybe other forum members would participate with their items to define a complete equipment, as a starting point to copy them.As you say, is not easy, but is funny!|
|Posted by: Dani September 29, 2005 11:58 am|
A logical conclusion from what you've written is that the reeenacment group mentioned belongs to the Minister of Defence.
If they are private persons I doubt that they are allowed to have weapons.
Check on http://www.cdep.ro/pls/legis/legis_pck.htp_act?ida=50367
Article 29, point (4) - for weapon use.
Article 45 point (1) - for ammunition.
Edited: If they are private persons I doubt that they are allowed to have weapons for use in reenacting (use and display outside)!!!
|Posted by: Cristian September 29, 2005 12:39 pm|
|Dani, the facts are different that you think. I legally own, as private person, a Kar98, a P08 , a C96...and others. .Is not easy to obtain a permit, but possible. So , lets find the helmets first!|
|Posted by: sid guttridge September 29, 2005 12:52 pm|
| Hi Kepi, Dania and Cristian,
Some very interesting and well considered posts. Thanks.
Could we not perhaps "build" a completely equipped Romanian infantryman here on Feldgrau from bits of clothing and equipment in the possession of forum members?
The first thing would be to prepare a master list of the clothing and equipment normally issued to a Romanian private in, say, 1942. (i.e. hemet, caciula, boneta, shirt, blouse, etc., etc.)
We could then send in photos of the appropriate pieces of equipment and cross them off the list one by one until we have our very own notional soldat.
I have a long lost friend with a Romanian Dutch-pattern helmet with the Carol monogramme on it. I will try to re-establish contact and get photos of it.
|Posted by: mihnea September 29, 2005 01:02 pm|
| Check out my WWII reenactment equipment, I am missing only a rifle one of these: Mauser 98k, VZ-23, Mosin Nagant. Hope to get one soon.
As it is written in the law, if you are a collector you can own a de-militarized gun that fires only blanks.
|Posted by: Dani September 29, 2005 01:04 pm|
As a weapon collector you own, don't you?
A permit could be obtainable, but I was reffering on displaying your weapon "collection" (according to that law) outside your residence.
|Posted by: Cristian September 29, 2005 01:17 pm|
|I can own 10 real cartridges for selfprotection and 50 blanks.I can have a particular route approved by police to carry my guns (at my request).But look at Mihnea! He's almost ready!|
|Posted by: Dani September 29, 2005 01:22 pm|
I know already that. You are just complying to the law's requests.
But once again, could be used this weapon collection in an reenactment action????
According to the law it seems that it is impossible. Not to mention that you, as a collector, should wait for police approval on your request to "move" your collection.
|Posted by: Dénes September 29, 2005 01:34 pm|
Did Rumanian soldiers use the German-style round gasmask cannister?
|Posted by: Dani September 29, 2005 01:36 pm|
As well as action (in Romanian only):
|Posted by: Cristian September 29, 2005 01:42 pm|
|Nobody done this untill now,so let's try! I think institutions like MMN will support such actions (Mihnea will help us ) if we'll have a pertinent request.Also police,if we will not present ourselves as a bunch of crazy lunatics who wants only to fire blanks on the fields|
|Posted by: sid guttridge September 29, 2005 02:51 pm|
| Hi Mihnea,
Excellent collection! You have made my project unnecessary from the start!
How did you manage to get together such a good collection of the clothing, leatherwear and weapons?
It is almost as if one individual had hidden it all in a waterproof and moth-proof trunk for the last sixty years!
|Posted by: dragos September 29, 2005 04:27 pm|
|Posted by: mihnea September 29, 2005 04:38 pm|
| Eh… my uniform is for reenactment so it is not totally original.
The tunic, trousers and cap are repros, of very good quality.
The boots are Swedish, post war, but they are the same type.
The belt is communist era, the Y straps, again very good quality repros also the bayonet frog and the carrying leather for the shovel are repros.
Here are some photos of German equipment used by Romanian soldiers, unfortunately the quality is very very low because my scanner has just passed out and I photographed the pictures.
Look at the red arrows.
Here is clearly seen the German gas mask.
You can just see the cup of the German water bottle.
Look closely at the second soldier and you will see the German canteen. My canteen is romanien, communist era, but identical to the German one you can find some in Lipscany area, antique shops, that’s where I bought mine.
I will be back with better images as quick as possible.
|Posted by: Kepi September 29, 2005 04:55 pm|
| Well done, Mihnea! Mihnea is already an advanced reenactor. According the recent law, for non-lethal weapons (which also includes neutralized military rifles) you need only a holder certificate (“Certificat de detinator”) . See: http://www.politiaromana.ro/acte_necesare_permis_arma.htm
There is not a particularly location for the reenactment group of the 6th Guard Dorobanti Regiment. I think the best person to be in contact is Horia Serbanescu, of the National Military Museum in Bucharest (e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org ). He is the initiator of the group and the organizer of some reenactment shows. He is in contact with many reenactment group of abroad (Hungary, Slovakia, Austria, Bulgaria) and have participated at several shows in Komarom (1914-18), Dunaharaszti (1941-45), Shipka (1877-78), “Whings and Weels Show”, Ursel- Belgium (1941-1945), etc.
This group is not a MoD organization, is only a private initiative but for its activities the group has the Military Museum support (as other similar groups of abroad). The weapons are from the Museum when the show is in Bucharest but in some other cases, such as Komarom-Hungary, the group received demilitarized rifles from the organizers, that fired blank cartridges. Of course in all other countries (including Hungary, Bulgaria, Slovakia, etc.), real reenactors have their own weapons and the organizers provide only blank ammo. The greatest part of the rifles are recalibrated for the 8 mm caliber (civilian).
I think that any new members are welcomed or new groups could be organized, for different armies (although is a necessity for a stronger Romanian military presence in different reenactment shows) or periods. Many reenactors are fascinated by Wehrmach/Waffen SS military performance and they organize German units (there are a lot in Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Russia, Ukraine, etc) but I think is more challenging to set up national armies groups.
More reenactors in Romania means the possibility to organize greater shows, to attract the interest of institutions and local authorities and to educate the public to pay respect for everywhere soldiers who died serving their country. We should fallow at least our southern neighbours’ exemple. In Bulgaria there are tens of reenactment groups which deal with different historical periods: medieval, the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-78, the Balkan Wars, etc. and have organized large scale international reenactment shows, in which hundreds of reenactors participated with their own uniforms and weapons. The greatest part of them are collectors and I’ve seen impressive private collections of edged and fire weapons, uniforms, medals, etc. (see: tradicia-sh.hit.bg , unfortunately only in bulgarian)
But as I said before, this is a very serious job. As in other reenactment groups, a new member enters as a recruit, and should have a basic equipment: the head gear, tunic, trousers, boots and the greatest part of the equipment in order to participate at the first shows. Then, according his merits and contribution to the group activity, he could be promoted to higher ranks. Every reenactor should have a service book on which the commander records his activity. There is a kind of military regulation of the group, drew upon the real military regulation of the respective period, that stipulates the main duties of the members, according their rank, how to behave with the superior and subordinate ranks, the military drill and battle training, etc. The reenactors should respect this regulation when they are “in campaign”.
I hope to not discourage those who might be interested in reenactment but the seriousness makes the difference between adults playing soldiers and real military history fans.
For interested people I will post some drawings presenting the regulation uniform and equipment of a WW2 infantryman.
|Posted by: Victor September 29, 2005 06:45 pm|
| mihnea, please do not forget to mention the sources for the photographs you post.
At first glance, they are from the album Armata Romana in al doilea razboi mondial, Meridiane, 1995.
|Posted by: Kepi September 30, 2005 11:20 am|
| Here you can find some accessories of a Romanian soldier uniform of WW2. This could be a start for a colector or reenactor.
Different types of field caps ("Capela"), for officers and men, 1942-1945, side cap ("Boneta") worn in 1941-1942 and visor cap, worn especially by air force soldiers.
M.1939 tunic with different variants of cuffs, made in cloth or thick linen (in summer).
Another pattern of tunic worn from 1941.
Other ranks breeches.
|Posted by: Kepi September 30, 2005 11:27 am|
| More items of uniform:
The great coat.
M.1939 laced boots and leggings, replaced from 1942 by puttees.
M. 1939 equipment.
|Posted by: Cantacuzino September 30, 2005 12:34 pm|
|Nice drawings, Kepi.|
|Posted by: mihnea September 30, 2005 01:06 pm|
Sorry, I forgot. The first picture is from my own collection, the second one is from “Armata Romana in al doilea razboi mondial”, Editura Meridiane, 1995 and the last one is from “Armata Romana 1941-1945” Editura RAI, 1996.
|Posted by: dragos03 October 01, 2005 08:52 am|
|I can contribute with a Model 1939 gas mask (complete), a field shovel, an officer's "port-hart" (that belonged to my grandfather), a communist steel helmet, a double ammo pouch (i think it's WW1) and several orders and medals.|
|Posted by: Kepi October 01, 2005 10:18 am|
This is a good start to recreate a complete WW2 Romanian soldier uniform. The M.39 (cylindrical) gas mask, the shovel and the Austrian style double cartridge pouch are OK. I would like to see photos of them, if possible. Concerning the “communist” helmet, what is the real model: Soviet M.40 or Romanian M.73?
Of course, there are other items missing (head gear, tunic, trousers, boots, belt, bread bag, etc.) but these will gradually come in the future. The most important is to know what are the items of equipment you need, to look for them. For shows many reenactors use to help each other or borrow missing items from their comrades or institutions.
|Posted by: dragos03 October 01, 2005 10:33 am|
| The helmet is M73, painted blue, without liner.
I had many opportunities to buy various pieces of equipment: bottles, bread bags, backpacks, parts of uniform. But i don't have enough knowledge to tell if they were WW2 or post-WW2 so i didn't buy any of them.
|Posted by: Kepi October 01, 2005 11:07 am|
| Then a M.39 helmet, with liner and strap, would be better. There is not difficult to find such a piece, but be careful on the price/quality ratio. Sometimes the prices are indecent for poor quality shells.
I posted some drawings of WW2 items of equipment. Original pieces are almost impossible to find, although sometimes miracles happen. Recently somebody found a WW2 bread bag in a pile of communist era bread bags, and at the beginning of the year a collector discovered a pair of WW2 soldier breaches, brand new, but small size, in an… “unknown” place. So you must have open eyes.
Anyway, if you have the opportunity to find good quality communist bread bags, canteens, mess kettles, etc. (a lot of old officers were issued with these items, so they are available in antique shops or on the flea market), at reasonable prices, don’t hesitate to buy them as they could became very rare in the future. They could be used for reenactment as many western reenactors use post war or reconstructed uniforms and equipment.
The main purpose is to make a rational combination of items of uniforms and equipment in order to recreate a credible WW2 soldier.
|Posted by: sid guttridge October 01, 2005 11:41 am|
| Hi Kepi,
Thanks for the excellent drawings. It gives everyone a check list to measure their collection against.
As a matter of interest, is the heavy khaki cloth used to make WWII uniforms still produced in Romania?
How long after WWII was the same cloth used to make uniforms?
How long after WWII was the same pattern of uniform still used?
|Posted by: mihnea October 03, 2005 01:37 pm|
| Unfortunately the kaki cloth used to make WWII uniforms is not produced any more; in fact the Romanian army had a variety of kaki cloth shades.
But you can paint cloth and get a similar color.
In the picture I posted you can see the result of painting cloth and the different shades obtained.
1- original kaki cloth
2, 3, 4 - different shades that were made, only second and third are similar and can be used in WWII Romanian uniforms
|Posted by: Kepi October 05, 2005 11:39 am|
Thank you for compliments! I’ll do my best to encourage the reenactment movement in Romania.
Officially, the production of kaki cloth uniforms in Romania ended at the beginning of 1990, when new camouflage field uniforms were adopted. A few years since that year Romanian enlisted men still wore old M.1966 uniforms, made in kaki cloth, until the army stocks ended. Unfortunately, there are no army surplus stocks in Romanian army to be sell to private persons.
Anyway, the M.1966 kaki cloth was more greenish than the M.1939 kaki cloth.
WW2 uniforms were produced until 1947, but still wore during the next years, until the new M.1948 Soviet style uniforms became of general use. M.1948 uniforms were made in a different shade of kaki , more brownish, almost ochre.
|Posted by: Dénes October 05, 2005 03:02 pm|
| Below is a field cap replica, currently selling on eBay.
|Posted by: Kepi October 05, 2005 04:43 pm|
It's a nice "Capela". The cut and cloth is similar to the original models.
It's a good opportunity for foreign enthousiasts to set up Romanian WW2 reenacting units.
What about us?
|Posted by: mihnea October 05, 2005 04:50 pm|
| Nice, very nice. It seems to be of very good quality but the price is a bit too high.
But for reenacting you must be careful because it could be too large or too small for the head of the owner.
|Posted by: dragos03 October 05, 2005 05:12 pm|
| Here is a photo of my Model 1939 gasmask.
And the ammo pouch and "port-hart".
|Posted by: Dénes October 05, 2005 06:00 pm|
Since this particular item is apparently coming from Rumania, I'd say it can also be acquired domestically - at a much more friendly price.
|Posted by: Kepi October 06, 2005 05:46 am|
The gas mask is M.1935 Romanian pattern, carried in metallic tin box, issued for civil defence formations at the end of 1930s. The gas mask was similar to the Polish M.32 military model. The Romanian military model had the filter carried in side cloth bag and had a flexible tube between the mask and the filter. For the civilian type the filter was fastened on the mask itself, as on the german model.
At the beginning of the war a lot of M.35 civilian gas masks were delivered to the people, so today they are easy to find, in very good condition, in antique shops or on the flea market, contrary to the M.35 military model.
The map case is one of the many models used by Romanian officers in the 1930s and 1940s.
The double cartridge pouches could be Czech or Hungarian.
|Posted by: Cantacuzino October 06, 2005 06:28 am|
Girls are allways looking good in uniforms. I would like to see romanian girls in romanian re-enacting WWII uniform.
Picture courtesy Dan Melinte.
|Posted by: Kepi October 06, 2005 08:21 am|
| Some other images of the National Military Museum “Open Gates”, of 7th-8th May 2005.
The victorious “Reds”.
“Sisters” at arms ?
Friends and Foes salute
|Posted by: Kepi October 06, 2005 09:34 am|
| I just learned that in the National Military Museum a souvenir shop was opened. There are a lot of items of uniform & military equipment (caps, M.39 helmets, canteens – mostly German, gas masks, etc.) orders and medals, books. They also sell repros of WW2 uniforms.
|Posted by: Cantacuzino October 06, 2005 11:45 am|
They also make repro uniforms and medals (awards) at orders.
e-mail adress: email@example.com
|Posted by: Victor October 06, 2005 12:05 pm|
Is it where the old shop of mr. Ghinea was?
|Posted by: mihnea October 06, 2005 12:05 pm|
Nice objects they all seem to be in mint condition.
The double cartridge pouches are Czech from the 1930s.
|Posted by: mihnea October 06, 2005 12:13 pm|
Yes at the entrance down stairs where the cloakroom is.
But it was there before the Days of the National Military Museum (May this year).
|Posted by: dragos03 October 06, 2005 12:32 pm|
|I also have two coats from modern Belgium uniforms and a Romanian policeman's coat and hat from the RPR period. Unfortunately none of them looks like the WW2 Romanian uniform.|
|Posted by: Carol I October 06, 2005 08:08 pm|
Are the orders and medals original or recently made copies? Thanks.
|Posted by: Kepi October 07, 2005 05:27 am|
| There are Romanian and foreign orders and medals on the Museum's shop. Some of them are marked as reproductions but for the rest I can’t guarantee that all are original.
It’s the same situation in all European Militaria shops or markets. As it is a great demand of military uniforms, insignia, medals & badges, particularly of the 3rd Reich period, many enterprising persons produced replicas of such kind of items and, unfortunately, sell them as originals. Only good specialists could sometimes identify the fakes.
During the last years it seems that a lot of fake Romanian Militaria, some of them very well made, arose on the market. So, you have to be careful.
|Posted by: Carol I October 07, 2005 06:57 am|
Thanks for the reply.
|Posted by: Kepi October 10, 2005 08:39 am|
Some photos of the last year show:
Around the colour.
With some KuK (Slovenian) brother at arms.
Preparing the defences before the austro-hungarian attack.
During the "battle".
The final parade.
|Posted by: mihnea October 10, 2005 09:58 am|
Wow nice collection.
I have three questions for you:
1. Can you post some pictures?
2. Where did you bought them?
3. What kind of ammo you use for the Mauser 98k, 8mm or 7,92mm?
|Posted by: Cristian October 10, 2005 05:15 pm|
1. I don't have a digital camera.But the forum members Cantacuzino and Cipiamon took pictures with some guns, and they are free to post them.
2. I legally collect weapons from 1986. Some I found by myself hidden in several places,some are bought from several gunshops in Romania (never Bucarest).
3.I don't understand your question. the 7,92mm Mauser is the same with 8 mm Mauser ( different designations for the same cartridge), or you ask for other type of ammo.My byf is 8x57 mm caliber.
|Posted by: dragos October 10, 2005 05:48 pm|
| With the permission of Cristian, here are a few pictures of his collection
|Posted by: mihnea October 10, 2005 06:00 pm|
| I was asking the caliber because I heard that 7,92 cartridges are very hard to find and at a high price. And also all the Mauser rifle for sale in western countries (France) seem to be modified to use 8mm.
What do you mean by “My byf is 8x57 mm caliber.”?
You mean 1996 not 1986 because in Ceausescu’s era was impossible to own legally a gun.
Do you have any demilitarized weapons?
Is there any gun shop in Romania where could I buy a WWII type weapon?
PS Hope I am not to annoying with my probably stupid questions.
|Posted by: Cristian October 10, 2005 06:54 pm|
| Mihnea , in France the so called "military cartridges" are banned for civilians. But they are using another "civilian" cartridge in the same caliber. That means that a civilian need to modify the cartridge chamber in order to use legally a Kar98.That means extra money for conversion and a lack of "historical" accuracy of the item. But is more than nothing
When I said "my byf..." I used a sort of "slang" between Kar98 collectors, using the german codes. byf is the Mauser factory code. My brother, for example, have a S/147 (J P Sauer factory), a friend have a dot (Ceska Zbrojovka), But all are Kar98.
The year I started collect was 1986.It was possible, even in that time to collect, but,allmost nobody oficially asked!
My guns are NO demil
There is no specialized shops in Romania for ww2 military weapons, you need to find private owners to buy,intermediate by a gunshop, or buy outside Romania.
The 8x57 ammo is not hard to find in Romania, because is used for hunting.The price is a little bit high, arround 5 RON/cartridge.
And your questions are not stupid.I had the same questions years ago!
|Posted by: mihnea October 10, 2005 06:58 pm|
| Very interesting collection indeed, I am amazed of what you got there especially the Steyer, Mauser C96, Beretta, and Luger pistols and the MP40.
No need to ask my question about the byf I get the idea. I think you could still add a repro butt (the wood part) or even an original one, with all the accessories to that hunting rifle without modifying the barrel and trigger mechanism.
Can I buy such a rifle in Bucharest?
The MP40, the other pistols and the revolvers are in working condition (can you fire with them)?
Thank you in advance for the answers.
Edited: I have written this post before seeing yours, sorry.
|Posted by: Cristian October 10, 2005 07:44 pm|
| You can start searching for a Kar 98 in Bucarest (you need a good advice! ),but you need to be over 18YO.
Some of my guns are not safe to fire due the age,but some are.All are unalterred But the law give me permission to own ammo only for one long gun, on my choice.I owm ammo also for my hunting guns.
quiz -beginner stage:wich is the model of the big revolver in the center of the third picture that Dragos posted?
|Posted by: Carol I October 10, 2005 07:46 pm|
Is that a real WWI flag or a reproduction?
|Posted by: mihnea October 10, 2005 08:48 pm|
I think it is a revolver from the Independence War (1877) but I don't now the exact type.
PS I am over 18 years old.
|Posted by: Cristian October 10, 2005 08:54 pm|
|Good!! Is the mod,1876 Buescu revolver,Congrats!|
|Posted by: mihnea October 11, 2005 02:57 pm|
Wow that’s amazing until now every body I have spoken to told me it was impossible to own a gun legally before ’89. But everybody was talking probably from what they heard from somebody else and in fact very few, your example, know the real law.
Well what can I say more… congratulations.
|Posted by: Kepi October 11, 2005 03:29 pm|
The infantry colour is a copy, because all real colours and standards are in the museums. The colour tissue is of M. 1924 pattern (it bears the 1923 Romanian Kingdom coat of arms) and was not really carried during WWI. In 1916-18, Romanian troops had M.1902 or M.1915 colours and standards.
The reenactment group took this colour in a hurry in order to strengthen the Romanian military presence on Komarom WW1 show.
|Posted by: Carol I October 11, 2005 07:19 pm|
Thanks for the reply. Do you have a better photo of the flag to see some details?
|Posted by: Carol I October 11, 2005 07:26 pm|
| The author of the article http://www.magazinistoric.itcnet.ro/?module=displaystory&story_id=777&format=html (Adrian-Silvan Ionescu) impersonating a colonel of the 2nd Heavy Artillery Regiment.
|Posted by: Kepi October 13, 2005 07:47 am|
| Another photo (unfortunately of low quality) of the Military Museum's "Open Gates", on the first day (7th of May 2005) commemorating the soldiers who died during WW2. In the fore ground is Professor Adrian Silvan Ionescu, commander of the reenacting group of the 6th Dorobanti Regiment.
|Posted by: Cristian October 17, 2005 06:16 am|
| Link to another forum with similar topic
|Posted by: mihnea October 17, 2005 06:53 pm|
| For sale on eBay!
|Posted by: Dénes October 17, 2005 07:10 pm|
For a reproduction!
P.S. I hope at least they also offer the blue-eyed mannequin (dummy) for that price
|Posted by: mihnea October 17, 2005 07:23 pm|
I hope you don’t get me wrong the price is huge!!! (~1263,5 RON)
|Posted by: Dénes October 17, 2005 07:53 pm|
Yes, my point exactly.
|Posted by: Cristian October 18, 2005 07:42 am|
Mihnea, you can buy rifles from here, but you need police licence for firearms.The prices are quite fair.
|Posted by: RHaught December 25, 2005 10:16 pm|
| This link might help. Have been trying to gather materials in the US but hard to do except for weapons.
Wait to see the pics. Usually Euro's will be more for us in the States!
|Posted by: Cristian December 27, 2005 12:05 pm|
| At last,for those who love war games, somebody bring airsoftguns and related equipment in Romania
|Posted by: mihnea December 27, 2005 02:32 pm|
The Romanian WWII section is still under construction and I think it will be so for a long time.
|Posted by: mihnea December 27, 2005 02:37 pm|
It would be nice to bring beside modern weapons and MP-40´s, Thomson’s and other WWII weapons.
|Posted by: Dénes December 27, 2005 03:59 pm|
| How about this: Japanese guys playing Rumanian soldiers.
|Posted by: mihnea December 27, 2005 05:21 pm|
| We should be shamed that even the Japanese have Romanian reenactors and we don’t have any and we are Romanians.
I can’t believe what I am seeing, but the uniform that was for sale on eBay was bought by someone from Japan, so this might be the guy.
I wonder how did you find that website?
|Posted by: Dani December 28, 2005 11:53 am|
A Google translation for that page shows:
Concerning the equipment which is worn with the photograph of this page.
The helmet which is the signboard of the Rumanian troop utilizes those of the Dutch troop (after the war is thought as the item). There is no difference in form.
After the war it substitutes the winding gaiter of the belt shape with Japanese Self Defense Force ones.
The jacket acquires 徽 chapter to the troop clothes the around Spain, hides the front adjusting and wears those which were remodelled to the button.
As for the low shoes the cheap job shoes which are sold at foam/home center and the like. As for belt those of brown leather make solid color of the Swiss troop.
(With the photograph which wears mosquito Pell the low shoes of the Swiss troop are worn.)
The ammunition porch, as for the careless pouch that it seemed and equipped those of the German troop.
If the person whom you see sees, this much there is no either random troop equipment, but in order for there to be meaning in you try doing first, you think the troop equipment of this type.
|Posted by: Jeff_S December 28, 2005 07:07 pm|
|So the short message of this "translation" is that there is nothing truly Romanian about this equipment? He was just trying to get as close as he could?|
|Posted by: calarasi December 28, 2005 09:33 pm|
| Sorry, I'm a bit confused, I thought earlier on this post someone (I think Mihnea) said there were reproductions made in Romania, and gave the contact e-mail? Is that a company or individual?
Also what about what the Museum group is doing, and who made those WWII reproductions in the photo from last May opening? Doesn't the museum have an original troops' uniform one could possibly copy and is the lack of fabric the only problem or did I miss something?
I know of Horia Serbanescu's excellent articles, are those uniforms from his own collection or the museum's or some of both. Beautiful reconstruction photographs, the Romanians had a really great looking kit! Too bad there is not a lot of interest yet to make a good uniformological study outside of Romania (something in the form of a militaria type book for recognizing items). BTW is he not a member of this forum??
|Posted by: Dénes December 28, 2005 09:46 pm|
I wish he would be, as the participation of more Rumanian specialists (and professional historians, I might add) would be a tremendous benefit to this forum.
|Posted by: mihnea December 28, 2005 10:02 pm|
Welcome to this forum.
The uniforms used by the "Museum group" are very accurate replicas made in Romania and the cloth was painted to obtain the right colour, they were made by an individual.
I have never posted an e-mail address, maybe a link.
You don´t like my kit: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2360&st=15
|Posted by: Kepi December 30, 2005 06:21 am|
| The picture of the Japanese reenactor wearing a Romanian WW2 uniform is a very good example of how the things are going today with the Romanian military history.
During the Communist era there was a stupid nationalist approach concerning the Romanian history (the Romanians were the first, the best, the bravest, the honest, the more hospitable, etc. etc. among the neighbouring countries). This was imposed by the official propaganda, managed by General Ilie Ceausescu, the Romanian leader’s brother, with the blessing of some important historians, but never fully assimilated by the ordinary people who mistrusted these theories as other official dogmas of the Communist Party. Since 1989, when the official way of learning the national history disappeared, it was nothing to replace it. Because of the transition efforts but also the lack of real education make ordinary people to be not interested anymore in history, except some stupid nationalists and the politicians during the official ceremonies. Even the great Romanian historians don’t accept that today’s history has “democratized”. There are a lot of ways to approach the history, there is not a single truth and everyone lived and understands history in a different way. The historical events are not simply good or bad, and you have to respect others opinion when refer to the moments of the past. I thing it’s more important to understand the every day life of people who lived another time than the life of great (“legendary”) personalities or the great events of the history.
The reenacting it’s a result of the "democratization" of history. The reenactor it’s a private person who has an interest on a historical moment and try to better understand it by recreating the atmosphere of that time. Generally he is a collector and learns to respect old objects, by saving them from destruction, by restoring and displaying them. As a military reenactor, he is not a militarist and, despite some exceptions, he also learns to respect the former enemies, now colleagues who have the same hobby. He pays tribute to the soldiers who honorably died for their country along the history.
Contrary to the everywhere situation, there are very few people in Romania, interested in such historical approach. Most of the people even don’t know about this way of learning and understanding history. The reenactment must be a result of a private initiative. The reenacting group of the 6th Dorbanti Regiment is such a private initiative. It is located at the Military Museum only because Horia Serbanescu, who is one of its initiators, works there. The group has the Museum support for some activities (providing with weapons and offering its location for the shows) and, in exchange, it offers its contribution to the Museum’s events (such as the “Open gates”). Everywhere there is a cooperation between the reenacting (or historical) groups and the public institutions (sponsors are always welcomed), they help each other, but as I said, the reenacting came from the individual and it’s not created or imposed by some official authorities. This make the pleasure and the fun of this activity. For example, during the Museum’s “Open gates” apart the reenactment group, composed of people of different ages, consciously wearing different types of equipment, according their preference and means, there was also a group of 10 uniformed soldiers of the Guard and Protocol Regiment, equipped with Communist (WW2 style) uniforms, who performed some drill movements and fire demonstrations. The reenactors’s drill movements probably were not so perfect, as the real guard soldiers did, but were more human and close to the attitude of the WW2 soldiers. At least, they understood why and what they are wearing and carrying and the reason of their behaviour. The real Guard soldiers moved as robots and felt silly in those clothes and attitudes.
There are more and more foreign enthousiasts from US, Canada, Ukraine, Japan interested in reenacting Romanian WW2 soldiers. I hope and militate to fallow their example. But, again, this must be a private initiative, that could gather militaria collectors and military history enthousiasts. The next year Museum events (“The Romanian army during the reign of Carol I. 1866-1914”, on 13-14 of May, and especially, the first international reenactment show in Romania that will commemorate the Battle of Arges River, of 1916, held at Mogosoaia area, on 16th September) could rally Romanian reenactors and enthousiasts.
Any interested people?
|Posted by: Kepi December 30, 2005 07:48 am|
| Concerning the Japanese reenactor there are however some minor inadvertences concerning his uniform. The distinctive colour of the infantry was blue from April 1941 (Cavalry had pink) but collar patches were not carried on M. 1939 other ranks tunics. In summer usually soldiers wore duck tunics and cloth trousers (breeches), so the tunics were of a lighter shade of khaki ( sometimes bleached to white because of sun and successive washings) than the trousers. The waist belt has no plate but only a Japanese buckle, the cartridge pouch is not Romanian, the rifle is a Mauser 98k with bayonet (carried also by the Romanians), etc.
Of course, all above remarks don’t diminish the merits of the Japanese fellow but highlight his efforts to reconstruct a Romanian WW2 infantryman at about 10 thousand kilometers from here. His interest on Romanian military history must be praised.
However, is unexpected the Japanese reenactors efforts to play European or North American types of soldiers: Napoleonic Old Guard Grenadiers, American Civil War, WW1 French Poilus, WW2 US Marines, Waffen SS, etc.) instead of their (or Asian) traditional medieval or modern warriors.
|Posted by: Victor December 30, 2005 07:54 am|
|Well, he could reenact a member of the Romanian Tatar minority drafted into the army during the war.|
|Posted by: Kepi December 30, 2005 08:10 am|
|Yes this might be a good idea, as there are Japanese reenactors who play Russian Tartar volunteers of the German army in WW2.|
|Posted by: sid guttridge December 30, 2005 11:42 am|
| Hi Kepi and Mihnea,
Was the Japanese WWII uniform not generally similar in colour (khaki) and design (i.e. puttees) to the Romanian summer uniform? In order to produce a passable Romanian uniform, all a Japanese re-enactor would have to do is adapt a Japanese uniform and buy a Dutch helmet, of which the Japanese presumably captured a considerable number in Indonesia in 1942.
|Posted by: calarasi December 30, 2005 12:59 pm|
| Good morning to all,
I have to say it's a very interesting thread discussion. First about the reproductions: thanks for the welcome and the info Mihnea, now I'm curious who the individual making them is, is he part of the National Museum? I thought your kit really looks great, the only problem is that it's hard to know what you are looking at without reference of any sort.
Apart from the obvious features like pockets and general design which look right, what about the details of the real tunics, does one omit them from the reproduction because no one knows what they are anyway or are they present. I'm kind of a purist when it comes to reenacting and I like to know I'm wearing something that could have been worn 60 years ago (apart from the obvious new materials). For example from some of the original photos it would seem the M39 wool tunic was either unlined or partly lined. It may seem like an unnecessary detail since no one sees it but I think it should be important to the person wearing the tunic.
In the end a reenactor is much like a soldier in that the soldier feels more like a soldier once he wears a real uniform for the first time, and likewise the reenactor feels like he's doing a serious impression and acts like it when he feels he also has a real uniform on. That's my opinion anyway. Of course it's only the first step to making a serious reenactor and a serious reenactor group.
I like what you were saying Kepi, the enthusiasm of the private individual is the key to kindling the fire nationwide so to speak, as well as outside Romania, after all, recognition of the important Romanian military role and sacrifices in WW2 by "Normandy-centrists" is quite overdue. But what about the Museum group, are you a member of the 6th Dorbanti? How can someone get involved? I live in Italy for example but would be honored to support your initiative by coming to Romania as well as present the impression here in Italy sometimes (the reenacting phenomenon is very recent here as well, and initially there were some of the same problems you mention, still there are many). Well, would "foreign" elements be welcomed? I have already bought a helmet!!! (but seriously I still need books and all kinds of help to make it happen, I don't want to put the cart before the horse).
Anyway, there's at least a foreign volunteer, but in any case I saw the Museum's website and it looks like it's very big and well worth traveling just to see it.
|Posted by: mihnea December 30, 2005 02:17 pm|
Your right the picture doesn’t show too many details, but as soon as I get home I will post more detailed photos (that will be after 6 January) and then you will see how good it is made; it is a copy of an original even the colour of the liner (that was easy, white cotton).
I think if you want to join you just have to ask the right person. He. He.
|Posted by: RHaught December 30, 2005 10:20 pm|
Well, WWII reenacting is just as big in Japan as in the US and parts of Europe. They mostly do Western Front from some of the sites I have been to and some Eastern Front. Think it would be more approriate for them to do IJA since those of us in the US want to do Pacific Theatre and fighting a non-Asian dressed as a soldier in the Japanese army doesn't look right. There is interest to do Romanian WWII here in the US, just damn hard to get stuff.
|Posted by: RHaught December 30, 2005 10:22 pm|
A friend of mine knows the people at the company. Will contact them to see what the expected time frame is for WWII Romanian but though it seems a while at least there is the link and site for futured endeavors.
|Posted by: darius1941 December 31, 2005 11:54 pm|
|I would like too wish everyone a happy new year and I hope the new year brings everyone the best! I see that the subject of ww2 romanian reenacting has come up again which is always a good subject too talk about! We really need good reproduction uniforms and we could really use them now! I hope this new year brings a source for a good reproduction because the converted west german uniform I am useing might get me through but it is still a convert! I also have read the latest posting on reenacting and speaking just for myself I find myself in agreement with some of the feeling of other when they describe the reason for reenacting.Here are some of my memorys of reenacting!There was the time in winter where my hands were so cold even with gloves that the only way they stayed warm was the 40lb motar tube I carried around retain the heat for a long time.and the time I was a DEAD soldier and the american advancing my way did not jump high enuff there by kicking me hard in the face! or the time I was reenacting romanian and was in a fire fight with two red army soldiers(one was a male and the other was a female) and it was going on for 10 minutes until they came charging down the hill to kill me,I had just ran out of ammo so they time that one good! But the comradship you share with other reenactors is the most important memory of htem all.I have a question fo Rhaught,where are you located?take care|
|Posted by: RHaught January 01, 2006 03:29 am|
In NYC, getting ready to head to Times Square to welcome 2006!! Best time I had was a Battle of the Bulge reenactment where I was walking a muddy road on right side of column, 2 half-tracks, a 222, 2 kubewagons came by and it was snowing! Felt like I was in the German advance through the Ardennes, and the Eastern Front event I got caught eating lunch in an abandoned house when the Russians hit my squad with a "Hoorrray" charge!
|Posted by: darius1941 January 01, 2006 03:17 pm|
|Good morning to everyone and a happy new year! just a couple of question for Rhaught,do you have a romanian uniform put together?If so have you attended any events as a romanian? I am here in stroudsburg,pa so Iam not to far from you! let me know about the romanian impression and what got you interested in romanian? The red army reenactors just love too mass attack the german line with the human wave tactic.The east front event held at whitehall,pa a few years ago the red army was told not to do the human wave tactic and to fight as groups.They were in large numbers at that event for once and in the afternoon they wanted me,as a romanian soldier too come over to their side,which I did not!Here is a question for anyone who may help,was the romanian soldier issue Beer ?I bought a azuga beer bottle from someone,war time dated and I would like too know if I use it at events is it correct?One last questions for the members living in romania, any one collecting ww2 u.s.army items?|
|Posted by: RHaught January 02, 2006 03:57 am|
Well have started to put together a Romanian kit a year ago. Have bad repro, puttees, compass, bayonet frog, looking at bayonets and helmets now. Like the pics I have and those seen will need to utilize some of my German items but prefer to have original or very good reproductions. Seems to be able to get from Europe but no idea how. Have never done Whitehall, PA since this is my 4/5th year reenacting. Usually in SS uniform instead but for Living History have been wanting to do Romanian. Why and what got me interested in Romanian reenacting? My wifes grandfather (still alive in Iasi) was a lieutenant in the 7th Rosiori Regiment and wounded at Rostov in December of 42 I think he said. Then the 10th SS vet I know (unit I reenact) said that when Frundsberg was on the eastern front, his unit had 2 Romanian volunteers who worked as translators because they knew Russian and French (they were also with them in France 44). After looking at WWII reenacting noticed that when I have been to the 2-3 eastern front events haven't seen anyone doing Hungarian or Romanian units and this had me thinking that other countries needed to be recognized so that is what got me started gathering items. I have collected about 30 maps of Romania made by the Wehrmacht, a few photo albums by German soldiers so I can get the detailed and historically correct information as well. So if we can have more people interested (already have added WWI to my reenacting hobby) then the most likely someone here would be willing to produce a uniform here in the US (like Lost Battions in Texas or Schipperfabrick in Florida).
|Posted by: mihnea January 02, 2006 12:09 pm|
| Hi Darius1941 and RHaught, could you post some pictures of your Romanian soldier impressions or your kit?
I would also love to see some re-enactment photos of Romanian soldiers fighting side by side with Germans.
|Posted by: RHaught January 02, 2006 12:25 pm|
|go to http://www.frundsberg10.com and click the photo section, here you will see pics with German kit, I'm in there but no one but Florin knows what I look like|
|Posted by: mihnea January 02, 2006 01:08 pm|
|Very nice pictures, RHaught, but I was hoping some pictures with your Romanian kit .|
|Posted by: calarasi January 02, 2006 04:19 pm|
| Hello Mihnea and Kepi, and happy new year to everyone. It's getting more and more interesting, so is the person who made your reproduction the same as the one who made the uniforms for the Museum group? Looking forward to learning more about what the uniform details are, at least if one evr shows up on eBay we'll know if it's original or not.
Kepi are you involved with Horia's group? I'would be curious to know if I can meet them in May when the Museum has it's opening event again.
To RHaught and Darius, sounds like you are very lucky in the US to be able to do proper reenacting, but if the laws in Romania permit blank firing demilitarized rifles I would say you Romanians have a lot of potential to build the hobby there.
Only thing I still don't understand, maybe I'm not reading very carefully, if the museum and/or reenactor group is selling reproduction uniforms why not buy them from there?
|Posted by: darius1941 January 02, 2006 11:18 pm|
|I hope everyone is doing well this evening! I have just read the latest posting,so I will try to cover all the subject which I can.I agree with you Rhaught about staying away from german items when doing romanian!This is something which I have practice and it is not a easy guideline too follow!But I rather do without than look like a german soldier. I know that german equipment was used by the romanian but from what I have been through at these events it is better not too look german. I will just say that the german reenactors here have alot too learn about the romanian army and one thing that allways happens to me at all events is that Iam always shot by the german because they think I am a red army soldier! They just have not seen fit too take time out too learn the other uniforms of the armys which fought along side with the germans!I have asked Mihnea about the romanian messkits and he told me they are very hard to find even in romania,so we will have to use our german issue one for the moment.Beside the convert west german uniform I have ww1 u.s.army puttees,the belt is a converted civil war one and the buckle is the west german issue found on that canvas belt which is two inches wide,all I did was grind off the pebble finish and paint it black.I have the correct ammo pouches finally! It took years for them to finally show up around here,if you do not have a pair let me know as I have two extras I believe.And I finally found a dutch helmet which I had too paint ,it is too small any way but it is a start,I finally found another my size which now needs a paint job!The cap I made myself out of painted or dyed swedish wool.the canteen is a put together from a west german police canteen which look a little like the romanian canteen.Mihnea told me that the post war bags are close to the original but there is a little difference,I hope too find some of these as the bag I use is not to good. The only part of the impression which there is no trouble is the rifle,there are allot os vz-24 here and at a good price!The only trouble I found is they do not want to cycle the standard 8mm blanks we use for our german k-98! But I have wood tip blanks from the 1930s-early 40s and they work fine! I want to make a promise to Mihnea that as soon as better pictures are taken of us doing romanian I will get them posted on this forum somehow!If I can not find any one here I will be happy too mail them over to any of you gentlemen who can help at my expense.I read the posting from calarasi and I would like to purchase a uniform from the museum over there if they are indeed selling them but It may be a problem as I had email them before and never heard back from them!Is there anyone living close to the museum who amy be able too buy them for us?I do feel that although we may be able too reenact more freely here in the u.s. that you members in romania have too let us know what we are doing wrong and how too make this ww2 romanian army reenacting better.Before I forget,I do not use the wood-tip blanks as they are not allowed at events but I did want too see how they work in the rifle.take care|
|Posted by: mihnea January 03, 2006 09:26 am|
Yes he is, and he also sells reproductions at the museum store, it is not the museum that sells it is a private store that sells privet owned objects, nothing belonging to the museum.
|Posted by: RHaught January 03, 2006 10:52 am|
| How good is the material used in the reproductions? If charges a good price (and Darius will tell you this also) and good quality product would be able to get people in the US more involved. Know Schipperfabrik makes a Polish M36 uniform and a M35/36 Belgium uniform for early, early war events but the earliest I have seen is the 1940 France events.
My items are stored at a friends until my wife and I get out of the city so no pics off hand. do have maps and albums here though. Will try to post some later today and look at the list.
|Posted by: mihnea January 03, 2006 03:25 pm|
It is normal to be shot by German re-enactors; to avoid being shot the, Romanian soldiers fighting on the eastern front were wearing a yellow band on their left arm, you should do the same or, if you want, you could wear an German helmet, after Stalingrad the Romanian army bought a big quantity of German helmets.
I don’t thing that the west German police canteen is similar to the Romanian WWII, the best canteen to use at this chapter is the German WWII canteen, but the closest that I found is the Yugoslavian WWII canteen with an modified communist era cover or an heavily modified Romanian communist era canteen.
Here you are probably referring to the bread bag; the main differences between the WWII and the post war bread bag is the difference in size, the WWII ones are smaller than the post war ones, but you will not observe the difference unless they are side by side the other difference is the color of the leather elements the WWII ones were painted with an gray-green paint the post war ones war not painted.
If you post some pictures with them I could tell you if they are original or pos war as they were also made in after war, the difference is the leather, but I need the photos to tell you exactly.
PS Please, darius1941, next time you post use paragraphs; it is very annoying to read such an endless lump of text.
|Posted by: mihnea January 03, 2006 03:39 pm|
My uniform is mad of a very good material, a bit better than the one used in original Romanian WWII uniforms and it is also very warm. But for the summer I am going to make a replica of a summer tunic, I had passed out once in it but it won’t happen again.
I can't compare it to a good German uniform replica as I never seen one, unfortunately.
|Posted by: sid guttridge January 03, 2006 06:29 pm|
| Hi Mihnea,
To clarify matters for foreigners who may be able to find simmilar material abroad, could you specify the following:
1) What material were the tunic and trousers of the Romanian winter uniform?
2) What material were the tunic and trousers of the Romanian summer uniform?
Also, as uniform colours tend to fade in use, what is the acceptable range of colour and shade in which each item may be found to accurately portray a Romanian WWII soldier? Perhaps you could show examples of the lightest and darkest shades of Romanian khaki that are acceptable for each piece of clothing?
|Posted by: darius1941 January 04, 2006 12:26 am|
| My apology to everyone for cramming my posting together so tightly!I will start improving things at once!
I bought that west german police canteen several years ago from a mail order company and it is not shaped like the standard issue german canteen but shaped more like the ww1 austrian canteen which I see being sold at times.
The canteen dose not have a screw-on top but only had a cork in the spout with a cord attach to the body,with no cover around the body at all.
Also it is a square in shape not oval.Anyone know more about this canteen?
One of the ammo pouch I have is post war as I can make out a name(look to me as czech)and a date,1952. The other pouches I have look very similar so Iam guessing they are also post war.Is it possible original pouches are being sold on the market? What is the difference in the leather?
I agree with RHaught on the need of getting some sort of uniform in our hands over here in the u.s. as it will help get other more involved.
I know of another gentleman in the German 45th div. here who is also interested in doing romanian and I know he would like a good repro uniform!
And we also need a good summer uniform as the summer here on the east coast can get very hot and very humid!
Back onto the subject of being shot by the German reenactors,I have thought about that yellow arm band and I may yet have too use one too advoid from being shot, but now that I think of it the german have no problem knowing the italian uniform and they do not shoot at those reenactor from what I have seen!
|Posted by: RHaught January 04, 2006 02:20 am|
| I can contact Ed Walton of Lost Battalions to see at the possible making of uniforms or Paul Schipper? Emailed the company in Italy so waiting for response and will post it here. German or WWII reenactors in general do not see anyone but some Italian, Russian, British, American or German forces. Very few Eastern Front events here like I said only 2 I have been at out of 3 in 3 yrs (can't go to GD event at Newville due to doing SS).
As for items, looks like in the US it is going to have to be borrow, mix-match, post-war items just to get close unless someone knows where we can get these items for a decent cost.
[/QUOTE]I know of another gentleman in the German 45th div. here who is also interested in doing romanian and I know he would like a good repro uniform!
Is this the 135th of the 45th Division here in NJ, PA region?
Will put an email out on reenactors list to see what I can find out.
|Posted by: darius1941 January 04, 2006 09:11 am|
| Good morning to everyone.
The gentleman I know in the german 45th div.is in the same unit located here in the NJ/PA area and when I do run into him at the event we both talk about the romanian impression.
I have not spoken to this guy for a year now so I am not sure how far he has come along with his uniform,ect.
RHaught have you ever been to any of the Bedford event?
I had though of going to one of these events as romanian!
Never been to any of the Bedford events before so I may just plan too attend the next one which I believe is being held this month.
Or so someone said on the Red Army forum.
Before I forget Rhaught are you with the 10th ss that attends the Fort Mifflin,PA events?
I was all set too go to the last event at fort mifflin this pass november but we were hit with that snow storm so I was not sure whether it was cancel!
What I have in terms of uniform/equipment for my romanian impression can pass and it may not be perfect but as I always say"Rome was not built in a day" and it will take time to improve on the impression.
|Posted by: mihnea January 04, 2006 09:43 am|
Unfortunately an small number, and I mean very small, of WWII uniforms that belonged to the solders still exist today, even at the MMN has very few, I have seen only three that are 100% WWII and from these one was an summer tunic, one was almost completely eaten by moths and the last one didn't ever seen the battle field, but I think neither the other two were ever used.
The normal uniform, as well as the cloak were mad out of cloth (stofa – in romanian).
The summer uniform was a tunic made out of a lighter material I am not sure what but I will tell you exactly when I get home, at the end of this week. And the rest of the uniform stayed the same.
For winter the soldiers received fur caps, these were two different designs: the Romanian type at the beginning of the war and the Russian type used in the latter years of war; gloves I don’t now any details and the cloaks.
As for the moment I am not home so I can’t post any pictures. There is a picture posted by me, a few pages back that shows the original cloth used.
|Posted by: mihnea January 04, 2006 01:57 pm|
Some pictures would help, a lot.
If the marking is in an oval it might be Romanian in 1952 they were still made, you could right the text here and I could tell you if it is Romanian or not.
The post war ammo pouches were made of thinner, lighter brown leather and the WWII ones were made of thicker leather, brown for the army (painted white for the guard regiments) and black for the navy and air force.
|Posted by: RHaught January 04, 2006 04:35 pm|
Yes, have been to the Bedford events held by Andy Zappone. Went to the last one which was an Eastern Front event (and some were actual Russians). Not going to this one coming up, in fact think it might be cancelled. Yes, I know the 45th Division members (some of them). Ft. Mifflin I am there and with the 10th SS that atttends as well (CO is Axis Coordinator) so might see you around then. What unit/s do you reenact with Darius?
Here is the email I received from Italian Front on status of Romanian WWII items:
we're currently working on our first order of a basic Romanian kit and expect completion at around the end of February. This includes the M39 khaki wool tunic, shirt, breeches, capela field cap, and puttees, also coming with this kit are reproduction natural color belt, ammo pouches, frog for ZB24 bayonet, and haversack. We're also going to reproduce the mess kit later this year, boots, equipment y straps for cav and mountain troops for example. Also the caciula and greatcoat hopefully in time for next year's winter campaigning as well as the summer issue tunic for warmer seasons. The rest of the kit like original blankets, canteens, e-tools etc we don't have a source for at this time but will be looking.
We want to encourage Romanian reenacting like the other less "considered" Axis powers which we already deal in, like Italian and Finnish, so we are extending our standard 35% off group discount to orders of at least 4 full kits (despite the fact that no one else is selling the kit right now). Lesser discounts are also available starting at 20% for a single uniform package deal. Exact prices will be posted once the items are ready and have time to complete the web page, but considering the custom nature of our repros, quality finish and materials, not to mention attention to details which make our repros real reproductions, the prices are going to be relative to other items we already offer on our site. The kit we're working on with equipment (including the helmet make a total of 10 different items, plus insignia) cost around 800 euros after the single PD discount. A group discount would bring it down significantly more.
Having said that, if I can take one more minute, when considering who might make your repros, there are three important things to remember: 1) Authenticity - there will always be someone willing to make you a kit without doing the hard preparatory work and research that we do for every impression, they hook you up with what seems a great low price then simply pick a picture from a book and voila`, there's your uniform! We invest in purchasing originals (as you can see only in our site) or finding an original to study. 2) flexibility - unlike other businesses in our category, or dealers of stocked items for that matter, we also try to meet reenactor's needs and wishes with flexible payments and volume discounts. Obviously our repros are made in our workshop here in Italy with Italian overhead, production and materials costs, so they tend cost more due to the exchange rate and higher costs generally (when you compare them to repros made in other countries). Lastly, there's (3) convenience - once you put the seemingly higher prices aside, the saying "you get what you pay for" should be the real standard with which to judge our products. It's not just high quality but the convenience of service, like offering about 5 different ways to pay without hassles. But you do an elite German impression and of course you already know what I'm saying and what it can costs to buy the best made repros.
If you need more info don't hesitate to contact me.
Hope this helps all of us out!
|Posted by: Kepi January 05, 2006 01:02 pm|
Yes, I’m a member of the 6th Dorobanti Regiment reenactment group. Horia Serbanescu is Lieutenant of this unit but the commander of the group is Mr. Adrian-Silvan Ionescu. He is a famous PhD art-historian, a good specialist in the 19th Century fine arts, photography, military and civilian costume. He has the rank of Colonel in our group.
There are other 8 uniformed members in our group and for some important activities some other enthusiasts joined us. During the shows the Military Museum helps us by providing some additional parts of equipment and particularly with weapons. Not all the members of the group are collectors but all are interested in military history. The greatest part of their uniforms are reconstructed according the original models. Horia Serbanescu gives all the information concerning the uniforms and equipment and one of the group members, who is a talented tailor and attested textile restorer, make the uniforms and some parts of the equipment. His prices are not too high and he make discounts for his colleagues. Original uniforms are extremely rare and too fragile to be worn on the field. Of course, some original items of equipment (helmets, waist belts, belt plates, cartridge pouches, knapsacks, canteens, gas masks, etc.), sometimes of later models but similar to the originals, were carried. The members who have additional items of equipment help their colleagues during the shows.
As I said in one of my previous posts our group commemorates the 6th Dorobanti (Territorial Infantry) Regiment, from 1873, when it was set up, to 1947. The unit fought during the major campaigns of the Romanian army: 1877-1878, 1916-1918 and 1941-1945. So the members of the group should have three basic uniforms, for the respective historical moments. They were successively made according the events on which the group has participated.
Obviously, new members are always welcomed. They only have to contact me or direct Horia Serbanescu at the Military Museum. Mihnea, who is an experienced reenactor, could be also a good advisor on this matter.
For 2006, our group and the Military Museum intend to organize two shows. The first will be on the Museum’s "Open Gates", on the 13th-14th May. This year event will be dedicated to the king Carol I epoch (1866-1914), so our group will wear 1877-78 Dorobantzi uniforms. The second show will be held on 16th of September and will commemorate the Battle of Arges river of November 1916, the most important battle of the 1916 campaign, when Romanian troops (and a few Russians) faced the Germans, Austro-Hungarians, Bulgarians and Turks. We would like to have an international presence and this will be a fighting reconstruction of that historical moment.
Unfortunately, no WW2 shows are planned for this year. Volunteers are welcome for any of the armies involved in that battle. I will give all the details when these projects will be thoroughly considered.
|Posted by: Kepi January 06, 2006 12:10 pm|
| I forgot to mention that not all historical periods (1877-78, 1916-18, 1941-45) must be reenacted by the same person. The members of the group could select their favourit period, which means one, two or all the three campaigns. This depends on the personal preference but also on the financial resources.
As I said before, the uniforms and equipment could be made gradually, in order to be not a burden for the reenactor. It could be started as a basic (summer) uniform, then rounded with other items (greatcoat, knapsack, winter gear, etc.). The most important for a recruit-reenactor is to decide upon the period and unit he would like to reenact and then to start collecting or securing the uniform and equipment.
For example, for the first show, of 13-14 May, the group will wear M.1873 (War of Independence) uniforms as the topic is "Romanian army of King Carol I, 1866-1914". These uniforms are similar to the Romanian peasant costume and are basically composed of a woolen hat, with turkey plume, white linen peasant shirt with light blue collar, cuffs, shoulder boards and front strap, white cloth trousers (breeches), black jack boots or peasant sandals (opankis), black leather waist belt, front and rear cartridge pouches, white linen knapsack.
I enclose some photos of former shows to have an idea.
(The MMN "Open gates", May 15, 2004)
("Shipka Pass" show, Bulgaria, August 20, 2005)
To these dress some other items could be added in the future (greatcoat that Dorobanti also wore as tunic, knapsack, etc). M.1873 uniforms are more complicate and expensive for officers, but new recruits start as privates, so there is no need for more expenses yet.
I want also to mention that persons interested in reenactment could start their own groups, on different armies and periods. All these reenactment units are welcomed on any reconstruction show.
New units or branches of service are also most welcome. The Museum intend to show a 1877 field gun firing during the event of May (and also for the WW1 reconstruction), so any artillery unit (at least 3-4 members) would be most necessary. I or the Museum staff could help any interested people with appropriate information.
|Posted by: Cristian January 06, 2006 05:19 pm|
Kepi, is there any picture or original holster for Buescu Md.1876 revolver used by artillery units?
I'm interested in gun firing , too. Do you use blackpowder? Where can I buy some, legally?
|Posted by: darius1941 January 07, 2006 10:18 pm|
| Good evening to everyone.
Mihnea,I found 3 of the 4 ammo pouches which I have and looking at the back of the pouches two have some sort of marking the 3rd dose not.
Pouche no1 has a number on the right hand side near the top"172".
just below that number on the same side is the following"janos"and a secound 7 letter word which is not easy to read because of the wear marks on top of it.
The year"1952"is below those two words
Pouch no2 has the number"195" up near the top of the,right hand side but this time the back of the flap and stiching is position directly over the number.
Same side,below are two words but this time the first word is worn down and the secound word is"Harbak" and the year 1952.
That last word is questionable as the first three letter are hard too read.
Pouch no 3 has no marking but is in the best condition of the lot.
The color of all three pouches is a deep chestnut brown.
RHaught the guy in the 45th german div is joe solaris(I hope I spelled his name correctly) and the last time I spoke too him he was half way through putting his romanian impression together.
I know the unit which you belong to and you seem a great bunch of guys!
I belong to the 272nd Fusilier comp. base up in up state new york.
Scott Thompson host the Odessa event every year.
Some where along the road I have too make a decision whether too stay with them or look for another unit as they are far away and now they seem to travel less and less to the event down here.
Or for what matter they seem too be doing less events all away around!
Have you had any trouble with the SPOOKS in casement 5 at fort mifflin?
Kepi,The gentleman who is makeing the uniforms at the museum,dose he do ww2 as well and do you think he would be able too get some of them here to us in the u.s.?
What sort of price is he charging and how long dose he take in making these uniforms?
Any information would help.
It would seem that beside the gentleman at the museum making uniform there is the othe source who may have a package out soon.
What is the conversion of 800 euros into u.s. dollars?
|Posted by: RHaught January 08, 2006 03:46 am|
| I received some replies for a possible source for a uniform. There is a guy in California who might make them but do not know the cost yet. A person the Wehrmacht reenactors yahoo list sent me a name and email. Will contact him as well. Have no idea so guessing 800 euros is about $1,000-$1,200.
Equipment looks like it will be the more difficult challenge. Dutchie Militaria offered to help me search, just send him a list of items.
Casemate 5 at Fort Mifflin, no issues (for those not familiar, Ft. Mifflin was a Revolutinary fort used till the 1970's near Philadelphia, PA. It is in the top 20 most haunted places in the US and featured on the History Channel for this as well). Did have an experience the last time there and 2nd event in the bakery.
I'll PM you for the rest.
|Posted by: darius1941 January 08, 2006 04:51 pm|
| Finding the proper equipment to do romanian will be a problem.
It took a long time for the correct ammo pouches to come my way and I had too use a leather austrian pouch for a while.
The only other piece of equipment that seem to be easy to find is the bayonet/frog combination.
What is the story with the french gas mask bag?
I was told that the romanian army used them also during the war.
Can anyone shed some light on this matter?
I have been useing a unknown tent halve for romanian which I know is post war but from which country I do not know.
It is a green color,with the button press on,not sewn and the center has a opening for your head.
The color is green and I found no marking on it anywhere.
RHaught if you want too email me with more storys on fort mifflin contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org
I have a couple of question too ask which do not fit into this forum.
Another item which come around for sale is the shovel/carrier combo which I am not too sure if it original or repro.
|Posted by: mihnea January 08, 2006 08:32 pm|
| I'm posting now my little collection of WWII ammo pouches, all of them are original WWII: 2 brown (army), 1 brown painted white for the guard regiments, 3 black (air force or navy).
So here are the pictures:
Black and brown ammo pouches front and back.
The white one front and back.
One of the brown ammo pouches filled up with 5 Mauser 98k/ ZB-24 clips. But because of the age of the ammo pouches only two can still be closed with 5 clips in.
PS I will post tomorrow detailed photos with the rest of my equipment.
|Posted by: RHaught January 09, 2006 12:35 am|
| Nice pics of items mihnea!
Starting to gather items for infantry but would like to do mountain troops!
Darius, email isn't working so sent through the one here!
|Posted by: RHaught January 09, 2006 02:38 am|
| Another question for the forum.
The books I have (Third Axis, Fourth Ally, Romanian Army of WWII (Osprey) and The Romanian Army WWII (Romanian book with English) really do not go into equipment in detail. Does someone have the items that were carried by the regular infantry and mountain troops? Thinking to do early war impression since it would allow for more events.
|Posted by: darius1941 January 10, 2006 08:33 am|
| Good morning to everyone!
Mihnea,I like your collection of ammo pouches! I have never seen a pouch color in white before.
Are these hard too find?
I try too buy as many pouches as I can so long as they are not priced to high!
If a white color pouch ever shows up I will buy that one for sure.
RHaught,How is that book Third axis,Fourth ally anyway?
Last year on ebay I was bidding on a copy but the price was up over $80.00 which was a bit high for me.
Of the 6 events which I have done romanian,2 were 1945,1 was stalingrad,1 was Kursk and the last two were just free for all type events,no time line just eastern front.
But I only fought with the allied just one time against the germans at the last 1945 event and I was in company of another romanian and 1 red army soldier
Last part of the day we were holding a hill and the american unit behind us came up and told me they were leaving the hill, there by leaving us three the only soldier on top of the hill.
A few minute later up come about 30 germans and before they seen us the other romanian and myself retreated down the hill to a more defenceible position.
Which turn out to be nice,round big fat trees with a clear field of fire!
Our red army comrade was on his belly behind a few rocks up on that hill with his oversea cap on a stick trying too play sniper,he thought he could fake the enemy out with his tricks!
He said early in the day that that famous russian sniper at stalingrad used that trick!
So as he played with his cap on a stick the German army came up the hill and shot him full of holes!!!
Later on as he came down he ask why did we leave him up there alone.
As we explain too him that holding the hill was madness and we romanian lived too fight another day I could not help laughing too myself that the romanian army had sacrifice a soldier of the Red army to the enemy so that we may live another day!
Beside this fool shows up in the morning at this event with just 15 blanks for his rifle.
He had to be out of ammo when the German storm the hill,alot good he would have been in the fire-fight.
I have my impression set up around 1941 to late 1943,just standard infrantry.
RHaught any special reason for doing Mountain Troops?
I have two original ww2 romanian postcard/letters comming in the mail.
One is from a soldier in the 20th div dated 1942,that should be interesting.
|Posted by: Kepi January 10, 2006 09:55 am|
According the M. 1873 Infantry uniforms regulation, officers should carry their M.1873 “Galand-Lebeau” revolvers in natural leather holsters. NCOs and artillery gunners carried the same holsters but in black leather. The M.1876 (so-called “Buescu”) revolvers had the same size as the M.1873 pattern, so officers and men used the same holsters. As far as I know, the Museum doesn't have such a holster. The oldest type seems to be the M. 1896 pattern, for the "Saint Etienne" revolver.
I enclose a reconstruction of the M.1873 holster, made two decades ago, according the regulation description (unfortunately not very clear). I suspect the dimensions are not very accurate, but if you have the pistol, you could adapt the dimensions for the size of the weapon.
(Photos of Cornel I. Scafes, Horia Vl. Serbanescu, Corneliu M. Andonie, Ioan I. Scafes, Armata Romana in Razboiul de Independenta, Editura Sigma, Bucuresti, 2002)
When you said you're interested in gun firing, would that means artillery gun firing? If you are interested to reenact Romanian artillerists I would help you to round your equipment according the 1873 regulation. It will be interesting if during the Museum Open Gates , we’ll be able to make a demonstration with one of the Krupp guns displayed in the Museum courtyard. I think we should have at least three artillerists in the group in order to make a credible demonstration. This group could also “fire” during the WW1 show of September. Please let me know if you intend to develop this idea. I’ll be very happy to help with any information you need.
I don’t know where we could find black powder for firing old weapons. This powder is frequently used during the reenacting shows in Hungary, Bulgaria, Russia, to name only our neighbours. For this year events I think the Museum (military institutions) will help us on this matter. Another variant is to have the support of some cinema specialists for special effects (explosions, gun fire).
|Posted by: Cristian January 10, 2006 11:00 am|
|Kepi, thank you for the very, very usefull info. And yes, I'm interested in artillery gun firing. I'm happy to hear some guns in the museum are in working order for reenacting purposes. As I noticed in the past , most of them have the firing mechanism welded or dismantled. Black powder should be use for guns of that period; the white smoke and the specific noise of black powder blast is very effective for the accuracy of the moment.|
|Posted by: Kepi January 10, 2006 11:59 am|
Romanian second line troops (AA artillery, gendarmes, navy) equipped with M.1895 Austrian Mannlicher rifles, also carried Austrian WW1 cartridge pouches, because their clips had an specific inclined shape. But these pouches don’t fit with the VZ-24 or Mauser 98k rifles.
Romanian army never used French gas masks during WW2. Until the mid 1930s, Romanian troops were still equipped with French M.1918 ARS gas masks and different versions of the WW1 Russian Zelensky-Kumant types. Then Romanian army obtained the licence of the Polish WZ. 32 gas mask and this was produced by Sarogaz in big quantities. It was carried in a cloth bag identical to the polish model. During WW2 Romanian soldiers carried this model, but also the M.1939 civil defence model (with a cylindrical tin box) or even the German model.
The Romanian tent sheet was a khaki rectangular piece of cloth, heaving metallic butons and holes on the sides, reinforced holes for the tent poles in the corners and a lace passed on a semicircular sewer in a corner, in order to wear the tent sheet also as a cape.
|Posted by: Victor January 10, 2006 12:22 pm|
| For gas masks, you can read this older topic: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1072
dragos03 has one and could also post some photos.
|Posted by: Kepi January 10, 2006 12:37 pm|
The infantry / mountain troops equipment was identical, except the head dress and the foot gear. Many reserve or recently created mountain units (as the 18th Infantry/Mountain Division) worn infantry puttees and boots. I don’t even know if the soldiers of the 18th Mountain Division changed their Capelas with the more fashionable Mountain berets.
For some details (and pictures) concerning the WW2 Romanian army equipment I would also recommend Horia Serbanescu’s articles in “Militaria” Magazine: « L’armée roumaine 1941-1945 » Nr..110 / September 1994; « Le fantassin roumain a Stalingrad» (I) and (II), Nr.154/ May 1998 and Nr. 157 / August 1998; « Le fantassin roumain à Budapest, 1944-1945 », Nr.164 / March 1999.
|Posted by: mihnea January 10, 2006 03:09 pm|
| Now the bread bags:
In all the pictures: the ones on the left and right are clearly post war, the one in the middle is from WWII.
In the pictures the difference in size is clearly visible and the color of the leather is different the WWII one has the leather painted very dark green-gray combination. This paint was used only in WWII.
Here are some detailed pictures of the markings on the interior of the covering flap.
The ADMIS (translated: accepted) marking was standard for the WWII era made objects; there is also a year marked on the flap, 1942. Not very clear in this picture.
The post war ones have different indescribable markings.
The straps for the mess tin are all post war; the WWII ones didn’t have the metal end it was simply sewn.
|Posted by: RHaught January 11, 2006 02:33 am|
I bought mine for around $50 off of Ebay. There are deals out there, might be able to find it at the GAP this month. Plan to be there for Friday-Sunday just for the fleam market, but might have to go out into the Bulge battle though.
[QUOTE]I have my impression set up around 1941 to late 1943,just standard infrantry.
RHaught any special reason for doing Mountain Troops?
I like the beret better? Anything but a damn helmet! They suck and when the impression calls for something a little softer like it. Plus the SMG doesn't hurt either!
|Posted by: RHaught January 11, 2006 02:38 am|
Thanks for the info and diagram. What about types/name of equipment? Know helmet model but what about pouches, etc.?
Would get articles but magazine is in French and haven't spoken it in 10 years. Should make it interesting to read it again.
|Posted by: darius1941 January 13, 2006 12:43 am|
| Good evening to everyone.
What I enjoy about this forum is how everyone is willing too help everyone out with as much information and surport as possible!
I cannot recall where I had read the information about the french gasmask bag,but this seems to be incorrect.Thanks for the help!
What I would like too ask and find out about is the post war bread bag.
When did this bag enter production and how long was it being made?
Is there a certain designation for this bag/mask?
What are my chance of finding one of these bags for reenacting?
This is a very important piece of equipment for reenacting as it will hold just about everything we need too take into the field.
I could also use the same information on the post war equipment straps.
What can you tell me about the belt buckle?
Did any of the original survive the war? Any pictures?
|Posted by: RHaught January 13, 2006 11:01 am|
|I would like to know if there is a straight forward list of items that a regular infantrymen/mountain trooper had? To keep looking through books is a real pain and believe such a list might help others interested get going with the impression.|
|Posted by: Victor January 13, 2006 11:55 am|
|There is an old thread here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=837|
|Posted by: RHaught January 14, 2006 12:14 am|
| Thanks Victor
I also have the book and should be helpful.
Florin (in NJ), you might be interested in doing this impression for reenacting!
|Posted by: Kepi January 16, 2006 09:39 am|
The WW2 infantry equipment was adopted in 1939 when the new Czech built ZB (VZ-24) rifle entered service and the field uniform was modified: side cap (“boneta”) instead of “capela”, no side pockets and collar patches for the tunic, baggy trousers instead of breeches, leather anklets instead of puttees, “Dutch” style helmet instead of French “Adrian”, etc.
So, the new patterns of cartridge pouches (similar to the Czech model), the bread bag, the knapsack are M. 1939. During that period the M.1935 gas mask (Polish pattern) was also carried.
|Posted by: RHaught January 16, 2006 11:47 am|
|If the uniform, overcoat etc. was khaki, wouldn't it be possible to convert a WWI AEF uniform or use the material to make a Romanian uniform since the American M1912 uniform was khaki as well? Just wondering since I have 2 of these reproduction uniforms and one was made too large.|
|Posted by: RHaught January 17, 2006 08:50 am|
|It was stated earlier of having a composite of items needed. Joe Mikolajczak of Dutchies Militaria received links to our discussions as well as those Victor has linked to assist us and he is looking through his contacts for items. He is a reenactor who also likes to see new impressions. Any information would be useful to him so if you email him put in subject line "info for Romanian impression" and it looks like the game might be on to actually find original, repro or post-war items to be offered by a vendor.|
|Posted by: Kepi January 20, 2006 08:40 am|
The WW1 American greatcoat can be easily converted in a WW2 Romanian soldier greatcoat. However, there are some minor differences: the Romanian pattern had turned up cuffs and had no rear strap. The buttons are metallic, plain, painted kaki.
The Romanian M.39 greatcoat:
The US M.1918 enlisted men greatcoat:
|Posted by: Sturmpionier January 24, 2006 04:24 pm|
| Hello guys,
can anyone post info and images of the entrenching tools used in the Romanian army during WW2.
Thanks in advance,
|Posted by: RHaught January 25, 2006 10:01 pm|
Most likely will convert a WWI AEF overcoat since I have 3 and are cheap to get.
Next question is this, would the man at the museum be willing to make uniforms for us in the states? ItalianFront is getting mixed reviews here in the US from reenactors. This site rates various vendors in the hobby. (http://www.greendevils.com/greendevils/Consumer/)
|Posted by: darius1941 January 26, 2006 08:41 am|
| I went on ebay this morning and there is a gentleman who makes reproduction romanian uniforms,item number 6600325977.
It is sold as a set along with belt/buckle gasmask bag,breadbag,ect.
The price is over $300.00 U.S. which may be a bit high price for some.
The only problem I found is that I already have some of the items and would not need the entire set so I email him and ask if I could purchase only what I need.
|Posted by: Kepi January 26, 2006 09:08 am|
I guess so.
His name is Dragos and his email address is: email@example.com. He speaks English. I think he also could help you with some post war (Communist era) original items such as: bread bags, waist belts, canteens, water bottles, similar to the WW2 models.
|Posted by: RHaught January 26, 2006 10:14 am|
Just emailed him and will wait to see his response. As Darius1941 states the seller from Romania has another repro uniform up on Ebay for $350. By US standards that is cheap. However not sure about quality. Has anyone dealt with him before?
|Posted by: mihnea January 26, 2006 11:35 am|
|I can't find the Romanian uniform on ebay, can some one, please, post the direct link.|
|Posted by: Claudiu1988 January 26, 2006 06:32 pm|
| Here is the link
|Posted by: Dénes January 26, 2006 06:36 pm|
| This set was on sale earlier, too.
No footwear, though.
I believe it's a fair price for such a custom made repro set.
|Posted by: mihnea January 26, 2006 06:50 pm|
| Thanks Claudiu, something is strange, very strange, exactly the same kit was for sale a few months ago and was sold!?
There is something fishy with this thing; see this: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2360&st=60
So potential buyers be aware!!
|Posted by: darius1941 January 26, 2006 11:02 pm|
| The gentleman who is selling the reproduction uniform on ebay return my email early this morning with a answer to my question.
I asked him what the cost would be for the tunic,trouser,leggings,gasmask bag and breadbag.
These are the items which I would like too buy and he quoted a price of $250.00,shipping not included.
Even his original price of $350.00 is not bad at all,(To buy a good reprodution german tunic you are talking that price or higher).
But if any of you guys have any thoughts about how honest this guy is,please let us know as I rather be safe than sorry in this kind of dealings!
Rhaught has been in contact with another gentleman at the museum and this may be a better source to find what we need.
I have had 3 dealing with guys over in romania concerning buying items and two of the deals went very well with no problems!
The last deal I am still not sure of as the guy said he sent the item out but it never arrive!
He had more items too sell but I did not buy anything else and dropped contact with him.
To bad as his father was in the romanian army and he told me the story about how they feed Dog meat to some german soldier when they demanded pig meat!!!
You do not find those kind of story in the books to offen.
|Posted by: RHaught January 27, 2006 09:33 am|
Maybe contact the buyer of the last auction to see if they got it without any problems. If people got ripped off then they are usually willing to tell others!
|Posted by: Kepi January 31, 2006 12:57 pm|
| Czech reenactors playing romanian WW2 soldiers.
Even if the uniforms and equipment are not very accurate, their enthousism is very moving.
They could be invited for the Museum “Open Gates” show.
|Posted by: mihnea January 31, 2006 02:13 pm|
Not this year, this year the "Open Gates" will have the 1877-Independence theme.
To find the page you have to access “KVH 43.p.pl. Brno” link in the site posted by Kepi (to find it easier: Ctrl+F to open the search menu).
PS Some one should tell them about the red star in white circle from their truck.
|Posted by: RHaught January 31, 2006 09:09 pm|
|Isn't that Italian cammo those two guys have on?|
|Posted by: Kepi February 01, 2006 11:52 am|
Italian camouflage jackets were not common to Romanian soldiers during WW2. There was not a camouflage scheme in the Romanian army. However, different types of captured (german, hungarian) camouflage items were sometimes carried.
|Posted by: RHaught February 05, 2006 04:21 am|
|Appears to be more for living history then reenacting. Nothing like getting up in the mud, grabbing your gear, heading off for 24 hours of "combat" and heading home red eyed and tired (this happens to me more in WWI than WWII). Also, has anyone bought items/uniforms from the man at the National Military Museum? What about the quality? Will be stopping to purchase items for the kit there since it seems he has items that are near to the originals. Coming for 3 weeks this summer so if anyone can let me know any good places around Iasi to maybe find some items that are original would be useful as well.|
|Posted by: mihnea February 05, 2006 06:49 am|
I agree with you. I would love to see more reenactments and fewer living history events. But this is how it is in continental Europe, in the west there are no reenactments as there are few German reenactors.
For example in the '90s there was a huge reenactment at Waterloo in Belgium but some reenactors got drunk and started some fights so from that moment onwards the reenactment was banned.
Here in the east are more reenactments, you should have seen Austerlitz 2005 that was huge but it had also some living history events.
Because of the lack of money the best sponsor remains the army but the army wants more living history and more public than sating alone over night in a trench. Also the gun laws are very hard in many eastern countries, compared to the ones in the states.
|Posted by: mihnea February 05, 2006 07:07 am|
The MMN shop has great equipment at good prices, has only military equipment. I recommend this shop to everybody. It is far better than the shops from Covaci street, that have big prices (but if you come in Bucharest you have to go there, sometimes you can find bargains).
|Posted by: Carol I February 06, 2006 07:11 am|
The ban was not permanent as the battle was recreated as recently as June 2005: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4110194.stm.
|Posted by: RHaught February 07, 2006 10:25 pm|
so it is a must for the NMM; what about the shops you mentioned? believe that the 2nd day there going to see Dragos at the museum to get the uniform and gear however would like to get a mountain troop beret as well, any suggestions?
enjoyed the Waterloo article, thanks Carol
some of my friends went in 2002 to reenact the Lost Battalion, too bad I wasn't doing WWI then since I would have loved to go
|Posted by: mihnea February 07, 2006 10:44 pm|
| If you want a original mountain troop beret it is very hard to find, but for any kind of uniform parts (beret, caps, insignia etc) ask Dragos.
The shops I mentioned are in the old part of town on Covaci street (in fact the center) you should go there as I said you can find very interesting things if you are lucky and know were to look.
|Posted by: Cantacuzino February 08, 2006 03:33 am|
The truck used looks like an original Phanomen Granit. And ofcourse the star in white dot should be Khaky color (not red).
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 12, 2006 04:18 pm|
| Well, maybe I should get into reenactment as well. I allready have some pieces of kit that will suit a repro of a romanian uniform:
Bread bag- post war for now, but it would do until I can get my hand on a real ww2 one.
Mess kit- same as bread bag.
Ammo pouches- original ww2, unfortunately one of them is very damaged. (stitching gone undone, etc) I should get myself new ones.
Bayonet-I have a number of K98s in varying states of preservation, unfortunately none of them has a frog. Luckly, I think I might be able to make myself a repro at a leather shop.
Gas mask-I have an extra german canister, and I think I might be able to get a romanian military M35 from a friend (either buy it or lease it).
Canteen-As with the bayonets, I have a number of german canteens, so this should not pose a problem.
Uniform-(cap, shirt, trousers, putees) Fortunately, I might be able to purchase a good quality repro from MMN.
Helmet-I think I saw some at MMN, if not, I'll go scouring the "Antique Shops" on Covaci. Anyway, I've seen much more pictures of romanian soldiers fighting with caps instead of helmets, so it's not imperative that I get one.
Y straps-Now we hit a snag- I've never seen original Y straps for sale anywhere in Romania. Mihnea, where did you get yours from?
Boots-Same as with Y straps
Entrenching tool-I saw some on Covaci or in other various "Antique Shops" so it shouldn't be too hard to get a hold on. For the carrying leather, I can always make myself a replica at a leather shop, or get a repro off the net.
Belt-I belive post war one would do nicely, and WW2 era belt buckes are easy to find.
Grenades-I found some replicas on the net, including http://www.airsoftscotland.com/acatalog/Replica_props_.html, but since my father has a small modelling lathe, I wonder If I can't build my own out of wood. (and also Rg34 and RG4 Czech grenades and Russian RD33's, not only German M24-39s)
Rifle-Well, there's http://www.waffenostheimer.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=970 guy... An exact replica of the Mauser K98, in 6mm airsoft. And only 399 euros, too . Well, it is as close to the real thing as you can get without getting an actual one, so it's worth it. Also, I belive there are no special laws regulating the possesion of airsoft rifles, (else you wouldn't see people selling cheap chinese airsoft guns at Obor) although I should get myself a "cetificat de detinator" to cover it just in case, since this replica is made in metal and wood, just like the real thing, and even has mock cardrige cases to eject every time you pull the bolt. (see some more information on this gun http://www.skirmish.at/reviews/marushin_kar98k_maxi/)
|Posted by: mihnea February 12, 2006 04:49 pm|
First can you post pictures of what equipment you have?
Y-straps: from the MMN shop you can get everything (my is from there)
Entrenching tool you can use the Austrian WWI you already have and get a repro holder from the MMN shop he can also make you a bayo frog and repair the ammo pouche.
Belt: use a communist era one, you don't need a different buckle most of the WWII ones were without the crown and painted black.
Grenades: I can give you the measurements from my German one also made of wood (see the picture)
Rifle: the airsoft replicas are good to show off but it lacks the loud bang of the real thing.
Boots: good ones are hard to find; the ones produced nowadays don't resemble the ones from WWII.
The Czech RG34 and MAN one are original WWII and very hard to find in Romania.
|Posted by: RHaught February 13, 2006 12:19 pm|
|Think I am going to go with Dragos at the NMM. Going to go there the 2nd day upon arrival and get the things I need for basic kit then go hunting through the shops. Anyone know of good sources in Iasi?|
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 14, 2006 11:07 pm|
| Here's an update on the equimpment I have sofar for my reenactment uniform:
Bread bag - I think it's postwar, but I'm not sure. Some of the details are unlike any of the other bread bags I've seen, so I'll let you guys be the judges of that.
Marking on the inside of the flap, on the lower mess tin strap fitting. The stamp on the upper fitting is unreadable.
Mess kit + Canteen - The mess kit is probably from the '60s. No markings of any kind, and the paintjob is rough and sloppy.
The canteen is the german SMM41 I've mentioned earlier on this forum, and it lacks the cup.
Ammo pouches - Unfortunately, not only are the ammo pouches damaged, but they're not even army issue. Their black coloration suggest their use in either the navy or airforce.
The first one is more or less intact, despite being severely bent out of shape.
Here you can see the type of damage present on the second one.
Bayonet + Entrenching tool - The bayonet is a K98 without frog (probably I'll use the one in the middle of this photograph), and the entrenching tool a WW1 era Austro-Hungarian one that lacks a carrying leather. I'll try to get repros made at the MMN shop.
Gas mask - As I learned from Mr Serbanescu during my visit at MMN today, although the military M35/39 gasmasks were carried in a canvas pouch and had a tube between the mask itself and the filter, the use of civilian M35s was not at all uncommon, because of a shortage of equipment, so I think I'll use the romanian gasmask cylinder I allready have.
In the pictures below, the one on the left is my FMP cylinder, and on the right is a lease from a friend, an AGV that used to belong to ARR pilot http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2938.
Also, please note the artisanal nature of the sling on my cylinder, made from a piece of green painted burlap and roughly sewn. I can't be sure this intervention was WW2, but it certainly looks old enough, and adds to the overall charm of the piece.
Belt - I have aquired a communist era belt, and I intend to replace the buckle with a WW2 one, as soon as I can get my hands on a satisfactory one. The belt is marked "6 Apr 1971", and except for a few corrosion spots on the edge of buckle, is in an overall good shape. The only thing that worries me is the colour. It's brownish-red, and I'm not sure the WW2 era belts would have had this colouration. What do you think?
Uniform - I went to MMN today, around noon, to see about procuring an uniform as well as the leather parts, but strangely, there was nobody at the militaria shop. I will try again next week, when I come back from Constanta, and hopefully, by the time, the uniform Division of the Museum would have also re-opened for business.
Y straps - same as uniform.
Helmet - I do not have any desire to aquire one at this time. Most of the helmets I've seen lately around Covaci were rather crappy, either empty shells, or badly refitted in the communist era, and all of them, without exception, were heavily weathered.
Boots - That, as always, is a spiky subject. I don't know where to get any boots, but I've been thinking - wouldn't a small leatherworking shop, the type you can still find on Grivitei Street, be able to manufacture me a pair if I provide them with plans?
Grenades- It's decided- I will manufacture them out of wood. Probably I will go for some russian RD33s first, since they have an easier shape and have no visible markings, but I would like to make myself some Rg34s and at least one M24 "Potato Masher"
Rifle - I ran into an american site recently (sorry, can't remember the link right now) that sells used M48 Yugoslavian rifles (postwar bolt action based roughly on the Mauser K98) for as low as $50 . The lowest quality rifles are in dire need of cleaning, and not at all safe to fire, but thay haven't been neutralised, so I guess it would be quite hard for me to get one in Romania. If I can buy myself one, it would be quite a bargain, and able to fire blanks in reenactments, as well.
Another solution would be to get a neutralised one or even a broken airsoft replica, and come up with an electronic way of generating the sound and smoke- for example, the memory stick and mainboard from a cheap digital MP3 player, with the gunshot sound recordeed on it, and activated by pressing the trigger. I think I might be able to hide such a contraption in the butt of the rifle, and only have wires going to the trigger and a speaker mounted in the breech.
Another, simpler way, would be to modify a neutralised rifle to fire caps from commercial toy cap pistols. That takes care of the smoke, but the sound wouldn't be right though.
Also, I have a question for Cristian, and all of you gun collectors out there- can you bring a neutralised gun into the country from outside Romania? What kind of paperwork (if any) do you need? What about an Airsoft replica?
Backpack - Finally, I have one more question: I have this backpack, that used to belong to my late grandfather. He purchased it in the late '40s, and sofar I have been unable to determine if this was a civillian or military issued piece of kit, as well as the date of manufacture.
What do you think, can I use this with my reenactment uniform?
|Posted by: darius1941 February 15, 2006 12:34 am|
| Can anyone tell me about what sort of sizeing that the shop in the museum use for the uniforms?
Would I be able too give him a standard jacket and trouser size which would fit me or dose he need alot more size to make the uniform?
I enjoyed looking at your equipment,wings of wrath!
I wish I could help you with the rifle for reenacting as we have way to many vz-24 for sale here,but no uniforms or proper equipment too reenact ww2 romanian!
That would had made a good trade right there.
What kind of boots are you looking for?
Jackboots or ankleboots? what size do you take??
|Posted by: Cristian February 15, 2006 07:38 am|
Darius 1941, as you can see, the military old rifles for reenacting are quite a problem here in Romania, because is no market for such items. Can you ask a gun dealer there wich are the detailed legal procedures and estimate costs(including transportation and taxes) to send such a gun to Romania,if we order and pay in advance?
|Posted by: Kepi February 15, 2006 10:40 am|
Congratulation for your items of equipment. This could be a good start to reenact a credible WW2 romanian soldier.
I think the bread bag was made in the 1970s as it has stamped the initials M.Ap.N. It looks a little too greenish to me, but it could be a photographic error.
Don’t worry about the colour of the cartridge pouches. Especially during the last years of the war Romanian infantrymen carried everything was available. You only have to repair the undone pouch (it’s easy) and restore their original rectangular shape.
The web strap of the gas mask canister is original and is similar to the strap attached to the bag of the M.35 gas mask.
The knapsack is a civilian model. The WW2 model had a bigger flap, that allowed to attach the helmet. The 1960s army knapsack was similar to the WW2 model, except the helmet attaching straps and the front metallic hooks.
Concerning the MMN shop, unfortunately it is not always open. It’s owner is Dragos Diaconu and I suggest to call him before you come at these numbers: 021 255 53 43, or, better, 0723 02 77 04. He could help you with the uniform, yoke-straps, puttees, etc. He is a nice and serious person and I’m sure that he will help any person interested in reenacting (as he and his brother are among the founders of the 6th Dorobanti Reenacting Group).
If you gather a WW2 soldier attire, you could join that group. They have uniforms for the three major campaigns of the Romanian army. You could ask Prof. Serbanescu of the Military Museum about this. For this year there is nothing planned for WW2 reenactment. In May 2006, during the Museum open gates the theme will be “King Carol I and the Romanian Army” ( the group will wear 1877-78 uniforms) and in September 2006, the reconstruction of the Battle of Arges River (WW1 uniforms).
|Posted by: darius1941 February 19, 2006 12:34 pm|
| I have started my search on gathering information about shipping old military rifles to romania.
The gun shop which I have contacted so far provided no information at all that was helpful.
But I feel this was only because I was not buying a rifle from his shop so he was not going to be helpful too me.
I will still search and post information as I get it.
I have too ask a couple of question about the laws in romania about ownership of rifles.
So far I have read that a permit is needed to own a rifle is that all there is to it or do you need other pappers?
Is it legal too assemble a rifle from"parts"?
Can you find any parts over in romania?
Is it legal for the shipping of parts into romania?
Any information would help me here.
I would like too ask a few question on reenacting over in romania.
1)Has anyone thought about starting a"Event"for the ww2 reenactors to gather and do a little reenacting?
2)Do you need permits for such a event?
3)Can you find anyone too reenact red army soldiers?
4)Is there private property where such a event can be held without anyone thinking
it is a "para military" get together?
5) would you guys like too spend the weekend there,with the tents ect?
Let me know your feeling on the subject.
|Posted by: calarasi February 19, 2006 05:27 pm|
| Hello everyone,
I was hoping my next post I would have good news for us reenactors on this board, unfortunately last week I received Drogos Diaconu's kit he had on auction on eBay and I have to say I'm quite surprised because he comes highly recommended by a prominent person at the Museum in Bucharest. I thought that since a few of you were thinking of buying too that my review would be important to you, so as not to make the same mistake:
The kit cost 350 dollars + 70 or so to ship, but I think after you see the pics those of you who live in the States will be reminded of that old saying "you get what you pay for" (in this case it's even worse) and so I'm more disappointed that I let myself get carried away by my enthusiasm (asked to join Horia's Group in Bucharest) and the thought of what seemed a real good deal than I'm surprised by what I got. If it seems too good to be true it probably is.
1) the gas mask bag : synthetic modern olive drab fabric with a, unbelievable, look for yourself, green nylon strap. The leather roundel as you can see is badly sewn on and with lots of skipped stitches which is the trademark of the whole kit.
2) The bread bag like the one shown above, at least it looks like cotton.
3) leather equipment: very thin leather/thread that will rip with use (if you are an active reenactor), the frog was already so badly sewn that as you can see the stitches are coming apart (no stop sticth on one side). The ammo pouches were the worst rvelation of all maybe, thin leather lined with thick CARDBOARD. I'll let you guess what happens when you reenact in this gear, lifespan of a fruitfly.
4) The uniform: wool quality un-impressive, lots of skipped stitches everywhere, bad sewing and bunching up of fabric as you can see by the pics. I'm posting a pic of the field hat liner where in two places the sewing machine couldn't make it thru the fabric apparently, it's currently unworn and unstitched as received. Same you can see on the inside of the tunic cuffs, etc. The size was wrong too, the hat was supposed to be a 58 and I think I got 60-61. The shoulders on the tunic don't allow for any movement as it pulls (it's fine if I stand with my arms down). Breast pockets stitching are loose. Even the puttees same thin modern coat looking wool cut badly with jagged edges.
|Posted by: calarasi February 19, 2006 05:28 pm|
The wool also has a strong chemical small to it, fills the room, moth balls maybe. I will try to end on a positive note, it was produced and shipped fast, thanks Dragos!!
What I want to know is how could this happen with important people highly recommending him. If I had paid a local woman to make it off some pictures I would have spent the same or less and gotten something that would not break up in different places with use. It wouldn't have been authentic but I could wear it. But I trusted some folks and wanted to have it authentic and save a couple of bucks. Ok lesson learned. I hope this helps some of you.
|Posted by: mihnea February 19, 2006 08:17 pm|
| I'm sorry to hear your complains and I apologize that I recommended him. But I don't know what happened.
Everybody that has seen the mannequin at the shop can say that things looked different there.
|Posted by: darius1941 February 20, 2006 12:01 am|
| I just read the posting about the uniform and I am sorry too hear about quality of the kit!
Anyone have any suggestion for us guys in the states?
RHaught was planning on getting the entire kit when he visit romania this summer and I was planning on getting half the items to up-grade my impression.
I have worked with wool on my sewing machine and it is a nice fabric too work with!
If you have to sew in lining then you would find a lining which is more compatible and try too prevent the skip stiches.
Of course there is setting on the machine to adjust pressure so the thread is straighten out as the fabric gose through the foot.
What about the belt/buckle and the helmet?
Is the belt leather as bad as the ammo pouch?
Did you have a size choice on the helmet?
Any chance of buying the fabic by the yard?
The life span of such of a uniform would be indeed short as tactical reenacting is hard on the fabric and equipment.
Plus you are sleeping in the uniform for a couple of days with sweat,mud,and camp fire smoke getting into the material as well.
If you do have local ladies who are good at sewing and can offer these uniforms at a lower cost then let me know please.
|Posted by: Kepi February 20, 2006 07:31 am|
I’m sorry to hear that you are disappointed by the quality of the kit. What are you saying and showed on the Forum is most eloquent. It’s nothing else to say except that I’m in a very embarrassing position. I recommended Dragos Diaconu as a correct person because he was very fair and helpful in equipping the 6th Dorobanti reenactment group. The uniforms he produced were comfortable and suitable for the group activities and the price was reasonable for the Romanian standards. There were no complains. The replica uniform he displayed on the Museum shop looks OK (but I don’t know the price).
I have no idea about the trade he was doing abroad, nor the quality of the kit he offered. As I said before, your dissatisfaction is perfectly justified. I think that Dragos should return your payment as you are not satisfied by the goods he sold you. But I’m not his defender and I only hope that he will act as an honourably person.
I only want to note that all my assertions on this Forum had in view to encourage the reenactment movement in Romania and the collecting and saving of old militaria items. Several times I posted detailed drawings of the Romanian uniforms and equipment carried on WW2, in order that any interested person could make his own uniform. I always highly recommended to use real (WW2 or post war) items of equipment (cartridge pouches, waist belts, bread bags, mess kits, helmets), as they still could be easily found in the antique shops for reasonable prices. Even for the gas masks I recommended the Romanian M39 model or the german one, as the original M.35 is almost impossible to find. Unfortunately the cloth parts of the uniforms have to be reconstructed and this is the weak part of the problem.
|Posted by: RHaught February 20, 2006 08:00 pm|
that is correct, ticket in hand as I type, just need to apply for new passport since mine runs out at the end of this month
going in person to see what I pay for so I know what I get, learned this the last time in romania when I didn't listen to my wife or in-laws
Kepi, can you email me those plans for uniform, etc.? my wife's grandfather knows a person who is a tailor but will need to get the wool material from somewhere so any suggestions would be great, in bucharest or Iasi for material.
|Posted by: RHaught February 20, 2006 08:03 pm|
the more the hobby picks up the more the competition for better materials/items will arise which will force the less than perfect vendors to be ignored or out of business
|Posted by: darius1941 February 22, 2006 10:30 am|
| Just a few thoughts on the subject of the reproduction uniform being sold by that gentleman at the museum.
The problems with the uniform can be corrected with time and more practice at sewing if this guy is doing the work himself.
Of course the sizeing of the uniform should be more standardize so someone can order the set with standard tunic,trouser,and cap size.
As if you were at the store buying clothes of the rack.
Having a tailor uniform is a nice thought but there is not a army in the world where the enlisted man is offered tailor uniforms.
I also feel that this gentleman could really have a monopoly on the matter of reproduction romanian uniform as no one else at present is making them.
There was a time many years ago when reproduction german uniforms were hard to come by.
What you could buy was not of high quality but that all change with time and the market is now flooded with reproduction.
And now you have the imports comming in from asia at a even lower price.
I can not say too much on the equipment as the faults were seen by all on the forum.
Most of the items everyone is finding on their own one way or the other,mostly original or postwar.
I think the low quality of the repro equipment hurt this guy more than anything.
RHaught if you find that messkit in that cellar,please look for a breadbag in the other corner for me even if it is postwar.
|Posted by: RHaught February 22, 2006 11:13 pm|
| I'll look in the cellars for sure but won't promise anything!
What about using the wool that is used for the AEF uniforms at Schipperfabrik to make a uniform? Seems to be of the right color and material is top notch!
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 24, 2006 05:51 pm|
| A small update on my reenactment equipment.
I fitted a modern belt bucle from wich I removed the eagle to my communist era belt. It looks pretty good, but it has a couple of ugly holes where the eagle was. What do you think, should I stick with this, fill out the holes and maybe try to repaint it in a matching black or give up and search the antique shops for an original buckle?
Also, I visited the uniform divison of the MMN today, and was astonished to see a cavalry uniform with a belt style I know has been used in WW1. I have one at home, from my gerat-grandfather, that fought in WW1 on both Austro-Hungarian and Romanian sides:
Another question I wanted to ask you uniform experts out there- the uniforms on display at MMN are of a different shade of fabric from the repros sold at the shop downstairs- are the uniforms in the museum original, or replicas?
Also, wouldn't it be easier to reenact a sub-machinegunner instead of a rifleman? From what I see in the ww2 pictures, the soldiers sporting sub-machineguns don't have Y-straps (since those connect to the d-rings on the clip pouches) and only a german style canvas mag bag slung around their shoulder. Aditionally, a replica Mp40 would be a lot easier to come by- I've seen good quality ABS plastic reproductions that look metal even close up. As for the sound and smoke, I'm sure some electronic devices might do the trick. Another plus of a sub-machinegunner would be the fact that he wouldn't need a bayonet (so I won't have to manufacture a new frog for one of mine), and all the pictures I saw show the entreching tool worn without a carrying leather.
Another question would be that of in-the field modifications a soldier might impose on his equipment- for example, a lot of photographs show romanian infantrymen with traditional sheep's wool hats instead of reguar army issue ones. Should I be aiming for one of these instead of the normal uniform?
|Posted by: Kepi February 25, 2006 10:31 am|
| Wing of wrath,
I think the belt plate without the badge is OK. However, the holes must be filled up somehow, then the plate must be repainted black. Another possibility is to use the two holes to attach a crown, as it was regulation and was carried by many soldiers during the war. Of course, an original belt plate (plain or decorated with a crown) will be better, if you could find one somewhere.
The officer belt is of 1939 pattern, very similar to the british officer model. The diagonal strap and the sword slings are missing. It was never carried by cavalry troops. During WW2 all other ranks, no matter the branch of service, carried waist belts fastened in front with a rectangular plate. Old models, with a rectangular buckle, carried on the left hip, were also used.
Some of the uniforms displayed in the Museum’s exhibition are original (especially the officers’ dress since 1895), other are copies (almost all the uniforms between 1830-1895 and the greatest part of the other ranks’ since 1895). The WW2 soldiers uniforms are mostly copies, produced during the 1970s and 1980s from the communist period cloth. This was more greenish than the WW2 period.
But the difference of shades of cloth was frequent in the Romanian army. If you look at several tunics of the same period, is very difficult to find two of the same shade of khaki, with the same cut, buttons, etc. There were many small producers who make uniforms for the army and the reception commissions were lenient enough to accept some derogation from the conditions of contract.
Differences in the shade of cloth and the cut of uniforms was not a characteristic only of the Romanian army. In many armies soldiers wore different variant of dress within the same unit, according the supplying facilities, the extent of wear or the personal taste of the wearier. This gives personality to a re-enactor.
It is an interesting idea to reenact a squad or platoon commander of WW2, e.g. to carry a sub-machinegun. Then you must have the rank of Corporal or Sergeant. However, this would be possible only after some months of service as a Private, if you want to behave as a real re-enactor. Romanian small-unit commanders were equipped with a wide range of sub-machineguns: M. 1938A Beretta, MP 40, M.1941 Orita, etc. The magazine pouches were again of a great variety of models. But for your MP 40 you could use german style triple magazine pouches.
|Posted by: darius1941 February 25, 2006 01:10 pm|
| Rhaught would you please tell me more about the material which you mentioned in
your last posting?
I had never heard of this place before.
Do they sell the fabric by the yard?
The great thing about reenacting is that unless you join a unit that wants you dress and equip yourself a certain way then you are free too set up your impression any way you wish to.
I have set up my romanian impression as a common infranrty man who you would find in any infrantry div.
There is thrills in no thrills as some of us say.
RHaught has said that he wish too do mountain troops and Iam sure a few other guys in this forum have their own idear as to what they wish too do.
I had the rank of senior corporal (German) in the unit I belong to and just had a K-98 mauser as my weapon.
The holding of this rank gave me a mission too patrol a part of woods about a mile away from the command center.
Four other soldier were assign to me and off we went across the open field reaching the woods and I had notice on my right flank a large group of allied troops moving in our direction.
I took my group into the woods and very soon we were taking heavy fire from the allied who I had notice on my right and to my surprise we were taking fire from the left also.
Another large group of british soldier enter the fight against us and if you ever read or seen movies were the troops are unable to move due to heavy weapons fire this was one of those times.
Myself and my four other comrades were dead within minutes and afterward I guess we were up against 30 to 40 american and british soldier who took a real delight in our being killed.
I had a guy in my squard who had a blank firing mp-40 and I think he was next to last to be killed.
Now here is the other story when I was a romanian soldier and was part of a mortar squad(German).
I carried the tube and that was a extra 40lbs.
As we were getting up too move out,our backs were toward a certain part of the woods and a red army soldier armed with a ppsh-41 worked his way behind us germans,I believe there was about 20 of us and this red army soldier fired his weapon and used up his entire magizine.
He caught us standing and if this was "real life"he would have had a high kill rate.
You just never know what will happen.
|Posted by: RHaught February 25, 2006 04:30 pm|
| Here is the link to Paul Schippers site.
Believe that the material would be good for a uniform. Go to American section and uniforms. He has a close up of his wool
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 25, 2006 07:56 pm|
| Thanks Kepi for your advice.
Apparently, my choice to reenact a squad leader seems to be forced one- lets' face it, is just plain easier to get the gear together!
However, I still have a question: were all soldiers armed with sub-machineguns squad leaders? because I have some photograps (some of them apear on this site as well) that seem to show enlisted men sporting such weapons. Of course, most of those pictures are post 23 August '44, and I plan to reenact a mid-war infantryman, but still...
Today I went and spoke to the gentleman that runs the MMN shop to see about getting my reenacting uniform done. He just got a new shipment of caps, done by a textiles manufacturing firm from Galati.
The thing you notice right away is the ugly plastic button in front where a metal one should be, but other than that they look good quality and fit nicely. Another thing that bugged me was the color. It's close to number 4 in this picture:
I know for a fact that there would have been diferences in the fabric used to make the actual WW2 uniforms, but was this color ever use for field gear?
Also, it apears that right now he doesn't have any other type of fabric in stock, so any uniform manufactured will be the same color. In terms of price it will be 400 RON (4,000,000 ROL) for the tunic, trousers, cap and putees.
So, what do you think, should I get my uniform done now, or wait for better fabric? It would take about a week to tailor it, and the earliest reenacting I plan to do this spring is the MMN's Open Gates on May the 13th, when I plan to show up in full uniform, despite the fact that this year's event will have an 1877 theme.
Also, I have found a gentleman that's willing to make me a pair of boots following specifications, and pretty cheap too, at only 100 RON (1,000,000 ROL- by sheer comparison, I just spent 350 RON on a pair of mountaineering boots)
The only problem is the fact I don't have any detailed plans to give him.
Kepi, since you're the expert in this field, could you add some dimensions to that drawing you posted earlier on this board?
|Posted by: darius1941 February 26, 2006 01:19 am|
| I went too the web site for schipperfabrik and I think the wool used for the american uniforms would work.
Do you think he would make the uniforms or should we just buy the fabric from him?
It is a nice ww1 site for uniforms!
Wings of Wrath if you can wait a little longer for the uniform then maybe a better source of wool can be found!
I was planning on getting the uniform from the guy at the museum also but he did not get a good review on this forum by a member who bought the entire kit.
The color of wool he is now useing for his uniforms and caps looks more"German" and I am guessing that he just wants too use any wool on hand so long as he can produce the uniforms in a hurry.
When you were at the museum did you have a chance too look at his repro romanian uniform on display?
Where did those czech reenactors get their uniforms?
Anyone know if these came from the museum or somewhere else?
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 26, 2006 09:58 am|
| Aparently, the wool he used to make the reproduction uniforms is no longer available, and that's why he is using the greener stuff until he can find a suitable replacement.
Indeed the uniform Calarasi bought looks pretty bad, and that baffles me, because all the stuff I've seen in the MMN shop is top notch quality. Maybe that uniform was one of the first few Dragos Diaconu ever made, and that's why it was so bad?
Anyway, the good thing with buying stuff at an actual shop as opposed to doing that online is the fact that you can check the quality of the product firsthand, before you pay for it, and if it's not satisfactory, you can just leave it.
|Posted by: RHaught February 26, 2006 11:45 am|
I too believe it would work for a uniform. Will ask him if he would make them or if possible to sell by the yard. As I also stated earlier, going to the museum in person to see what I buy first, look at finished product then decide if I should buy or not.
As for color, maybe we can look into dye's here in the states unless you already tried it and doesn't work.
|Posted by: darius1941 February 26, 2006 01:27 pm|
| Years ago before the reenactors market had all of these nice reproduction German Tunics,alot of guys were taking the swedish wool tunics and converting them over to look German and then Dyeing them with store bought Dye,myself included.
They look pretty good at first but with constant use the Dye color seem to fade from the material.
That could be that the wool was never meant to be Dyed after the tunic was made
or maybe the Dyes are not strong enuff to last in that fabric.
It is pretty much guess work.
I would like too find a source for the correct color wool and a source who can make these uniform at around the cost of what that gentleman at the museum is selling them at.
At those prices then maybe a secound set of uniform can be bought to make sure that we can have a extra uniform on hand.
There may be some good explanations as to way calarasi recieved a uniform which
he was not happy with.
It may had indeed been a early tunic that the guy had sewn and did not have all the"Bugs"worked out.
Calarasi if you are reading this posting what decision did you make about the uniform?
Are you returning it ,keeping it or would you re-sell it?
I have not heard anyone talking about the breadbag which the museum is selling.
Is this as bad as the gasmask bag or is it better?
|Posted by: dragosdd February 26, 2006 02:12 pm|
|Hello all of you!I am the one (Dragos Diaconu) that made the uniform for Calarasi.Full refund was sent to Calarasi (he already picked up the money) and as we agree I should receive the set back!I would like that Calarasi to confirm this on the forum and also on my email!And an answer :I didn't make the uniforms for the czech reenactors!|
|Posted by: darius1941 February 26, 2006 03:24 pm|
| Hello Dragosdd! Can you shed some light on the matter of the uniforms which you are selling?
I have a few question which I would like too ask you and maybe we can have a better understanding as to what direction too go in as far as the uniforms are concern.
Have you change the wool which you are useing too make these uniforms?
Wings of Wrath has mention that the color looks more like the NO.4 sample in his posting and from what I can see it has a"Green"color to it,it looks more like the German wool.
Getting the correct size may be a problem.
Iam here in the states and as you know getting the proper size would be very important.
When I order my German uniform I go on these sizes Tunic size 46,Trouser w-40,L
33 and the cap would be a size 60.
Can you work with these sizes?
What cost are we talking about here for these 3 items,plus shipping?
And how would you accept payment for these items?
This uniform would be put through the rigors of reenacting as I would be sleeping and fighting in it so it would not take long for the set to have that "worn"look to it and how it stands up to the punishment of this hobby if another concern
Thanks for any help.
|Posted by: mihnea February 26, 2006 03:26 pm|
My advice is to fill with welding the two holes and then remove the surplus weld and re paint it satin black.
If you found a shoemaker in Bucharest that can make old style boots with natural sole and hobnails I would also be interested, please PM me.
|Posted by: Kepi February 26, 2006 05:14 pm|
| Wings of wreath,
In the Romanian army, especially during the first years of WW2, only squad and platoon leaders were equipped with sub-machineguns. The greatest part of the rank and file carried rifles. So to create a credible WW2 romanian soldier you have to fit your weapon with your rank. Do you intend to join the 6th Dorobanti group or you’ll intend to create your own group? In the first case you have to respect the rules of the group and start your career as a rifleman recruit and in the second case you have to decide what unit would you reenact, the rules (regulation) of the group and what will be your position within the group. As you probably know, to be a re-enactor means to have a good knowledge of drill, training, etc. The members of the 6th Dorobanti group have already reached a good level of training for any of the three wars (1877-78, 1916-18, 1941-45) and they could perform a wide range of movements according the respective regulations. They are training now for the Museum “Open Gates”, according the 1876 infantry regulation.
If you intend to create a new group which will deal with the WW2, this is a great idea. You have to find other two or three enthousiasts and start organize the new unit. Professor Serbanescu of the Military Museum, who was also the initiator of the 6th Dorobanti group could be a good source of information and could advice you on this matter. More Romanian reenacting groups means more possibilities to develop different living history projects in Romania. The Military Museum is willing to support this kind of activities.
Concerning your question I think that colour Nr. 4 is too green. Maybe Dragos finally would find the appropriate colour, closer to the samples Nr. 2 or Nr.3. It’s up to you to decide how soon do you need the uniform.
Interesting piece of news concerning the laced boots. The foot gear is always a problem. I’ll post some photos of the Romanian M.1939 laced boots.
I wonder if the shoe maker could also make a pair of jack boots?
|Posted by: Kepi February 26, 2006 05:22 pm|
|Posted by: Wings_of_wrath February 26, 2006 06:31 pm|
| Kepi:Joining the 6th Dorobanti group would be the best option. Starting from the bottom up and making actual drills is more realistic and far better than just dressing up as as soldier. Plus, I don't think I've got enough logistics to start my own reenactment group, not to mention volunteers.
I will talk to Mr Serbanescu tomorrow, and see if I can join the group.
Apparently, in the matter of the uniform, the only viable option would be to wait for now. The repro on display at the MMN shop is indeed the right colour, and that type of wool is bound to re-apear someday.
As for the shoes, I will print out the pictures and drawing, and see if that guy I talked to earlier is still up to the job. If not, I can always look for another shop, preferably with an older shoemaker.
Mihnea: there's no need to weld the buckle- my plan was from the beginning to fill out the holes with epoxi resin, smooth it out with fine sandpaper and then repaint it. Hopefully, my experience as a modeler will come in handy.
|Posted by: Claudiu1988 February 28, 2006 04:29 pm|
| I have this uniform from a military unit, can it be used as a ww2 reenactor uniform? It only has some comunist buttons, the rest are brown.
|Posted by: Claudiu1988 February 28, 2006 04:31 pm|
|Posted by: Kepi March 01, 2006 06:24 pm|
| This tunic was adopted at the end of 1950s, when Romanian communist authorities have decided to abandon the M.1952 Soviet style uniform (with “rubashka”) as a symbol of pseudo-independence from Moscow. They have selected the M. 1924 model.
This pattern of tunic was also carried during WW2, especially by second line or reserve troops. The greatest part of Romanian soldiers carried M.1939 tunics and uniforms.
You could use this tunic for reenacting a WW2 romanian private but you have to replace the RSR metallic buttons with plain metallic ones, blackened or painted khaki, and eliminate (sew) the rear slit which didn’t exist that time.
The cuffs should be pointed not round, but this is too difficult to transform.
During the Museum “open gates” of last year, the squad that make demonstrations of drill and shooting, composed of soldiers of the 30th Guard Regiment, wore this kind of tunics.
|Posted by: RHaught March 07, 2006 10:52 pm|
|If the tunic is useable for reenacting, where would be a good source to find one?|
|Posted by: RHaught March 15, 2006 09:58 pm|
| Found this place for a source of wool. Which one do you think would be the best color to match WWII?
|Posted by: Kepi March 16, 2006 06:39 am|
| Unfortunately, none.
The communist era other ranks uniforms still might be a solution, but these are very rare. I learned that from time to time, Romtehnica ( http://www.romtehnica.com.ro/ ), the official and unique Romanian Army seller, auctions old stocks of this kind of uniforms still existing in some army depots. The last auction was in December 2005.
|Posted by: Kepi March 23, 2006 10:41 am|
Just for my curiosity I would like to know if the problem of the quarreled replica WW2 uniform was solved. I wonder if Calarasi got his money back and if he returned the uniform and equipment to Dragos.
This elucidation is most necessary if we have to deal with honest people.
|Posted by: Cristian June 18, 2006 12:06 pm|
| Link to militaria sources worldwide
|Posted by: RHaught June 20, 2006 07:28 pm|
|Has anyone heard if Dragos has correct colored wool for the uniforms? Leving in 8 days for Iasi and will have about 3 or 4 in Bucharest when I first get there.|
|Posted by: Kepi June 21, 2006 06:39 am|
|I don’t know, but a mannequin dressed in a ww2 replica uniform is still on display in the Military Museum souvenirs shop. I think you should ask him on firstname.lastname@example.org|
|Posted by: RHaught June 21, 2006 10:49 am|
Will try to get a response but Darius also emailed about a wool sample and never received it after being told it was mailed. I have found that it is best to go in person (a professor from University of Iasi is meeting us at the airport) and do business that way.
|Posted by: Kepi June 21, 2006 12:02 pm|
|I think you should inform him when you’ll go at the Museum, in order to find him there. Usually his father is the vendor behind the desk but he knows nothing about uniforms & equipment and … he doesn’t speak english. Maybe is better if your friend from the University of Iasi, could call him and arrange a meeting at the Museum shop.|
|Posted by: RHaught June 24, 2006 08:20 pm|
| I emailed him and asked about Friday June 30th. No one knowing English will not be a problem since my father-in-law is with me as well as my wife's grandfather. If anyone else knows how to contact him can you please do so?
|Posted by: Kepi June 25, 2006 05:48 am|
|The museum is open between 9.00 am and 5.00 pm (you could enter until 4.00 pm). When do you think you could go there? I think is the best around midday. I’ll try to inform Dragos, also by phone, about your coming on Friday, June 30th.|
|Posted by: RHaught June 25, 2006 02:38 pm|
Just found out that we are heading to Iasi for a wedding when we land. We will be in Bucharest July 17th/18th until July 20th when we leave for NYC. Can PM me here on the forum and will send my personal email.
|Posted by: RHaught July 14, 2006 08:56 pm|
|Ok, heading to the shop and museum on July 19th around 11 AM. Can someone PM or email me the list of items to complete the gear aspect of the impression? Forgot it and can't retrieve it here in Romania for some reason from the US. Also, what about boots? Saw somewhere some pics but can someone send detailed information on them? Might be able to get them made here but incase I can't would like to get them made in New York.|
|Posted by: RHaught July 24, 2006 01:33 pm|
What do you think about the Swedish boots listed here at WEP?
|Posted by: mihnea July 24, 2006 02:00 pm|
| That is the model that I'm talking about, I have a pair, but they were used in the army fortunately before putting them into storage they were repaired so the sole was brand new when I bought them.
I bought my pare from Belgium last year for only 15euros
Since I bought them I have only cleaned them and polished with old style shoe polish from Kiwi.
Here are some pictures:
They have been used on earth and on concrete, (result: they need hobnails on earth but not on concrete ), also I have been with them in 4cm of water and they have no leeks.
|Posted by: RHaught July 24, 2006 02:32 pm|
|There are more boots on the 3rd page of the link I posted. These were the ones I was looking at.|
|Posted by: RHaught July 24, 2006 09:38 pm|
Heard that Dragos never received the items back.
|Posted by: RHaught August 01, 2006 02:51 pm|
Does anyone know if these are still available for purchase?
|Posted by: mihnea August 01, 2006 03:09 pm|
|Some of them are here: http://militaria.histoireetcollections.com/anciens-numeros.html . You can find them also at French book-shops (that also sell old books) and at militaria fairs in europe.|
|Posted by: RHaught August 01, 2006 03:14 pm|
| Here are the boots I can find for sell:
Here are 1940's boots but unfortunately they do not have them in correct size:
|Posted by: mihnea August 01, 2006 03:26 pm|
| Don't forget to mention the source of the pictures: http://www.wephaus.com/products.asp?cat=11&pg=2 .
For Romanian WWII boots you can choose between Swedish WWII type boots or German WWII repro low boots. But the Swedish ones are a closer match.
|Posted by: RHaught August 01, 2006 03:30 pm|
German boots are mostly reproduction and at least $125 a pair so I am going with the Swedish boots at a lot less cost
Thought I did link WEP earlier
|Posted by: RHaught August 11, 2006 06:46 pm|
| UPDATE on NMM Uniforms
Just received email from Dragos and he found some wool like what he has on display at the museum, just needs to color it. Would contact him while he has it
He also said this was close to what he had http://www.woolrichfabrics.com/mysql/detail.asp?id=58 but found out the company will make what you want. Send them a swatch of wool and color to them and they will make it for a 400 yard minimum order. Might be good way to go but would raise cost of the kit most likely
|Posted by: RHaught October 03, 2006 10:03 pm|
Are there any European sites that have them for sale? Only found one here in the US.
|Posted by: Agarici July 29, 2008 12:32 pm|
A few question for the uniform experts:
- What was the use/role of/for these leggings? Were the M 1939 boots lower than, say, those used by the British at the time (without leggings, as far as I know) or that the boots used in the Romanian army before 1989? What would be an appropriate Romanian translation for leggings, “ghetre”? In fact, why were the puttees used during the period (and earlier)? I read somewhere that it was in order to keep the lower leg stiffer and to prevent injuries during marches is that right?
- Were the Romanian boots and leggings brown for the army and black for the navy and air force?
- Was there any type of officially designated winter headdress for the Romanian army, during (and especially before) its involvement in WW II? From what I saw in the photos from the period, the traditional “peasant style” fur/wool caps were used, without having even an insignia. Not to mention that, in the eventuality of a trench warfare, the sheer height of that cap would have been a possible handicap and would make its use under the steel helmet impossible. So any idea why, with a monarch obsessed by uniforms and their aspect, and in a country with harsh winters, it was an option for a not so practical design of the winter headgear (not to mention its rather primitive aspect as a piece of modern uniform)?
- What were the official equipment items which the Romanian army junior officers (platoon or company commanders) were supposed to carry during a campaign, in 1939-1940 (or early in the war)? For example, were they issued with a gas mask? Did they (officially or habitually) carry another weapon besides the pistol (an SMG, or before that a rifle)?
|Posted by: mihnea July 29, 2008 02:25 pm|
| - The 1939 uniform used straight pants to be used with leggings, the ones in the drawing. But the 1941 uniform was a come back to the m1924 pants witch were tight on the calf and puttees as they were cheaper to manufacture. Why putties?? I think they were considered sporty wear for hiking etc. in the era. Also to keep mud and little rocks out of the boot. Although the norm in WWII was to sear the boots over the putties although in WWI putties were worn over the boot.
-The boots were black with black leggings for all units except mountain troops that used brown special boots. The WWI and inter war era, boots were swayed in there natural color.
-The fur cap was used until about 42-43 when a Russian type fur cap was introduced. No helmet would stop a rifle bullet in WWII at normal engagement ranges so with or without helmet if you were hit you were dead or badly injured. The traditional fur cap is comfortable and worm, it's simple but effective.
- The NCO's had the same equipment as the soldiers the officers had generally a pistol, binoculars belt with diagonal, map case, gas mask but they could also carry a bread bag, and maybe a Beretta 38A or MP 28, this is for early war.
|Posted by: Agarici July 30, 2008 11:40 am|
| Thank you, Mihnea!
Off-topic now, but continuing the discussion from another section of the forum, does anybody have any data concerning the number and type of SMG’s which existed in the Romanian army in the beginning of WW 2? I’m especially interested in the period until June-July 1940 (the Soviet ultimatum regarding Besserabia), but any estimates for the years before 1941 would be better than nothing.
|Posted by: rixard June 25, 2011 01:14 pm|
If I understand correctly that in your photo only post war bread bags? Thank you.
|Posted by: mihnea June 27, 2011 07:01 am|
|The one in the middle is WWII, it's smaller than the others.|
|Posted by: rixard June 27, 2011 10:24 am|
|You wrote that the metal lugs on the straps are characteristic of post war bread bags, and the picture at all bread bags metal end?|
|Posted by: NadiaNicu December 06, 2011 01:32 am|
|Any Romanian groups near Ohio?|
|Posted by: sid guttridge July 08, 2014 12:19 pm|
| Hi Guys,
It is nearly ten years since I opened this thread with a question about re-enactment in Romania.
How is the hobby doing now?
Are there more re-enactment groups today?
A curious Sid.
|Posted by: ionionescu July 09, 2014 09:18 am|
| Hi Sid, I am not an expert on the subject but this is a copy/paste of a http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=6707&view=findpost&p=89538 I made an year of so ago in response to a similar question. I believe there is one more re-enacment group now but this is the big picture:
|Posted by: Agarici July 11, 2014 11:57 am|
Dear Sid, my oppinion is that the situation have substantially improved since 2004-2005, and the Romanian reenactors are now far more present in the public space. I recentlly saw a Romanian documentary (filmed in 2009) about them. The emphais was (mainly) on the Roman-Dacian times (wars) reenactment, done on quite an impressive scale, also with international participation. Apart from that, one of the members of a Bucharest-based reenactment association impersonated (very credible, in my view) a Confederate brigadier-general...
|Posted by: Elvetian October 14, 2014 08:38 pm|
| Just received today my Uniform items from Dragos Diaconu.
I asked him to make me a visor, jacket and trousers for a Locotenent-Colonel of the engineers corps (Arma Geniu in romanian language) which is in the generals staff.
I have to admit that i am more the pleased how it came out.
As mentioned the complete Visor, Jacket with shoulderboards, Aguilletes and collar patches & Trousers are from: email@example.com
The Jacket is the model 1934 with some modifications of the order nr.7/4.4.1941 .
The ribbons represent:
1st row; left to right
2nd row; left to right
The Insignia on the right shoulder is for officers who attended and breveted the war officers war school. It's unfortunatelly no original. I made it from another officers brevet insignia while adding the big crown, a new coat of arms, a crown to the eagles head and the small wings below the eagle.
The ribbon bar is made from single reproduction ribbons i ordered locally at okazii.ro
and then sewed them together. Dragos Diaconu again helped me to devine which ribbons could be added to a officer of this rank.
The belt is also ordered at okazii.ro and is a RSR-belt. But i'd say it's close enough.
I thank at this point again Dragos Diaconu for all his help and outstanding uniform.
But better i let the images speek.
1st the visor
2nd the Jacket & trousers
The complete uniform with a appropriate background.
Monumentul "Eroilor din Arma Geniului" in Bukarest.
Any comments welcome.
|Posted by: Radub October 15, 2014 09:42 am|
| That looks impressive. Does Dragos Diaconu make such uniforms (as a tailor) or is he a retailer of ready-made uniforms? Can he make other types of uniforms?
|Posted by: Elvetian October 15, 2014 03:23 pm|
glad you like it.
Romanian ready-made uniforms doesn't exist to my knowledgment.
Mr.Diaconu can, as i understood, make you any kind of romanian uniform according to your measurements and needs.
I gave him a overview what i wanted and my measurements and all was done specificaly for me.
The uniform fitted like a glove to my body.
Was more then pleased about how it came out and also the quality.
I can highly recommend his work.
|Posted by: ionionescu October 28, 2014 12:25 pm|
Sharp looking uniform, very well done!
I am not so sure about modifying the original (communist?) insignia, but if the process can be reversed and brought back to original than I guess its OK.
|Posted by: Elvetian January 30, 2015 01:16 pm|
| Here some of the updates/details i did to my Romanian officer uniform.
Neckorder "Order of the Crown" original piece:
Insignia Military Academy (it's a actual insignia from now but modified with crowns)
Breast star "Order of the Crown md 1938":
Insignia "Trupele de Geniu"
|Posted by: ionionescu January 30, 2015 03:25 pm|
| Very nice interwar impression. Reproductions are excellent.
I am not so sure about the air-force pilot insignia for this uniform and the Trupele de Geniu insignia, the latter may be communist period, but I am not 100% sure.
|Posted by: Elvetian January 30, 2015 05:07 pm|
| Thanks Ionescu.
The pilot badge was just a fun piece I wanted to try to reproduce.
It will have to leave the impression latest next week. The reason is something pretty nice, original to period and fitting to the overall impression will replace this space.
Can hardly wait till I get it.
About the badge "Trupele de Geniu" I'm too not yet sure if it fits.
I tried to find out more about it and from which period it is exactly, but no break trough yet.
When I look how it's made and constructed it could be period.
Have to search more about anyway.
|Posted by: Tyke January 30, 2015 11:34 pm|
| Excellent work, congratulations.
Are the ribbon bars also modern reproductions?
What medal is the top left ribbon, red with yellow edges, for please?
|Posted by: Elvetian January 31, 2015 05:12 pm|
Yes the ribbons are all reproductions.
The red with yellow is for the order "Mihail Viteazul".
As the color isn't really as it should be, wine red with gold,
i replaced it all ready with another much better reproduction.
|Posted by: Tyke January 31, 2015 11:48 pm|
| Thanks for the clarification. I can understand why you have replaced that ribbon.
As a collector of Romanian medals it is not easy to find replacement ribbons here in the U.K.. Would you be able to let me know where I can buy them in Romania?
You could send me a private message if you prefer.
Regards - Alan
|Posted by: Elvetian February 01, 2015 09:58 am|
Will send you Monday some links were you can find them and medals too.
|Posted by: Elvetian February 01, 2015 12:41 pm|
| Changed ribbon bar.
|Posted by: Tyke February 02, 2015 12:01 am|
Replacement MV ribbon looks much better.
I see a new 2nd row of ribbons has been added. I recognise the Order of Queen Marie on the right but what are the 2 on the left please?
|Posted by: Elvetian February 02, 2015 10:34 am|
2nd row from left:
Semnul Onorific "Vulturul României" (1933)
Medalia comemorativã "Amintirea Regelui Carol al II-lea" (1934)
Ordinul "Crucea Regina Maria" (1917-1937)
send me a mail to
and i'll send you links for medals and ribbons.
|Posted by: Elvetian February 03, 2015 08:51 pm|
| The aviator badge had to leave the impression.
It got replaced with the badge I was searching for since a long time.
|Posted by: Elvetian April 17, 2015 07:54 am|
| Last year a friend of mine was in Trencin-Slowakia at a Tank-Meet.
We decided to go together this year in mid june.
As my friend doesn't have a uniform i contacted again Dragos Diaconu to make one for him.
This time a officers uniform for Vanatorii de Munte.
This was the sheet i provided to Mr.Diaconu:
The big Buttons are original.
As the buttons are extremely difficult to come by Mr.Diaconu made a mould for the small buttons and made them out of Resin.
Again have to say i'm very pleased how the uniform came out.
What remains is to "fresh it up" a bit with some ribbons and officers brevet insignia.
Any comments welcome.
|Posted by: Morar Andrei July 15, 2018 03:38 pm|
| Talking about reenactment in Romania. I recently joined "Military Tradition" Association because I like this kind of events, despite the fact I'm only 16, and I want to get my first uniform soon.
I was talking to a colleague from another forum who lives in Russia. Two weeks ago, he said that he was involved in a huge reenactment at the border with Minsk. According to I'm, at this event took part a few thousand actors, with dousins of vehicles (tanks, armoured cars, artillery and even planes). I was wondering why we can not do something similar here in Romania. Usually, our spectacles are resumed to 10-20 soldiers in total, rarely having a cannon or a car. But I guess we just do not have enough members in Romania. Other chance would have been if there was a large international festival in our country.
Otherwise, why can we not have a large scale reenaction here?
|Posted by: Morar Andrei February 12, 2019 01:03 pm|
| I recently asked some reenactment societies why we can not organise large scale events as in the West. This was the answer I got:
"Arms and Ammo regime, ways of using pyrotechnic effects, availability of local authorities to get involved, facilitate, implement European projects, etc."
Looks like the Legislation puts us a lot of problems in this domain. Quite sad...