Matt
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Modelling & Art > Romanian Bf-109 question |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 02, 2005 01:05 pm |
| Is the aircraft depicted on this kit a g-2 or G-4? Matt |
| Posted by: Victor September 02, 2005 03:20 pm |
| G-2, I believe. |
| Posted by: mgc151184 September 02, 2005 08:28 pm |
| Bf 109 G2 no 7 (white) 7th Fighter Group 1943 MGC |
| Posted by: Dénes September 02, 2005 10:28 pm |
| I can confirm that No. 7 - which should actually be white - was indeed a Bf 109G-2. However, 'White 15' was a Bf 109G-4. Please note that the blue stripe is missing from the latter aircraft's rudder... Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 03, 2005 12:27 pm | ||
Thanks for your help.  Do you have any more info on this aircraft? I saw a picture of the plane in Squadron/Signal's "Bf-109 in Action" book that shows what appears to be a larger-size tail wheel - was it a later G-2? Matt |
| Posted by: 109 September 03, 2005 03:05 pm |
| Based on the tailwheel alone, it SHOULD be a G3/4 (it's definitely larger than on the White 12 ) Unless other documents appear I would go for a g3/4... Note the white 15 in the background in the first pic. I think the missing blue strip and the yellow nose are misinterpretations of this photo.  |
| Posted by: 109 September 03, 2005 03:18 pm |
| I just mixed the two pictures in Photoshop ant the 7's tail wheel in DEFINITELY larger than the 12's, no optical ilussion whatsoever. Now you draw your own conclusions... Cheers. |
| Posted by: Dénes September 03, 2005 04:25 pm |
| According to archival documents, 'White 7' was a G-2. Gen. Dénes P.S. '109', please list the sources of your photos. |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 03, 2005 08:10 pm |
| The second picture is the one that appears in Squadon/Signal's book. Matt |
| Posted by: 109 September 04, 2005 09:37 am |
| We're talking about ARR here, so anything is possible; this could have been easily a G2 whith a "borrowed" tailwheel from a G3/4, just as easy as mistaking a G2 with a G4 in documents... I remember seing another picture with a guy next to the White 7. That could pove decisive.. The first picture is from www.messerschmitt-bf109.de, the second from Squadron Bf-109 In Action. |
| Posted by: 109 September 04, 2005 09:44 am |
| Found it! Acording to the radio antena it's a G2...so we have 3 main elements that separate G2 from G4 , tailwheel, antena location and wing bulges...so far is 1-1...it hould have been great to see the right wing...  Picture from Air Magazine "Bf-109 roumains" - if i remember correctly... |
| Posted by: 109 September 04, 2005 10:00 am |
| ...Sorry, the antena location is not relevant (when it comes to ARR...) i found a pic whith a G4 (check the bulges) with the same antena location... What i would do Matt, would be to take a G2, fit it with a larger tailwheel, paint it but keep them bulges painted and ready to be glued on the wings!  Pic from Aero Magazin |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 04, 2005 01:09 pm | ||
Posted on Sep 4 2005, 09:37 AM by 109
Hey 109  , the guy next to " white 7" it's not an ordinary guy but the famous romanian ace Cpt. Dan Scurtu. So probably he flew this plane in spring '43 ( 23 april -29 mai) from Kramatorskaia airfield in strafing missions (some of the Bf-109 G2/4 like "white 7"were equiped with 4x 50Kg bombs rack for this purpose) over Izium, Vorosilovgrad, Kupiansk, Starobielsk and Barvenkovo. At that time he was the commander of 58sq ( 7FG) and on 10 april '43 set on fire 1 Pe-2 on Starobielsk airfield. Below a color profile of "white 7" ( with belly rack). Courtesy Dan Melinte. http://imageshack.us Matt the yellow it's not orange like on the box art but light yellow ( in B&W pictures it's very close to white color). |
| Posted by: Dénes September 04, 2005 02:33 pm | ||
According to the French booklet, it's Serg. Stefan Greceanu.  (He's Scurtu, of course). Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 04, 2005 03:08 pm | ||
In another french ( and romanian) book from TMA ( L'aviation Rroumaine )for the same picture was noted german mechanic instead of Scurtu. Btw Denes, i remember that you have( in your data base) the data when was lost "white 7" . |
| Posted by: Dénes September 04, 2005 04:18 pm | ||
Yes. The document mentions that No. 7 was lost in an accident on 16 August 1943. However, the log book of Rosariu indicates No. 7 heavily damaged on 19 March 1943. Could the latter be a Luftwaffe machine? Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 September 04, 2005 05:58 pm | ||
The guy with the 109 is Scurtu. But who is Dan Melinte? |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 04, 2005 08:46 pm | ||
The guy with 109 is Scurtu. But who is "109"  C2 !!!  not again |
| Posted by: Dénes September 04, 2005 09:07 pm |
| Below is another shot of 'White 7' from the same sequence (this time a bit farther from the camera). One can see a white line on the fin root, which might be the Werknummer. Also, the underbelly bomb rack, with 4 x 50 kg bombs, are also faintly visible. Gen. Dénes  |
| Posted by: Dénes September 04, 2005 09:08 pm |
| And here is yet another shot of the same 'White 7'. This time, the white line on the fin root is not visible... Gen. Dénes  |
| Posted by: 109 September 05, 2005 04:41 am |
| Correct me if i'm wrong, but in the second pic Denes posted the white 7 sems to lack the wheels covers. In the first pic, the white line could be the edge of the elevator?  |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 05, 2005 07:27 am | ||
I think it's only a scratch on film ( many scratches like that are on the picture). |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 05, 2005 05:40 pm |
| Are those the larger wheels in the second photo? Matt |
| Posted by: 109 September 05, 2005 06:33 pm |
The difference between the main wheels on G2 and G4 is almost unnoticeable, unlike the tailwheel . It's very hard to tell for sure. Anyways from this photographs of finnish definitely G2s fitted with larger tailwheel, it seems as if some sort of mixes were made .My advice is to use a G2 , large tailwheel,but keep some superglue near by and the bulges ready . Source: Ml Books, Bf-109 Cz6 |
| Posted by: Dénes September 05, 2005 06:37 pm | ||||
Yes.
No. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 08, 2005 06:05 pm |
| Are those wheels in the second picture spoked? Matt |
| Posted by: Dénes September 08, 2005 10:44 pm |
| Looking at the original print with a magnifying glass; yes, it appears that the main wheels are spoked - as they should be for a G-2. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 09, 2005 12:21 am | ||||
Unfortunetly ( for you Matt) both G2 and G4 had spoked wheels. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 09, 2005 12:56 am | ||
If it's about the main wheels it's hard to tell you from this angle of the picture . Indeed one of the difference between G-2 and G-4 it's the wide of the tyres ( from the main wheels) The G-2 had the same wheels ( narrow) like BF 109 F and G-4 had wide tyres like G-6 ( that explain the bulges over the wings for both G-4 and G-6 ). The big tail wheel of 'yellow7' could be a field conversion because of use as a JABO ( jagdbomber) and the plane was more heavy ( with 200 Kg). In the spring '43 the airfields in russia should be full of mud that could posible explain the missing main wheels cover. Matt i suggest that the model should be a G-2 ( confirmed by archiv doc.) and use a big tail wheel ( from G-4) and with a 4 bombs rack under belly. |
| Posted by: Dénes September 09, 2005 01:19 am | ||||
Quote from 'Bf 109 In Action', Part 2, by John Beaman (p. 23):
Of course, one can occasionally find G-4s with the old spoked wheels, but I believe the norm for a regular G-4 was the new stamped wheels. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino September 09, 2005 01:38 am | ||
Maybe G-3 prototypes. But show me one picture with a Bf-109 G-4 with stamped wheels ( not spoked). |
| Posted by: 109 September 09, 2005 07:29 am |
Bizu's G4 also had spoked wheels...i dare anyone to find me a romanian G3/4 with cast wheels...A beer for each! Source: AIRMAG Hors Serie, no. 1 Les Messerschmitt Bf 109 roumains |
| Posted by: Dénes September 12, 2005 02:55 pm |
| I did some research and it looks like the US source I quoted is dated. More recent German sources indicate that most of the G-4 series retained the spiked wheel rims, only the last batch receveived the new cast wheel rims. Indeed, I could find only a couple of photos showing Luftwaffe G-4s with the cast wheel rims, most retaining the spiked wheel rims. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Matt_S September 15, 2006 05:44 am |
| Does anybody know the dimensions for the Romanian Cross(don't know the proper name for it) on the sides/wings of these aircraft? Matt |
| Posted by: Radub September 15, 2006 08:57 am |
| The cross is often referred to as "Michael's Cross". It is a cross formed by four letters M, which was the royal seal of King Michael the 1st of Romania. As for dimensions, there were official regulations that stipulated a proportional relationship between the size of the area (wing or fuselage) where the cross was to be applied and the size of the cross itself. However, there were many variations and departures from the rule, so the best thing to do is to use photgraphs to size them. There were also variations in the design of the cross, with variations of line width, dimensions of the roundel, etc. On Bf109s, the cross was between 0,8m and 1m in width/height. From photos, it appears that all 6 crosses were the same size. Unfortunately, there is not "one size fits all" type of cross, you really have to find photos to see what applies... HTH Radu |
| Posted by: ak474me December 20, 2011 03:09 am |
| I know this is an older threat, but as a newbie here I do have a question. I am trying to build this same model at the front of the thread. A hobbycraft Russian front 109. Does the Romanian Bf-109 g2 in this model have any camo on the wings or was it straight dark green or so? The directions so it is all dark green. Although, I have seen some black and white photos and it looks like their is camo pattern. Was not sure if the early 109's were mostly all dark green and later 109 g's became gray green camo patterns. Thanks for any input |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2011 06:02 am | ||
If you like romanian ww2 fighters, get the book "Romanian fighter colours" from MMP editor. You will find all the answers you looking for.  |
| Posted by: ak474me December 22, 2011 06:50 am | ||||
Thanks for the information about the book. I have ordered the book and look forward to getting it |