|Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Awards & Badges > Military Virtue Cross|
|Posted by: Carol I July 22, 2004 06:15 am|
| Does this Military Virtue Cross look authentic to you or not?
|Posted by: Carol I July 22, 2004 06:21 am|
| Please note the black line on the edge of the medal. It looks as if the two sides of the medal were independently created and then somehow "glued" together. The edge also has some marks that seem to indicate filing.
Do you happen to know how these medals were actually manufactured? By striking both sides at once or by some other method (like the one described above)?
|Posted by: mihai July 22, 2004 04:10 pm|
| [quote]Please note the black line on the edge of the medal. It looks as if the two sides of the medal were independently created and then somehow "glued" together. The edge also has some marks that seem to indicate filing.
Do you happen to know how these medals were actually manufactured? By striking both sides at once or by some other method (like the one described above)?[/quote]
This medal divided to two parts usually,Fronat parts and backside. manufactured two parts into one medals.
Also,I didn't know and see the hallmark in this medals.The order ex Orde of Crown has usually the hallmarks
|Posted by: Carol I July 22, 2004 05:38 pm|
| Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately I did not understand if you consider this an authentic badge or not.
[quote]Also,I didn't know and see the hallmark in this medals.The order ex Orde of Crown has usually the hallmarks[/quote]
Hallmarks appear often on the badges made in silver in a jeweller's shop. But unfortunately there are also many badges that were made by the National Mint (e.g., the war badges of the lower classes of the national orders) which do not have hallmarks.
|Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR July 25, 2004 12:03 am|
|Carol I - I have seen many variations of this medal both very well manufactured and those that were very poorly made. All of them good pieces. I have also seen fakes. These pieces stand out as they are all cast manufactured. This piece in the photo I would venture to say is of original manufacture. It would be too much trouble and labor to make this medal in 2 pieces, put together and file down the edges. This medal is not a high value item.|
|Posted by: Carol I July 25, 2004 08:16 am|
Thank you very much for the reply. My opinion was divided about 50-50 between authentic and fake. I was struck by the black line on the edge of which I have heard that is one of the signs which indicate fake coins. Furthermore, the quality of the details on the badge was not that great compared to other Romanian medals. But at the same time I did not have any reference for a "normal" badge because I have not seen many such medals/crosses. Anyhow, thanks again for the reply and explanations.
|Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR July 25, 2004 02:55 pm|
| Take a look at this medal under a magnifier glass. A fake piece that is cast will not be as detailed to the wreath, and in the lines on the border inside edge of the cross. Also, on the outer edge of the medal, the stamped lines will not be very defined. There will also be left over metal residue from being cast and perhaps some cast pitting in the medal. The ball suspension will have a freshly drilled hole for the ribbon ring loop.
The fake gold ones of the first class have an unusual gilting that looks different than those of the period. A satin finish similar to a coating used in restoring antiques. Some of these cast pieces have been offered for sale on Ebay.
|Posted by: Carol I July 25, 2004 06:43 pm|
|Thank you for the reply. I will take a look at the details you mentioned.|
|Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR July 25, 2004 08:26 pm|
|They are making some badges in the same way, Cast. Same rules apply. Most common badges faked, aviation and armor.|
|Posted by: Carol I November 24, 2005 10:00 pm|
| What about this cross, does it look genuine or not?
|Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR November 26, 2005 04:31 pm|
|Difficult to tell from this photo. One thing that stands out is the left arm on the reverse side of the medal. There are 2 holes like pin holes and 1 dot on the arm like excess metal slag. All characteristics of being a cast made piece. Also, the outer edge border of the cross on the original medals had several very fine lines in the border. This medal does not show these lines and would not show it because it is too difficult to transfer these lines as a cast. As you already know, cast made medals are suspect as being copies. There are some badges that exist that are cast made and are genuine. Usually war time issues. You have to take it case by case and determine its authenticity. As for this medal, it definately has some age patina and wear marks that look genuine. Does this mean that the piece is of the period and was a replacement piece for one that was lost ? Or, is this a modern day copy. Again, you have to physically see the medal.|
|Posted by: Carol I November 26, 2005 10:35 pm|
|Thanks for the reply. I have noticed myself the absence of the fine pattern in the border "trough" as well as the pinholes. One other thing is that the former cross had "VIRTUTE MILITARĀ" written on the reverse while the latter has "VIRTUTE MILITARA". How common was that? Maybe we ought to make a database thread on the genuine versions of this cross.|
|Posted by: New Connaught Ranger December 08, 2006 08:01 pm|
| Hallo Gentlemen
I have three "VIRTUTE MILITARA" crosses in my collection,
one is with a ball ribbon ring mount and has the words "VIRTUTE MILITARĀ". weighs 16 gram.
The other two, with a small side ring to hold the ribbon ring. These have the words VIRTUTE MILITARA, one is in silver and weighs 18 gram.
The other has a Gold finish and weighs 16 Gram, the words are in very bold modern style, (while the silver variant is a thin style) as this one came with a very modern ribbon and clasp I suspect its of very modern manufacture, but I do not know if there are replacements being made for veterans since the Revolution.
All are well made.
Please see attached pictures and any comments would be welcome as to the period of manufacture, and if original.
Kevin in Deva.
|Posted by: Carol I December 08, 2006 10:01 pm|
The whole appearance of this badge suggests new manufacture.
|Posted by: b737 December 09, 2006 12:23 pm|
Yeap! Replacement for ww2 veterans !
|Posted by: New Connaught Ranger December 09, 2006 08:01 pm|
| Hallo Carol I & b737
thanks for the very quick replies, with regard the two silver ones, one with ball ring mount and the other with hoop mount any ideas as to if originals? or WW2 era??
I would also like to know a little about the criteria for the awarding the cross, was it strictly an "Other Ranks" award, seperate from Officers?
And do the three have any individual monetary value as such?
Kevin in Deva
|Posted by: Carol I December 09, 2006 08:18 pm|
Since WWI the Military Virtue Cross was the highest military decoration for the lower ranks (equivalent to the Order of Michael the Brave for the officers).
The first one appears to have poor details on the wreath. Even the medallion seems to have an odd appearance, but it is hard to tell whether it is the result of poor execution or of damage.
The second one is more detailed, but seems to lack the ornamental lines in the "trough" around the arms of the cross that were mentioned earlier in the thread.
|Posted by: b737 December 10, 2006 12:04 pm|
From my poit of wiew , both medals are ok !
|Posted by: mihai June 28, 2013 03:29 am|
| This is other pieces of Military Virtue Cross.
It's typical WW2 issued pieces.
Uploaded with http://imageshack.us