| QUOTE |
| King Mihai I was a marshal, and air marshal and an admiral.
I do not know if he held the nominal command of a regiment, like his father and grandmother did. |
His grandmother commanded a regiment ? :shock:
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Biographical Research > King Mihai |
| Posted by: prj453 October 29, 2003 06:14 am |
| Hello,
I am seeking information on King Mihai's background with the Royal Romanian Army. As of now, I have the following information on the ranks that he held: Corporal - 1930 Sergeant - 193? 2nd Lieutenant - 1937 General of Division - 1940 Marshal of Romania - 1941 Does anyone have more specific information with regard to the ranks? Also, was he the colonel-in-chief or honorary colonel of any of the regiments in the Royal Romanian Army? Thank you for your help! -Patrick |
| Posted by: Florin October 31, 2003 01:45 am | ||
Hi, It is for the first time when I read about King Mihai as "Marshall of Romania". Well, two things may result from here: 1. He was and I did not know. 2. He wasn't. I am very confident about this second option. Florin |
| Posted by: prj453 October 31, 2003 02:19 am |
| Hello Florin,
I am somewhat confident that King Mihai held this rank. According to the 1942 edition of the Almanach de Gotha, he was created a marshal in 1942. If you click on the link below, you can see a photo of the King with the insignia visible on his shoulder: http://www.thirdreichforum.com/files/1135_1035820264.jpg The link below leads to a photo of the King in the uniform of the highest rank in the navy: http://www.cs.kent.edu/~amarcus/Mihai/accesorii/mihai2.jpg -Patrick |
| Posted by: prj453 October 31, 2003 02:20 am |
| I am sorry--the first link above does not work. Try this instead:
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9893&start=0 -Patrick |
| Posted by: Dénes October 31, 2003 02:48 am | ||
King Michael I was undoubtedly a Marshall. He received his rank shortly after Antonescu, in 1941. Somewhere I have the exact date, I must look for it. |
| Posted by: Geto-Dacul October 31, 2003 03:06 am | ||
Florin wrote :
The former monarch was a marshal, but only on paper. He was made marshal of the airforce, symbolically as any monarch. The thing is that he had no military/political skills. Best regards, Getu' |
| Posted by: Victor October 31, 2003 07:16 am |
| King Mihai I was a marshal, and air marshal and an admiral.
I do not know if he held the nominal command of a regiment, like his father and grandmother did. |
| Posted by: dragos October 31, 2003 09:32 am | ||
His grandmother commanded a regiment ? :shock: |
| Posted by: Victor October 31, 2003 01:53 pm |
| Queen Maria was the nominal CO of the 4th Rosiori Regiment, which she occasionally led at parades. |
| Posted by: Florin October 31, 2003 09:23 pm | ||
Hello, all of you! OK guys, I learned the lesson. Usually it is good to be king. There is only one catch: When you are king and you become unemployed, it is pretty difficult to get another job in accordance with the resume. 
Florin |
| Posted by: prj453 November 01, 2003 12:45 am |
| According to the Almanach de Gotha, King Carol II was the honorary commander of the following units:
-Regiment Infanterie Gardă -Regimentul 6 Gardă “Mihai Viteazu” -Regimentul 32 Dorobanti “Mircea” -1st Mountain Rifle Battalion -1st Light Infantry Battalion -Regiment Escortă [Royal Escort Regiment] -Regiment 2 Artilerie Gardă [Guard Artillery] -Divizion 1 Artilerie Călăreată [Mountain Artillery] -Regiment 1 Grăniceri [Frontier Guards] -Regiment 2 Grăniceri I do not know whether or not King Mihai "inherited" any of these regiments when he came to the throne. BTW, King Carol II was also the honorary commander of these foreign units: -45th Infantry Regiment, Royal Yugoslav Army -57th Infantry Regiment, Polish Army Any corrections or additions are welcome! -Patrick |
| Posted by: mabadesc November 01, 2003 03:10 am |
| A couple of comments about the interesting points made in this thread:
1. Was the king theoretically the commander-in-chief of the country's armed forces? I say "theoretically" because in practice and in reality Antonescu was the Army supreme commander. Still, if the king was officially the commander-in-chief, this would explain why he had to hold the highest military ranks in all branches of the armed forces. 2. IF there was no official reason for him to hold these "ranks", then in my humble opinion I find the whole thing distasteful. Officers dedicated and sacrificed their lives and families in order to even HOPE to become a ranking officer such as colonel or mj. general. And here comes a youngster (be it a king) who is marshall, Air marshall, and admiral in his twenties. A throne may be inherited, but shouldn't a military rank be awarded based on valor and experience? 3. This indirectly reminds me of pre-revolutionary France where just about any nobleman could BUY officer commissions and ministerial jobs. And we all know how it ended... :wink: P.S. I'm not trying to bash the king. I'm sure he was (still is) a capable guy, but at his young age he could have stuck with being just a king. Just my opinion... |
| Posted by: Victor November 01, 2003 06:01 am |
| Ofcourse the king was the theoretical chief of the armed forces. This was also during Carol I, Ferdinand I and Carol II. Keep in mind that the king represented an institution. |
| Posted by: Florin November 02, 2003 04:21 am | ||||
Hi, This makes easier to comprehend how the Romanian Army managed the confussion in the aftermath of August 23rd, about what position should take. Florin |
| Posted by: Florin November 02, 2003 04:50 am | ||||||||
For God sake, you behave like you just discovered America! It is the common practice in all regal families, including the British, in all times, including WWII and our days. However, King George VI wanted to give some good example, so he put the young Elizabeth to drive a transport truck. Also Churchill wanted to show a good example, and put his daughter to be servant at an anti-aircraft battery. However, we should not forget that in late 1940 - late 1947 Mihai was the king, and not the son of the King.
It was worse. It was not about buying. Whatever bright and brave you could be, you could never become officer if you were not nobleman. You could never become high rank officer if you were not born high rank nobleman. Napoleon was born in a family of small noblemen. They were at the lowest step in the ladder of the French nobility, but enough to make him accepted in the artilery school. You should not get me wrong: there were real tests, including written, but only the noblemen had the chance to compete for the positions. In a France with no revolution, Napoleon could never rise above the Major rank. His nobility rank was too low.
King Mihai had a natural skill in mechanics, and he liked to dismantle and re-combine internal combustion engines. The Germans knew about his passion, and made nice presents as fancy vehicles, as the tracked one shown in a real footage climbing the stairs of the Peles castle. King Mihai gifts in mechanics helped him to survive in exile. The guy was not as lucky as his father, who could leave Romania with a whole railway train, filled at his discretion.
I would say that excepting the very important moment of August 23rd, when his name gave credibility to the coupe d'etait, Mihai had stuck in being just a king About age... Alexander the Great started to conquer the known world at 23. At 32, he was ruling it. Well, Mihai was not Alexander the Great. Which is not to be blamed, as nobody else was. Alexander was the son of the great king Filip the 2nd of Macedonia, so he inherited his kingdom. Now let me look to the other guy, closer by birth to our humble position. Napoleon became Brigade General at 24, emperor at 35, ruler of the world at 39. Considering his beginnings, he was brighter than Alexander the Great. Florin |
| Posted by: Carol I February 15, 2004 11:12 am |
Does anyone know who is the officer in the centre of this photo (between Ana Pauker and King Mihai)?
He seems to be wearing the Grand Cross of the Order of the Crown. |
| Posted by: Victor February 15, 2004 11:23 am |
| It's general Lascar. |
| Posted by: Geto-Dacul February 15, 2004 05:47 pm |
| Heh, what a nice pic!!!
From left to right : Ana Pauker, Florica Bagdasar, Mihail Lascar (wearing Michael the Brave 2nd Class, Crown of Romania Great Cross, the Academy badge and three other awards), Lucretiu Patrascanu and the handsome monarch (having Michael the Brave 3rd Class, Aeronautical Virtue Officer, Pobeda Order and Carol I order).
A unique pic, since I never say another with the Pobeda on Michael's right chest! :mrgreen: And BTW, I already saw a photo with Ana Pauker wearing the Order of the Crown, the Great Officer class!!! Getu' |
| Posted by: Carol I February 15, 2004 11:53 pm |
| [quote]...Mihail Lascar wearing Michael the Brave 2nd Class...[/quote]
It is interesting to note that Gen. Lascar is wearing the 1941 model of Michael the Brave, i.e. the decoration he received on 31 December 1941 for fighting against the Russians. |
| Posted by: Victor February 16, 2004 02:15 pm |
| The 2nd class was awarded also for his activity on the Eastern Front, against the USSR.
Btw, I do not think it was possible to wear the 2nd class, without wearing the 3rd class. |
| Posted by: Carol I February 16, 2004 03:11 pm |
| [quote]The 2nd class was awarded also for his activity on the Eastern Front, against the USSR.[/quote]
I never contested that. In fact from the date listed on your page on http://worldwar2.ro/portrete/?article=9&language=en (31 December 1941) it is obvious that he received the 2nd class badge of the order for actions on the Eastern Front. What I intended to point out is that Gen. Lascar as Minister of Defence in a pro-Soviet government was publicly wearing a decoration won for fighting against the Soviet state. [quote]Btw, I do not think it was possible to wear the 2nd class, without wearing the 3rd class.[/quote] Actually I do not know the answer to this question. Generally speaking only the highest class of a decoration in possession had to be worn at a particular time, being understood that the person has already received the lower classes. But the Order of Michael the Brave was probably an exception. In the particular case of Gen. Lascar in the photo above, the 3rd class of the Michael the Brave order might very well be the first badge on the left side of his chest. |
| Posted by: Darth_Ameraudur April 22, 2007 08:29 am |
| Here is a photo of both His Majesty and Marshal Antonescu with their Marshal Batons saluting at a march past! http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4868/nr37personajerotundecd1.jpg Its a bit hazy but its there! |
| Posted by: mabadesc April 22, 2007 10:46 pm | ||||
I don't think there were any 2nd class Mihai Viteazul orders awarded for the Western Front campaign (i.e., post August 23, 1944). As far as I know, all were awarded for actions on the Eastern Front, hence they were all 1941 models. Sorry for the slightly off-topic comment.
Interesting observation. However, I think that after August 23, Romanian officers shed their German decorations but continued to wear their Romanian awards (regardless of when they were obtained), such as the Star of Romania or the Romanian Crown. One possible exception may have been the "Fight against Bolshevism" decoration. |
| Posted by: mabadesc April 22, 2007 10:56 pm | ||
One more thing: Are you guys sure the officer in the picture isn't General Sanatescu? I'm not sure, but it looks like him. |
| Posted by: Victor April 23, 2007 05:54 am |
| Sanatescu did not receive the Mihai Viteazul Order 2nd class. |
| Posted by: mabadesc April 23, 2007 03:23 pm | ||
In that case, my guess was obviously incorrect. Thanks for pointing this out. Here is an earlier picture of Lascar, from a different angle (profile), taken in the Crimea, probably in late 1941 or early 1942. At least I think it's Lascar, based on the resemblance and on his protuberant nose, but I'd like to know your opinion. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror May 08, 2007 05:10 pm |
| all romanian kings were marshalls. |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror May 08, 2007 05:14 pm |
| even king Caril II, who deserted during ww1 |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror May 08, 2007 05:15 pm |
| Carol II, sorry |
| Posted by: MaxFax October 21, 2008 07:40 pm |
| This photo was sold on e-bay 2 days a go for ~ 25$. http://imageshack.us http://g.imageshack.us/img407/regelemihai4pj5.jpg/1/ |
| Posted by: Petre October 25, 2015 10:11 am |
| (e) Book : Lev Sotskov, The Operation code-name “Tarantella”. Declassified archive of the Russian Foreign Inteligence Service Chapter : The Abdication Raportul Ministrului de stat Sargent către Şeful Foreign Office, Bevin : «Аmbasadorul american mi-a spus că tocmai a avut o întrevedere cu regele României, care i-a declarat că problema referitoare la revenirea sau nerevenirea în România este una din problemele pe care regele trebuie să le hotărască singur. Totuşi, i-a spus regelui că prezenţa sa în continuare în România ar avea o certă valoare». Mesajul Ministrului de Externe britanic către Ambasada de la Bucureşti după întrevederea cu Regele Mihai (prescurtare) : «Important. Strict secret. Ambasadorului Majestăţii Sale, personal. L-am văzut pe Regele Mihai la recepţia din 24 nov. A participat şi Regina-mamă, care în discuţie s-a dovedit mult mai activă decît Regele. Ea a declarat că dacă Regele revine în România, va fi sau arestat sau cel puţin acuzat de infracţiuni inexistente. Asta îl pune pe Rege în situaţie imposibilă, când trebuie să semneze legi şi diferite documente care acuză români sărmani de toate infracţiuni care constau în dezacorduri сu comuniştii. Şi Regele şi-a arătat neputinţa. El a exprimat ideea că în loc să stea în ţară şi să confere putere juridică legilor de tot felul emise de guvern, ar fi mai bine pentru el să rămână peste hotare. Am avut compasiune pentru situaţia lor dificilă, dar i-am spus că Maj. Sa înţelege probabil că nu-i pot da nici-un sfat. Maj. Sa a spus că şi ei înţeleg situaţia mea, [ ? că ei ar fi fost foarte îngrijoraţi dacă s-ar fi auzit că nu s-au mai întors în patrie ]». Telegrama Ambasadorului britanic de la Bucureşti, 1 dec. 1947 : « ... Dacă Regina-mamă îl convinge pe Rege să nu se reîntoarcă, va trebui să iau în considerare că, alături de considerente cu caracter politic, aceast lucru va juca direct în favoarea comuniştilor — ea face astfel un mare rău, nu numai fiului său, dar şi poporului român. Aici se consideră că Regele, la fel ca oricare alt om, îşi va îndeplini atribuţiunile pe măsura abilităţilor sale, cât de neplăcute şi periculoase ar fi ele. Dacă el nu face asta şi dezertează conştient de la postul său, nu va putea conta pe vre-un spijin din partea celor care până de curând i-au acordat încrederea lor şi au fost încrezători în el». |
| Posted by: Petre November 11, 2015 09:10 am |
| From russian NET : Excerpts from the book : Walter Heinrich, Bekenntnisse eines Ökologen. (The confessions of an ecologist), 1980. At „Nikita Botanical Gardens”, south of Crimea … la 15 iulie 1942 am ajuns la Simferopol ... şi am reprezentat acolo grupa administrativă. Trebuia să mai aşteptăm trei zile, până când se elibera drumul spre sud, după intrarea trupelor în Sevastopolul cucerit. După un drum de 1800 km prin trecătoarea din munţi, am ajuns pe coasta sudică a Crimeei la Grădina Botanică Nikita. ( .. ) ... valoarea ştiinţifică a Grădinii Botanice nu se bucura de prea multă apreciere. De aceea pentru mine a fost un semn de recunoştinţă să primesc administrarea aceastei Grădini Botanice şi să o apăr de efectele războiului. ( ... ) Într-o zi am primit un mesaj secret că tânărul rege român Mihai dorea să viziteze grădina Nikita şi vine a doua zi pe la zece. Nimeni nu trebuia să audă despre asta, iar eu urma să primesc vizita liderului. Am gândit îndelung drumul prin grădină şi să fie totul în regulă (...) A doua zi au venit câteva maşini cu ofiţeri germani şi soldaţi din pază. Apoi a apărut regele cu aghiotanţii. M-am prezentat. La întrebarea mea, ce doreşte Alteţea Sa să vadă, mi-a răspuns : “Doar Grădina”. Ne-am întors în grădină. Am mers alături de rege şi aghiotanţi, ofiţerii germani şi soldaţii ne-au însoţit. Am făcut o scurtă prezentare a istoriei Grădinii şi am explicat scopul înfiinţării ei. După acestea am prezentat câteva culturi remarcabile, de exemplu o magnolie gigant cu flori albe mari – copac nativ din sud-estul Americii de nord, sau copacul de gutapercă din sudul Chinei, care conţine cauciuc în frunze şi tulpină. Am arătat un portocal cu frunze şi spini, precum şi alte specii. Tânărul rege asculta în tăcere scurtele comentarii despre plantele prezentate şi a dat mostrele aghiotanţilor săi. După o oră vizita s-a încheiat, regele mi-a mulţumit scurt şi coloana de maşini a plecat. Am fost mulţumit că totul a mers normal. Ce surprins am fost când a doua zi a venit cu o maşină un mare general român şi a cerut să vorbească urgent cu mine. Când am venit, mi-a spus că doreşte să vadă magnolia, copacul de gutapercă şi portocalul. M-a şocat aceast interes pentru botanică. Care era motivul ? Regele, la cină cu generalul, a prezentat plantele pe care le-au luat cu ei aghiotanţii şi a reprodus comentariile mele. Generalul a fost asa de surprins de aceste cunoştinţe ale Majestăţii Sale încât a hotărât să verifice totul personal, ca să se orienteze. Mai târziu în toamna 1944 ... am primit prin curier un pachet strâns legat pe care l-am deschis plin de curiozitate. Acolo era o casetă albastră, aristocratică. Când am deschis-o am râs mult. Înăuntru era Marele Ordin Sf. Mihail (?) cu spade, care se acorda pentru merite deosebite. Acest ordin se acorda celor care manifestau bravură în faţa duşmanului. Prin aceasta, conducerea mea fusese adică o treabă periculoasă. Acest pachet făcuse cale lungă până la mine. Curând românii au capitulat şi regele s-a retras. Portul acestui ordin a fost interzis de conducerea superioară. Aşa că nu l-am purtat niciodată. A ajund trofeu militar în Polonia. |
| Posted by: Petre February 05, 2016 04:30 pm |
| Source - Net : La 7 iulie 1945 a fost publicat Decretul privind decorarea regelui Mihai cu Ordinul Pobeda. La 19 iulie, mareşalul Un. Sov. F.I. Tolbuhin i-a înmânat regelui Ordinul la bordul iahtului său(?) de la Bucureşti. În afară de aceasta, în numele lui I.V. Stalin i-a fost făcut cadou un avion. ... La 3 ian 1948 fostul rege a trebuit să părăsească în grabă ţara. Printre alte bijuterii i s-a permis lui Mihai să scoată şi Ordinul Pobeda. În 1949 Ordinul a fost vândut la o licitaţie privată unuia din membrii fam. Rockefeller pentru o sumă nedezvăluită. Se cunosc diferite cifre, mergând până la un mil. dollari, dar ele nasc serioase îndoieli. Cu oarecare certitudine, se poate afirma că Ordinul a fost vândut pentru o sumă mult mai mică, plecând de la : ... Ordinul Pobeda al gen. Eisenhower ... se presupunea a valora 100 mii... dar un bijutier a apreciat 18 mii ... Atunci s-a descoperit că rubinele erau artificiale... I.V. Stalin a dat dispoziţie ca la confecţionarea Ordinelor să se folosească numai materiale autohtone. Au fost puse la dispoziţie pentru realizare 5400 biliante, 9 kg platină de 99,8 şi 2 kg aur 950-25, calculând 180 briliante şi 300 gr platină pentru un Ordin şi cinci rubine din cele mai mari care există. Era prevăzut a confecţiona 30 Ordine. S-au făcut 20... Сu rubinele au fost probleme, neavând nuanţe identice... Foarte puţini au cunoscut problema cu rubinele înlocuite şi n-au îndrăznit să-i raporteze lui Stalin, care n-a ştiut niciodată de înlocuire. |
| Posted by: Petre March 08, 2017 05:06 am |
| From the memories of S.G. Shtchekoldyn, former manager, the palace-museum Vorontsov of Alupka, Crimea : (...) Palatul-muzeu Voronţov a fost vizitat de ministrul transporturilor feroviare Doromuller, de ministrul de război român gen. Pantazi. Într-o zi când mă duceam la masă m-a oprit un soldat român cu un automat : palatul era înconjurat de români. Am prezentat o hârtie, soldatul văzând ştampila cu simboluri fasciste, mi-a dat voie. În vestibul stătea un căpitan român, şeful pazei : vine Mihai, regele României. Căpitanul ne vorbeşte despre Mihai, despre tatăl său şi mama vitregă. În piaţă au intrat 15 maşini. În prima maşină a venit Mihai, un om tânăr, cum scria în ziar - 24 ani. Intrând în vestibul, şi-a scos mănuşa şi salutându-mă, a spus pe ruseşte : «Zdravstvuite». Am spus că ştiu germana, Mihai a cerut să vorbim în germană. Îmi amintesc ce a spus ghidul muzeului nostru Ivan Kuzmici Borisov, сu care aveam relaţii amicale : «Mi-e indiferent pe cine plimb, fie şi Papa de la Roma». După mine şi Mihai veneau perechi de generali români şi germani, între ei Antonescu. Văzând în grădina de iarnă o sculptură antică, Mihai a întrebat de unde este. Am vorbit despre Capul Ai-Todor, de foştii Mari Cneji Romanovi, despre rămăşiţele antice dezgropate acolo. Mihai m-a rugat să-i arăt săpăturile de la Cap Ai-Todor. « Litoralul este minat, este periculos ! » (...) |
| Posted by: Petre March 20, 2017 07:51 am |
| Decree of The USSR Supreme Council On awarding Mihai I, king of Romania with the Order „Pobeda” For the bravery act of decisive turn of romanian politic towards rupture with the Hitlerian Germany and alliance with the United Nations at a moment when it was not yet clear the defeat of Germany, is awarded H.M. Mihai I, king of Romania with The Order „Pobeda”. Chairman of the Prresidium, M. Kalinin Secretary of the Presidium, A. Gorkin Moscow, Kremlin, the 6th of july, 1945. http://moimir.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/d53izhoh1-300x221.jpg http://moimir.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ljjpezi5.jpg |