http://minus.com/lybdYbEEHRsEx
http://minus.com/lNQ4fhnfJjBfz
http://minus.com/lfTKFUj63CtCP
http://minus.com/lAOXJx6blvryt
http://minus.com/lvgwZ26vKEZtc
http://minus.com/lbnuPnWsb6nIRc
http://minus.com/l2lecW1BcloL1
http://minus.com/lb1HDMboXewmCx
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > ARR - Romanian Royal Aeronautics > remaines of IAR80 no 293 found |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 02, 2013 10:41 am |
| Can you help me with translation in english please? Anunt pe aceasta cale, descoperirea ramasitelor avionului de vanatoare IAR80 nr 293, doborat de artileria anti-aeriana la Intorsura Buzaului in 29.08. 1944. Am avut enorma sansa sa gasesc martor al incidentului, Nicolae B, 84 de ani, fara de care nu as fi identificat locatia. Pilotul Sl. Av. Alex Florentin, a atacat aglomerarea de trupe germane din zona garii Intorsura Buzaului, provocand numeroase victime in randul germanilor. Dupa trecerea razanta("rase motte"-"razmut" cum ziceau pilotii), s-a intors pt a ataca inca o data trupele inamice. Germanii de data aceasta au ripostat cu tunuri Flak(cel mai probabil de 20 mm), lovind si incendiind avionul. Dupa ce a fost lovit in motor, pilotul a fost nevoit sa ia inaltime pt a se parasuta; dupa parasutare avionul a intrat cu viteza mare in picaj, prabusindu-se in dealul din apropiere. Pilotul a fost capturat de soldatii germani("veniti cu 2 motociclete cu 3 roti"-spusele dl Nicolae, cel mai probabil cu atas), intr-o curte de la marginea Intorsurii, acolo unde cazuse cu parasuta. Era ranit la picioare. A scapat de linsare, deoarece batranii in curtea carora cazuse, s-au implorat de soldati. 2 zile a stat intr-o magazie, fara ingrijiri medicale, singurul care avea acces la el fiind un batran pe care nemtii il lasau sa-i duca de mancare. Dupa 2 zile a fost trimis intr-un lagar din Germania, de unde a revenit dupa terminarea razboiului. Dupa razboi, Sl. Av Alex Florentin a fost pilot la Tarom. Acesta a pastrat legatura cu familia care l-a salvat, petrecandu-si parte din concedii pe la Intorsura. A fost prezent la inmormantarea batranului in anii 70 si a tinut legatura cu copii acestuia. Din cate stiu, Sl. Av Alex. F a decedat dupa revolutie. Ce a ramas din avion in locatia prabusirii a fost luat pe rand de tarani, au folosit aluminiul, pt ca mai apoi Securitatea si Armata sa recupereze tot. Ce vedeti in imagini sunt resturi descoperite cu detectorul, in 4 "expeditii" (fiind in munti locatia), si au "scapat" prin faptul ca erau ingropate destul de adanc, pe o suprafata mare. Aici tipul de avion: http://minus.com/lbhiB9GdwlgzA2 |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 02, 2013 10:44 am |
| Arhivare/stocare http://minus.com/lybdYbEEHRsEx http://minus.com/lNQ4fhnfJjBfz http://minus.com/lfTKFUj63CtCP http://minus.com/lAOXJx6blvryt http://minus.com/lvgwZ26vKEZtc http://minus.com/lbnuPnWsb6nIRc http://minus.com/l2lecW1BcloL1 http://minus.com/lb1HDMboXewmCx |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 02, 2013 10:45 am |
| Cartus ars si oxidat, 7.92 pt mitralierele Browning. http://minus.com/lbbC3fxeewqHzc an fabricatie 41 http://minus.com/lbmHnhbMYz9OCS http://minus.com/lOY0KbdyCgupC http://minus.com/lWVxrFrRLDl1A Carcasa angrenaj elice http://minus.com/lS1oqEgJB1fJ Piese delco/magneto fabricatie germana, cod "FL" =flieger(pt aviatie) http://minus.com/lNn2wadhcV0mM http://minus.com/lYkj81zgjqG2I |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 02, 2013 10:46 am |
| Piese mai mari http://minus.com/lYgsSFIrCO6Wb Trapa rotunda de pe aripa http://minus.com/lUBXlggU5DgvH Posibil comanda flaps http://minus.com/lNIMbKFxHEEaI "Gura" de foc, pe unde iesea teava de la mitraliere(localizata in aripa) http://minus.com/lbcDTu3TgoH5uL Bucata scaun pilot? http://minus.com/lHS0VG04Z5qgV Vopsea originala http://minus.com/lRWsTlpiPcxlJ Stanta fabricii "IAR" http://minus.com/lbpCPBfvRyn3dK |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 02, 2013 10:49 am |
| Fragment chiulasa de la un cilindru http://minus.com/lD5hcwdjQpkmw Piesa neidentificata... http://minus.com/lqog8DYA6gjMa Iar80 vs P38 USAAF http://minus.com/lKm14vR9zerLl Piesa de rezistenta: Placuta de identificare a avionului, cu serii, reparatii...etc http://minus.com/lIS8g14UcjnbS Se vede revizia capitala, "05.1944" http://minus.com/lbcibDzlycuHaD Spor! |
| Posted by: C-2 November 02, 2013 11:38 am |
| WOOOOOWWW! Great news! |
| Posted by: Radub November 02, 2013 12:32 pm |
| Very impressive. Well done. Radu |
| Posted by: Florin November 03, 2013 01:55 am | ||
TRANSLATION I am using this way to announce that we discovered the remains of the fighter airplane IAR 80 No. 293, shot down by the anti-aircraft artillery at Intorsura Buzaului on August 29, 1944. I had the extraordinary luck to find a witness of the event, Mr. Nicolae B, presently 84 years old. I would not find the right location without him. Pilot Alex Florentin, Sub Lieutenant Aviator, attacked the German ground troops crowded around Intorsura Buzaului railroad station, causing many losses in the German ranks. After passing over them at very low altitude, he returned to attack them once more. This time the Germans were prepared with 20mm Flak. They hit the plane, and this caught fire. With his airplane hit in the engine, the pilot had to gain altitude in order to be able to parachute himself. After he succeeded doing this, the pilotless plane started a high speed deep dive and knocked into the nearest hill. The pilot was captured by the Germans coming into 2 motorcycles with sidecar. They picked him from the yard of a house at the edge of the town, were the pilot finally land. The pilot was wounded at both legs, but his captors intended to lynch him. He was saved by the last moment intervention of the elderly house owners, who begged the Germans to reconsider. The pilot was laid in a barn for 2 days, with no medical care. The only person allowed to him was an old man that brought him food, with the permission of the Germans. At the end of these 2 days he was sent to Germany as prisoner. Sub Lieutenant Aviator Alex Florentin returned to Romania after war. He became a TAROM pilot and kept in touch with his saviors, spending some of his vacations at Intorsura Buzaului. The pilot was present at the funeral of the old man, occurring in the 1970’s, then he maintained relations with his children. As far it is known, Sub Lieutenant Aviator Alex Florentin died after the revolution of 1989. What was left of his plane was first looted by the local peasant for aluminum. The Romanian Army and the Security branch of the Communist Party picked up whatever was left on the ground. What you can see in the photos above was discovered with metal detector, and this is the result of 4 expeditions that went deep into the local mountains. The objects in photos were still there because they were buried deep into the ground and were spread over a great surface. |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 03, 2013 12:56 pm |
| Senchiu Florin! |
| Posted by: Dénes November 03, 2013 03:07 pm | ||
This makes no sense. Soldiers do not lynch, civilians do. Soldiers execute people. If he was about to be lynched, it must have been attempted by civilians (Germans, Hungarians?). Also, if German soldiers wanted to execute the Rumanian pilot (as traitor?), they would have done it, regardless if a few Rumanian elder people begged not to. I would leave this unconfirmed detail out of the story. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Florin November 03, 2013 04:03 pm | ||||
Soldiers execute people when they are receiving an order accordingly. What word is proper when soldiers kill enemy soldiers or civilians and by doing so they contradict orders issued by their own higher hierarchy ? This is a general question, not necessarily linked to the topic.
This statement sounds realistic. P.S: Dénes, somebody told me many years ago: "A good translation has to reflect exactly the original. You should not improve the original. There are some excellent translations of bad books." |
| Posted by: Dénes November 03, 2013 04:13 pm | ||
It's summary execution. Gen. Dénes P.S. My note did not refer to the translator, but who the original text in Rumanian belongs to. |
| Posted by: C-2 November 04, 2013 08:53 am |
| Sorin Tullea almost was lynched by fellow moldavians. The propaganda sistem was telling them about spies falling out of the skies... Even the local jandarms have given him some blows to the head. A german patrol saved him. |
| Posted by: Ferdinand November 04, 2013 10:58 am |
| What i wrote it is based on the eyewitness story. |
| Posted by: Dénes November 04, 2013 02:22 pm |
| And that's exactly why it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Alexandru C. November 07, 2013 02:58 pm |
| Congratulations! The remains of the I.A.R.s begin to come to light. Alexandru |
| Posted by: florentiu April 18, 2015 12:28 pm | ||
Ma numesc Adrian Florentiu, locuiesc in Bucuresti. Am gasit intamplator postarea dumneavoastra din 2013 in legatura cu gasirea unor resturi din epava avionului IAR80 cu nr. 293, pilotat de tatal meu Slt. Alexandru Florentiu cand a fost doborat de artileria antiaeriana germana in zona Intorsura Buzaului. Mi s-a parut remarcabil faptul ca mai intereseaza pe cineva acest episod al celui de al doilea razboi mondial. Soarta multor piloti romani a fost ignorata deliberat sau din nepasare prea multa vreme. La episodul pe care il relatati, as dori sa aduc cateva mici corecturi si adaugiri. Dupa ce a fost doborat (in ziua cand implinea 22 ani), tatal meu Slt. Alexandru Florentiu a fost luat prizonier de armata germana, fiind in lagarul de la Wustrau/Neuruppin pana in 1945 cand a fost eliberat de trupele sovietice. Intors in tara, inaintat la gradul de capitan, a activat ca instructor de acrobatie pana in 1951 cand a fost dat afara din armata. Nu a mai pilotat niciodata ... Ramas fara nici o sursa de venit, intors la parinti in Focsani, a fost pe rand pedagog la un internat de baieti, contabil la un atelier de tinichigerie. S-a mutat la Ploiesti in 1953, inscriindu-se apoi la Institutul de stiinte economice. Pana la absolvire (sef de promotie) a predat lectii particulare de matematica. In 1957 a fost angajat la Institutul de proiectare instalatii petroliere din Ploiesti ca economist si s-a inscris la Institutul de petrol si gaze, pe care l-a absolvit ca sef de promotie. A lucrat la IPIP Ploiesti ca inginer proiectant pana la pensionare si s-a intalnit din cand in cand cu alti piloti supravietuitori din cel de-al doilea razboi mondial. Tatal meu Dr. inginer Alexandru Florentiu, comandor in rezerva, a murit la Ploiesti in anul 2005 in varsta de 83 ani. Atasez pentru referinta doua fotografii si transcriptul unui articol publicat in 1979 intr-un ziar local ce incearca sa explice de ce o strada din Intorsura Buzaului se numeste Strada Aviatorului. Cu deosebita stima, Adrian Florentiu http://imageshack.com/a/img538/2708/vVePm5.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img661/8739/i44qQT.jpg https://files.secureserver.net/0s5mvwRfEOewQS |
| Posted by: horia April 20, 2015 08:47 am |
| Adrian, thank you for your post and photos. I think Florin (Ferdinand) will be very happy to read this! |
| Posted by: Ferdinand April 26, 2015 09:00 pm | ||||
 Aveti mesaj privat! Nu pot sa cred ce mica e lumea! |
| Posted by: Agarici April 29, 2015 09:35 pm |
| Hello! What model was the plane (80, 81, A, B, C)? Did the tail number was identical to the serial production number? If so, according tot the data from the site ( http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/?article=749 ), the aircraft must have been a IAR 81 A (4 7,92 and 2 13,2 mm guns)... Is that correct? |
| Posted by: Radub April 30, 2015 08:16 am |
| There was no "I.A.R.81-A" in service. The "I.A.R.81-A dive bomber with heavy machine guns" was a planned version that was never built - all airframes assigned to this type were built as fighters. No. 293 was an I.A.R.80-B armed with 2 x 13.2 mm heavy machine guns and 4 x 7.92 mm machine guns. HTH Radu |
| Posted by: Florin May 01, 2015 02:39 am |
| Interesting: an airplane flying in August 1944 carrying ammunition manufactured in 1941 ... (See second photo in the post from November 2, 2013.) After 3 years of war, I would have expected that the bullets made in 1941 to be already used. |
| Posted by: Radub May 01, 2015 07:43 am |
| The 7.92 x57 Mauser round was manufactured by the trillions by many maufacturers. It was the standard German ammunition in both world wars. It is still in use today and there is wartime stock left. There was no shortage of such ammunition in stores during the war. Radu |
| Posted by: Antoniu May 05, 2015 06:17 am |
| Slt.av. Florentiu Alexandru Flotila 3 Vt. Gr.2 Vt. Esc.44 Vt. Declaratia Adj.Stg.av.Prisecaru Constantin, coechipierul Slt.av. Florentiu Alexandru: “Subsemnatul Adj. Stg. av. Prisecaru Constantin, din Escadrila 44 Vanatoare, declar urmatoarele cu privire la disparitia Domnului Slt.av. Florentiu Alexandru. In ziua de 27 August 1944 am decolat doua celule de IAR-80 cu misiunea de a mitralia coloanele motorizate nemtesti ce se aflau aglomerate in Intorsura Buzaului. Inainte de a intra deasupra obiectivului, prima celula Domnului Slt.av. Roventa si Adj.av. Zaharia a semnalat cateva masini camuflate pe marginea unei sosele si au inceput atacul. Celula Domnului Slt.av. Florentiu Alexandru al carui coechipier era eu, am intrat deasupra obiectivului la 500 m inaltime si am facut un viraj larg pentru a identifica. Eu vazand ca au inceput sa fuga soldati de la masini in toate directiile si ca Domnul Slt.av. Florentiu nu ataca, am derapat imediat pe o aripa si am inceput sa trag cu toate armele de bord. La 100 metri am redresat si am degajat spre dreapta pentru a reveni in vechea formatie de lupta in fir indian. La 400 metri inaltime am pus avionul la orizontala si inaintea mea la 3-400 metri avionul Domnului Slt.av. Florentiu se afla in panta de coborare pronuntata, poi am vazut cum a sarit cu parasuta care s-a deschis cam la jumatatea distantei dintre avion si pamant. Eu din momentul in care am vazut ca i s-a deschis parasuta nu l-am mai putut urmari fiind nevoit sa degajez imediat la rasse-motte fiind incadrat din toate partile de un A.C.A. foarte puternic.Vazand un foc puternic intr-o padure, m-am dus acolo la mica inaltime si am vazut cum ardea avionul. La 2-300 metri de avion era parasuta aterizata pe varful brazilor. Distanta de la coloana nemteasca pana la locul unde a aterizat parasuta era de aproximativ 5-6 Km. Dupa aceea am intrat in celula Domnului Slt.av. Roventa si am continuat atacul dupa care am plecat la aerodrom. Aceasta-mi este declaratia pe care o sustin si o semnez propriu.” Prin 1988, Arh. Mihai Andrei a vorbit cu Dl. Florentin Alexandru despre actiunea sa din 27.08 1944 de la Intorsura Buzaului. Ne-a indicat persoana de legatura care cunoaste bine locul prabusirii, dar si faptul ca strada care trece prin sat spre locul prabusirii se numeste " Strada Aviatorului". Ca sa nu avem surprize Dl. Ing. Morariu salariat la Romaero a luat legatura in numele fabricii cu primarul din Intorsura Buzaului, acesta a aprobat cercetarea la fata locului. Ne-am deplasat: Ing. Morariu, Mihai Andrei, Bujor Razvan si Dan Antoniu. Am avut numele unei persoane de contat din sat, omul care a tractat de la locul prabusirii ce a ramas din fuzelaj si cele doua aripi la el in batatura, a avut mari necazuri cu securitatea, au spus atunci ca vrea sa-si construiasca avion pentru a fugii din tara. Nu l-am gasit acasa, in schimb am gasit o ruda a acestuia care ne-a condus la locul prabusirii, acolo se mai afla doar motorul ingropat. Nu am avut cele necesare pentru a investiga. Apoi am coborat si ne-a aratat o foaie de aluminiu, singura relicva ramasa si folosita pe post de cofrag, nu am putut sa o desprindem. Am mai aflat ca pilotul a aterizat ranit in curtea unei familii, a sosit urgent o patrula germana cu un ofiter care a scos pistolul sa-l impuste, in fata pilotului s-a asezat o batrana care fiind de etnie germana l-a implorat pe ofiter, in limba lui, implorand-ul sa-l ierte deoarece este militar si si-a facut datoria. A fost crutat si dus intr-un lagar din Germania. Relatarea corespundea perfect cu descrierea facuta de Florentiu Alexandru. Daca cineva doreste poate fi tradus in engleza. |
| Posted by: Agarici May 09, 2015 06:30 pm |
| Thank you very much for the clarifications, Radu. Was this particular plane (and the other initially destined as IAR 81 fighter-bombers) capable of carying bombs (under the wings, under the fuselage)? What about the other planes concived/derived as/from IAR 81 (IAR 80 C, for example)? In strafing enemy troops and other air-to-ground missions, I guess those bombs could have really made a difference... Also, if any of you knows, how many of the older (80/81, A and B models) remained in use by (mid) 1944? According to Wikipedia (yes, I know... ) there was a plane to standardize all of those by arming them with new MG 151/20 20 mm guns as IAR 80 M's ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IAR_80 ).Was the entire 44th Squadron (3rd Fighter Group) still equiped with IAR 80 B's (or other older models) by august 1944? Thank you once more! |
| Posted by: Radub May 12, 2015 07:12 pm |
| This particular plane could not carry bombs. The other questions are very complex and require a bit of research. Radu |