Can we buy a copy of your dvd, or sommething?
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > ARR - Romanian Royal Aeronautics > Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 07, 2004 01:04 pm |
| Hello to All I am starting this Topic in the memories of all the brave aircrew who sacrficed their lives to shorten the war and liberate our world from tirrany and atrocities of Hiltler and his 3d Reich , because without it Luftwaffe capabilities to attack and be on combat status would have caused many more casualties. I dont want to put down the bravery of the ARR pilots who their duty was to defend their country and obey orders, I also dont want to call Luftwaffe pilots as war criminals ( except with some exceptions) because most of them fought a war which wasnt their own ( e.G. Oblt H.J.Marseille)......and personally I think TIDALWAVE was the greatest and bravest known aerial bombing mission in the history of modern military aviation. FOR THOSE WHO WANA SEE A STREAMED FOOTAGE FROM THE 44TH BMB SQ PLEASE GO TO http://www.homeofheroes.com/video/index.htmlhttp://www.homeofheroes.com/video/index.html Before Santa may show up with gifits for those who were naughty and nice....I have here some footages which I have photographed after being played back on my DVD therefore the quality of the photos may be rather poor and rather insignificant to the viewers. I will will post the photos of the footage I've got from 44th Bmb Grp, 376th SQd etc without comments. Photos wehere taken from those liberator who managed to get back to Benghazi , captured footages from Luftwaffe after the war by the Americans and even some gun camera photos of AAR....your comments, criticizm and getting a number on line for the complaint department is mostly welcome Alex 1ST PHOTO WRONG BRIDGE, WRONG TRACK , WRONG COURSE ON THE WAY TO THE TARGET....WRONG COURSE INTERCEPTION AT CAMPINA .....FLYING NOW TO BUCHAREST |
| Posted by: dragos December 07, 2004 02:04 pm |
| Very interesting photographs, but try not to quote your own descriptions all over again. |
| Posted by: Victor December 07, 2004 04:45 pm |
| Alexkdl, you can post also by pushing the Add Reply button in the lower right corner of the page. I have cleared the thread of the unwanted quotes. Great footage! |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 07, 2004 04:45 pm |
| alexkdl - i am schocked, incredible footage!!! I am searching for photos and videos on this event for a long time and i NEVER seen this ones, and no comment about the ARR "fotomitraliera" Can we buy a copy of your dvd, or sommething? |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 07, 2004 07:21 pm | ||
Hello Cin The footage are lasting only 10 minutes, the other problem is that copying from a DVD which belong to US Government is rather hard especially from DVD to tape or DVD to DVD becuase is code 1 ( USA) and is rfather a hard and expensive task, if you wish I can take an other shots of this footage. Just a last question I am rather puzzled that Luftwaffe or AAR have guncameras ( photo mitraliera) marked with number 50 on the right hand of it....I never saw gun camera with such markings and I can not to a reasonable conclussion on that stands for, can u help ? THanks Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 07, 2004 07:22 pm | ||
Many thanks Victor and sorry about the technical malfunction I am yet not familiar with the cite. Best Regards Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 07, 2004 07:24 pm | ||
Hello Sorry for the problems, will do it next time right Alex |
| Posted by: C-2 December 07, 2004 07:50 pm |
| I saw some time ago,at Medin Robanescu's office,a great T.wave photo: A B 24 who made a belly landing and somehow stall at some moment and got his nose into the muddy groung and his tail up.Big as a house!. |
| Posted by: Dénes December 07, 2004 08:35 pm | ||
I believe that was the Boiler Maker II. Check out the photo on the top of page 56 in my Squadron/Signal book on ARR. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 07, 2004 10:09 pm | ||
Yep, Denes is absolutely right is the BOILMAKER II....I have this photo, let know if u wana see it Alex |
| Posted by: C-2 December 07, 2004 10:27 pm | ||||
I'd like to see it  |
| Posted by: Dénes December 07, 2004 10:27 pm | ||
That seems to me too low. 20 feet is approx. 6 meters, which equals the second floor in a highrise building. The bridge itself should be taller than 6 m. I live on the 5th floor (~50 feet), that seems to be more accurate. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: C-2 December 07, 2004 11:02 pm |
| Where's the promised photo????? |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 12:05 am |
| C-2 I didnt forget you ! Here's your Boilmaker II on the cornfields of Roumania AUG 1st, 1943 |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 12:17 am |
| http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_1940_wwii/baker_addison.htmlhttp://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_1940_wwii/baker_addison.html |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 12:25 am |
| http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/09_ploesti.html |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 12:31 am |
| Hello Denes Was meant 200 feet or Meter 60 aproy missed a digit |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 01:32 am |
| COL .LEO JOHNSON , EIGHT BALLS SQD , ONE OF THE LEADERS OF THE PLOESTI RAID AND A CHM RECEPIENT |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 08, 2004 07:23 am |
| Alex, many B-24 in you pictures are not "D" model usde in Tidal Wave so probably there are pictures from 1944 with B-24 H. You can see the front turret guns different from D-models. |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 08, 2004 02:13 pm |
| The Ploiesti ones worth verry much for me, thanks a million alexkdl !!! Too bad you can't copy the dvd  |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 02:58 pm | ||
Hello , I may partially agree with you regarding the auto turet which were installed on the later models though check with all the concerned Bombardment Groups , some were used on tidalwave...also all films are strictly from Tidalwave and from 44th Bmb Grp Archives in Illinois and Virginia Best Regards Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 03:01 pm | ||
C-2 have you seen the Boilmaker II crash landing nose down photo on this topic ? what do you think ? Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 03:25 pm |
| Here is the site you can see some raid videos : http://www.homeofheroes.com/video/index.html[/URL] Ploesti has a similar meaning to me as to you, I was born not too far from Ploesti( Bucuresti) exactly at the date 7 years later ...my uncle was Maj.Dr. with Roumanian AA Divisions round Baneasa and Otopeni and my dad was a Col. ( Politruc) in Roumanian Army till 1955 later a top government employee with Consiliu Central Al Syndicatelor ,he had a a good friend a Capt on IL-18 till 1970 at Tarom and former AAR Transport Pilot ...therefore since my childhood the Ploesti Raid has fascinated me, I used to ride my bike to Baneasa Airport to see airplanes and stop on my way at the US Airmen Cimitary and wonder about all these brave men who've lost their lives in Roumania.....and may have been the catalytic element for becoming a military pilot in due course of my life.................In addition never before on the history of human conflict field the US Congress has awarded somany Medals of Honours like on the Aug 1, 1943 and it will remain as one of the greatest military airborne events in the history of US Military Aviation and Military Aviation in general. Rgds Alex George Guzzi The Sandman, piloted by Lt. Robert W. Sternfels, and Chugalug, piloted by Capt. Leroy Morgan (both of the 98th Bomb Group) run the gauntlet of flak trains, antiaircraft fire, propwash, explosions from delayed-action bombs dropped by the 93rd Bomb Group and barrage balloons. After dropping their bombs on the White IV refinery, they break out of the inferno, dodge smoke stacks, rush into clear air and start the long, dangerous flight back to their desert base with enemy fighters lurking along the way. |
| Posted by: LiberandosTG December 08, 2004 04:03 pm | ||
I SAW YOUR THREAD ON OUR TIDALWAVE , I AM A FORMER TG ON A B-24 FROM 376 BOMB.GROUP , I WAS OVER PLOESTI...YOU MADE MY DAY ALEX, THIS IS THE GREATEST WAY TO REVIVE OUR MEMORIES, EVEN I AM RATHER VERY OLD , LET ME KNOW IF YOU NEED A WINGMAN...I GONNA JOIN YA,,,, GOD BLESS YOU ALEX AND MY FRIENDS FROM 376TH SALTUE YOU !!!! BLUE SKIES BRIAN [LiberandosTG was in fact an avatar of alexkdl and was later banned - admin comment] |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 08, 2004 07:36 pm |
| LiberandosTG welcome to this forum. In behalf of my virtual squadron I salute you and all those brave airmen ! I wonder if you could help me with something: right now I am working on a movie project regarding US operations above Romania on 23rd June 1944, 376th BG was part of these operations.Any informations regarding that day (stories from fellow airmen, pictures, anything) would be a great addition and will help me make a better movie dedicated to all those who took to the air in those troubled days. Salute !~ |
| Posted by: C-2 December 08, 2004 08:28 pm | ||||
Sorry ,That's not the one.... The one I'm talking about was practicaly vertical  |
| Posted by: Mareşal Boboescu December 08, 2004 08:35 pm |
| Superbe pictures! God save Aviatia Romana! I am absolutelly stund! The comments, I must add, are quite to the point. And another thing, doesn't Romanian corn rule?! You can find allmost anything in it. HONOR ET PATRIA Ml. B. |
| Posted by: C-2 December 08, 2004 08:43 pm |
| Photo from E.Hladiuk colection. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 08, 2004 11:05 pm |
| C-2 When was that photos taken and by whom ? Anyways if you know comd. Hladuc people or his sphere can you ask to identify the AAR pilots on the attached photos eventually those of the Luftwaffe ,which were taken shortly after Tidalwave ? Alex |
| Posted by: dragos December 08, 2004 11:35 pm | ||
I presume it is about the bombers that due to navigation problems had to redirect over Bucharest. They dropped the bombs on Bucharest on their own initiative or they had specific orders? |
| Posted by: Dénes December 09, 2004 02:48 am | ||
The ARR airman at left of the photo is Ofiter de echipaj clasa a III-a aviator Ioan Maga. The Adjutant stagiar aviator at the right of the photo could be, but I am not certain, Traian Dârjan. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor December 09, 2004 05:50 am |
| Maga was in the 53rd Fighter Squadron, protecting the Ploiesti airfields. He claimed one B-24 on 1 August. The other Romanian was probably also a member of that squadron. It couldn't be Darjan, who was in Trans-Dnestra at the time, learning to fly the Bf-109G. |
| Posted by: Victor December 09, 2004 05:53 am | ||
Welcome to the forum. Would you like to share your experience on 1 August 1943 with us? It would be very welcomed. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 09, 2004 07:21 am |
| First on Ploesti, first shot down.... Brewery Wagon, pilot J.Palm |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 09, 2004 07:25 am |
| And the german pilot who gave the final shot to Brewery Wagon. Hauptman W. Steinmann |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 10:03 am |
| Hello Indeed Wilhelm Steinmannn who was assigned to the Hauptmann Manfred Spenner .Kommmandierenden Offizier (CO) der 3te Luftflotte at Ploesti shot down on Aug 1, 1943 2 x B-24 's the single pilot who was credited with 2 airkills on that day, what was the name of the second B-24 he's shot down ? Alex |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 09, 2004 10:04 am |
| PUDGY |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 10:14 am |
| Hello Victor From a Luftwaffe source I just heard that on that picture following pilots are showing up on the photo from left to right , Capitan Aviator Toma commander of the specific Roumanian Sqd which defended Ploesti, Hans Hahn J.Rauch or Werner Gerhard , the second AAR ooficer couldn't be indentified Best Regards Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 10:17 am |
| According some sources. Col.Comptons " TEGGIE ANN" group lead plane who took the wrong turn to Bucuresti was ordered to brake radio silence by Brig. Gen Uzal Ent the Tidalwave commander who also flew with the raid and drop the bombs over Boucharest and nearby Defense installations Regards Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 10:33 am |
| The "PUDGY" Crew was the following : P MILTON TELTSER ( POW-ROM) CP WILMER BASETT (POW-ROM) OBS WILLIAM BEAUMONT (POW-ROM) N SNAFORD REBACK ( KIA) B ROBERT WARD (KIA) E-TT B.HIGGINS (KIA) R WALLANCE MILLIGAN (KIA) TB VANCE TAYLOR (KIA) WG ROBERT LOCKY (POW ROUMANIA) WG FRANCIS DOLL (POW ROUM) TG RICHARD MURRAY (KIA) The 5 crew members returned to the US and died of agging, the KIA Airmen according to my sources are burried in Boucharest at the American section 15th AF , Airmen Cimitary in Boucharest ,some of them may have been later returned to the US for final burial.....have you ever visited that section of the Cimitary....any photos ? Best Regards Alex |
| Posted by: Victor December 09, 2004 10:41 am | ||
The Romanian pilot on the right does indeed look like cpt. av. Lucian Toma, CO of the 53rd Squadron. Btw, it is not AAR, but ARR (Aeronautica Regala Romana) |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 11:07 am |
| yea sorry Victor ARR , but who's the second Roumanian officer or pilot from right to left ? Alex |
| Posted by: manfredG December 09, 2004 12:14 pm | ||
GUTEN TAG ALEX The gun camera photos posted by you on which a B-24 over ploesti is being hunted was from the BF-109 of Hauptamnn Manfred Spenner the commandant of the Luftwaffe Black Wing Staffel near Ploesti Gruss Manfred |
| Posted by: manfredG December 09, 2004 12:18 pm | ||
ALex, also the photo I post now is of Hauptmann Wilhelm E.Steinmann who as you said on your messages shot down 2 Liberators. I admire your mesaages you have a great knowledge and huge resources . Are you a pilot ? you seem to be familar with pilot expressions . Manfred [manfredG was another avatar of alexkdl and was banned - admin comment] |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 09, 2004 01:12 pm | ||
No, the pilot on the right can't be Cpt.av.Lucian Toma. The uniform is not of an officer but rather of a sergent ( Adjutant av.). But I confirm too that the pilot on the left as Denes said is "Ofiter de echipaj" Maga Ioan. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 03:03 pm |
| you missred, the pilot from L to R is Toma and Right to Left is unknown Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 03:54 pm |
| Hallo Manfred Danke Schoen und viellen Dank fuer Dein Kompliment....I appreciate your comments , yes I am one ,since many years still flying ,though I miss the military flying time was much more fun than straight and level ....I m just a bus driver of a B-767 , neverthless howabout you, and where did you get the photos from ? any other photos from the Luftwaffe being stationed in Roumania ? Scheonen Abend Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 09, 2004 04:00 pm | ||
Alex, I repet the romanian pilot in far left is "Ofiter de echipaj Ioan Maga" for me it's no confusion with Cpt.Toma Lucian. I have many pictures with both pilots. But also Denes confirm this. Mayby i will post pictures with this two pilots to be no doubts. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 09, 2004 04:25 pm |
| Yea would be great, can you do that ? I am curious to see Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: C-2 December 09, 2004 08:04 pm |
| The pilot on the right looks like Adj Economu. |
| Posted by: C-2 December 09, 2004 08:07 pm |
| On a second look ,I think I'm wrong.. I'll try to ask Dobran tomorrow. |
| Posted by: Victor December 09, 2004 08:43 pm | ||
As already mentioned by Denes, the Romanian pilot on teh extreme left is of. ec. cl. III http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/p053.htm. |
| Posted by: Ahmed December 11, 2004 11:53 am |
| Jesus, I knew they were low, but THAT low?.... Those 1. aug. 43 pictures are simply unbelievable. You could almost count the roof tiles on that building... |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 12, 2004 03:04 pm |
| I have found from the Archives of 44th Bmb Grp 15 AF , the TIDALWAVE flight planning as of July 28th, 1943 ALex HEADQUARTERS IX BOMBER COMMAND 28 July 1943 FIELD ORDER NO. 58 Maps: Plotting series and topographic charts of entire area -- BENGASI, CORFU, BRASOV, CONSTANTA, ISTANBUL, CYPRUS. 1. a. See Intelligence Annex. b. Friendly ground situation: no change. 2. The Ninth U.S. Air Force will attack and destroy the 7 principal oil refineries in the PLOESTI area on 1 August 1943 employing 7 target forces in a minimum altitude attack in order to deny the enemy use of the petroleum products processed in that area. a. ASSEMBLY: On the line Site 7 - DRIANA - TOCRA, leading element to depart TOCRA at 0530 GMT. b. ROUTE OUT: BENGASI - TOCRA - Northern tip of CORFU - PIROT - 43º50' N 23º43' E - PITESTI - IP - TARGET ATITUDES: BENGASI to TOCRA to 38º20' N 20º08' E begin climb so as to cross CORFU at 10,000 feet until reaching PIROT. At PIROT begin descent so as to cross DANUBE at 3,000-5,000 feet. Remain at 3,000 to 5,000 feet until reaching PITESTI. From PITESTI to IPs maintain minimum altitude above terrain. From IP to target reduce altitudes to bombing level. c. AXIS OF ATTACK Target Forces No. 1 to 5 Incl - 127º Target Force Blue - 132º Target Force Red - 150º d. MANUVER AFTER ATTACK: Target forces Nos 1 to 5 Incl continue on attack course 127º for following times after crossing E-W RR along southern border of PLOESTI. Then turn right to a heading of 233º to LAKE BALTA POTELEL approx 120 miles from PLOESTI. No 1 - 2 min 15 sec No 2 - 2 min 15 sec No 3 - 2 min 15 sec No 4 - 2 min No 5 - 1 min 45 sec Target Force Blue turn right as soon as possible to a heading of 233º. Target Force Red turn right as soon as possible to a heading of 220º. All forces remain at minimum altitude until after crossing RIVER DANUBE then climb to 10,000 feet. e. ROUTE BACK From targets, all forces will proceed to LAKE BALTA POTELEL as directed in withdrawl plan. From there to BARKOVISTA to southern tip of CORFU to TOCRA to bases. ALTITUDES: From target to LAKE BALTA POTELEL 3,000-5,000 feet. LAKE BALTA POTELEL climb to 10,000 feet holding this altitude until reaching CORFU. From CORFU to base utilize the most economical altitude. 3. a. Target Force No 1, Colonel Compton commanding, and consisting of 24 B-24s from the 376th Bomb Group will lead the formation and attack target No White 1 as indicated on Operations Map. Attack will be made in 4 waves of 6 airplanes each. b. Target Force No 2, Colonel Baker commanding, and major Brown deputy leader, consisting of 21 B-24s of the 93rd Bomb Group, will fly No. 2 position in the route formation and attack target White No II as indicated on Operations Map employing 3 waves of six airplanes each plus one wave of three airplanes. c. Target Force No 3, Colonel Baker commanding and Major Potts leading, consisting of 12 B-24s of the 93rd Bomb Group, will fly No 3 position in the formation and attack target White No III as indicated on Operations Map employing 4 waves of 3 airplanes each. d. Target Force No 4, Colonel Kane commanding, consisting of 40 B-24s of the 98th Bomb Group, will fly No 4 position in the formation and attack target White No IV employing 4 waves of 10 airplanes each. e. Target Force No 5, Colonel Johnson commanding and Major Brandon leading, consisting of 15 B-24s of the 44th Bomb Group will fly No 5 position in the formation and attack White No V as indicated on the Operations Map, employing 5 waves of 3 airplanes each. f. Target Force No 6, Lt Colonel Posey commanding, and Captain Diehl leading, consisting of 18 B-24s of the 44th Bomb Group, will fly No 6 position in the formation and attack target Blue I as indicated on the Operations Map, employing 3 waves of 6 airplanes each. g. Target Force Red, Colonel Woods commanding, and Captain Caldwell leading, consisting of 24 B-24s of the 389th Bomb Group, will fly the last position in the formation and attack target Red I as indicated on the Operations Map, employing 8 waves of 3 airplanes each. x. See Bomb Loading Annex. 4. See Airdrome Annex. 5. a. COMMUNICATIONS: See Communications Annex. b. (1) Ground: No Change. (2) Air: Colonel Compton in lead aircraft. Deputy leader, Colonel Baker, in lead aircraft 2nd target force. By command of Brigadier General ENT: JOHN C. KILBORN, Colonel, AC, A-3. |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 12, 2004 04:23 pm |
| This thread is gold!!! Pleese, keep up the posting Alex |
| Posted by: Carol I December 12, 2004 11:59 pm | ||
The same http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce10-4.htm is available on website of the http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/index.htm. They also have other documents related to the "Ploieşti Mission": - Approximate Route of Flight (map); - Target and Target Forces Plans (table); - Bomb Load Plan (table); - Supposed Defenses of Ploesti Area (map); - Operational Record of Ploesti Mission (table). Just take a look at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce10.htm |
| Posted by: Artur December 13, 2004 04:12 am |
| Thank you Alex for the wonderful footage. I live in South Dakota USA, near to Ellsworth Air Force base where the 44th Bomb group originated from. There is a small museum there where the Ploesti mission figures prominently, and some of the veterans of the group come and visit a few times a year and share their recollections. The 44th BG is active to this day flying B1 bombers, over my head when I ride my bike in the summer on those beautful country roads. I guess the tradition continues. Artur |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 12:30 pm |
| Carol be aware that the Internet links you offered regarding Ploesti ops and pre flights are not working,try again! Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 12:34 pm | ||
CIP Nice to hear from you again, I will....I have many friends at confederate Air Force and contact with families.....at some point I had contacts with the daughter of " Col. " Killer " Kane one of the CHM receipients and the " Pyramiders" lead plane...though I have lost it due to internet address change. Alex |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 13, 2004 01:03 pm |
Killare Kane,... i have a movie showing the actual moment of the crash landing on film  do you have this short footage or you wanna see it? The thing is i am at work now and at home the internet connexion is down and it will be restored in a few days. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 01:33 pm | ||
Cip .." Killer " Kane crashed in Cyprus outbounded from Ploesti.....I would love to see it !!! Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 01:35 pm |
| I think this piece of restauration with 15th AF museum was also an element on the Tidalwave Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 01:39 pm | ||
an other piece of a B-24 restaurated somewhere in the US...courtesy Confederate AF Alex |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 13, 2004 02:12 pm |
| maby is my confusion, i will provide the movie anyway in a few days |
| Posted by: EIGHTBALLSLEGEND December 13, 2004 03:59 pm | ||
Alex, my grandad was a pilot with the 8 Balls under Col.Leon Johnson who was on the lead aircraft,myself I am a USAF pilot ..... while browsing on Internet I found your retaled topics.....let me say this ; IT IS THE BEST TOPIC ON THE NET ABOUT TIDALWAVE may I strongly recommend you to continue this topic.....I shall alert other friends of mine , I am certain we can help you too. Best Wishes Steve " TorpedoMan " Boyngton [EIGHTBALLSLEGEND was another avatar of alexkdl and was baned - admin comment] |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 04:33 pm |
| Thanks alot for your remarks, with the help of people like you I try to revive the past Thanks Again Alex |
| Posted by: Carol I December 13, 2004 06:19 pm | ||
They work OK on my end. Try pressing the "reload/refresh" button of your browser. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 09:16 pm |
| Its remains tom me a mistery till the day of today despite huge research I conducted on Tidalwave since years...on grounds Gen Ent and Col.Compton remained unscaved after Tidalwave for their navigational errors who brought the death upon somany airmen , their aircraft wasnt even scratched during the raid by AA, Fighters nor the German and Roumanian secret services would't know that a one star general would be on board Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 09:25 pm |
| A B-24 on inverted flight out of control ,after being hit by fighters which may have disabled or killed the pilots at their controls , on its way down over Ploesti .....376th BMB GRP, courtesy ASAF Museum. Note the bomb bay door is still open ,as well the smoke cover over Ploesti. Alex |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 13, 2004 10:04 pm |
In this picture they were lined up for takeoff ? or they were just taxiing to the runway ? In this picture the plane is inverted not necesarry because the pilot is wounded or dead, but because half of the right wing is missing and the aerodinamical forces turned the aircraft (due to the increased forced on the left wing compared to the force on the right wing):  |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 13, 2004 10:44 pm |
| I guess taxiing for take off but not sure because I have no details , regarding the broken wing tip which I actually didn't notice, it won't necessarilly bring a plane into inverted upsidedown position..I need to tell you that many B-17's came back and landed with almost one elevator missing, vertical stabilizer chopped in half or choppped wing tips and B-24's with severe airframe damages and none would thought they would ever land ...therefore I don't think that your theory would apply on that case at all ....after 61 years the single way to prove it is get the plane through wind tunnel.....and yet I still doubt it will get it into a spin or beyond control.......I will ask Confederate AF pilots who heard stories from WWII...and will let you know in due course Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 09:41 am |
| Tidal Wave Ace profile : Lt. Barladeanu Ion credited with 2 B-24 on 1 august'43 IAR 81 C nr. 279 ( armed with 2 Ikaria 20mm guns) the personal mount of Lt.Barladeanu ( in the cockpit) on Targsor airfield august '43. On the fuselage is his personal emblem. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 09:45 am | ||
Sorry , IAR 80C nr 279 ( not IAR81C) Below ( in the midlle) Lt.Barladeanu standing in the front of his IAR 80. on the engine cowling we can see the bullet holes from B-24 guns after Tidal wave. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 09:48 am |
| Barladeanu personal emblem " Tenebras" on the fuselage of IAR 80 C nr 279. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 09:51 am | ||
And color profile of his mascot : ''Tenebras- regele cotcarilor'' ( Tenebras -mafia king) |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 09:56 am |
| His first B-24 shot down in a locust tree forest west of Bilciuresti, comuna Poenarii-Burchi. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 10:00 am |
| And the second B-24 shot down NE of Contesti near Butimanu( probably "The Sad Sack II"). Near the wreck is Barladeanu . |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 14, 2004 10:41 am |
| wow, absolutely great pictures, probably taked from the military arhives about Poenari, i was't sure about the exact location of this vialage, i thought is the Poenari at west of Bucharest, but the big number of trees in the area leed to the Poenari from near the Ploesti, thanks for sharing  |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 12:27 pm | ||
fanthastic photos, though from all records I have from Luftwaffe, 15th AF, 376Bmb Grp and 8th AF as well US National Archives in VA,,,,,,only one pilot was credited with 2 confirmed B-24 airkills......Haptmann Wilhelm E. Steinmann under Huptmann Manfred Spanner...ARR may have damaged some Liberators on that day air to to air and ground to air though no 2 confirmed kills of the ARR are anywhere available Al |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 14, 2004 01:37 pm |
| Alex that is not the wingtip it is half of the wing - and yes, it will get you inverted (I do work in wind-tunnel section). |
| Posted by: Victor December 14, 2004 02:36 pm | ||||
From your words I see that you haven't actually accessed any Romanian archives or read Romanian sources. Why would you think that Luftwaffe claims also include ARR ones? |
| Posted by: Dénes December 14, 2004 03:21 pm | ||
Mr. Craciunoiu has another idea of Lt. av. Bârladeanu's personal emblem, a waiter coming in hurry and yelling "vine baiatu'!" (as shown in his book on AR - without the second R) Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: mabadesc December 14, 2004 04:10 pm |
| Fantastic thread, everyone.... Alex and EIGHTBALLSLEGEND (Steve), you were or still are both military pilots. I am curious to know what equipment you flew on - or still fly on. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 14, 2004 04:13 pm |
| [QUOTE]QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Dec 14 2004, 03:48 PM) Barladeanu personal emblem " Tenebras" on the fuselage of IAR 80 C nr 279. Mr. Craciunoiu has another idea of Lt. av. Bârladeanu's personal emblem, a waiter coming in hurry and yelling "vine baiatu'!" (as shown in his book on AR - without the second R) Col. Dénes Maybe he got that ideea in an restaurant been thirsty and waiting to long the waiter to come with the wine.  |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 04:22 pm |
| I wasn't unfortunately born when the air kills took place on that date.....I reffer to various books and archives on which is mentioned with great certainty that only one Luftwaffe pilot managed to bring to Liberators down on that day.....so do you think that accessing the data base you mentioned would change the picture? or were all other US, Luftwaffe , related books and arhives wrongly informed...which of course there's such possibility ...an bytheway I did access data base related to ARR claiming the 2 air kils , are there any gun camera photos to back up the ARR claim ? Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 04:33 pm |
| I possibly, though I have to look for a few photos of WWII when B-17', B-25's, B-26's and B-24 came back with severer damages , however if on that outboard wing the hydraulics and flight control cables where thorn apart , yeah your theory would fully apply I also wana cite you one example a few years ago......when an Israeli F-15 which is a rather a very heavy fighter ,during a mid air collission lost 3 1/2 part of the left wing ..and yet it managed to land.....I know B-24 is heavier and designed differently......I still stick to the theory that control cable thorn apart and loss of hydraulics may bring the plane beyond control...and since you mentioned wind tunnel involvement...can you please tell on what area of activities do you work ? Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 04:39 pm |
| Hello As far as I am concerned I was one , by now I fly B-757/767 XLR freighters and nothing but this ....regarding Steve you got to ask him. I did fly F-16D series Block 40 , T-38 , PC-7 and PC-9 Take Care Alex |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 14, 2004 07:11 pm | ||
Alex, I know about the F15, but lets compare the F15 with the B24 a little what is the trhust provided by one P&W F100-PW-100 and two P&W R-1830-65 Twin Wasp, also the difference betwen the mass of an F15 and a B24 and also the difference between the aerodinamics of the two planes.LEast but not last: what kind of controls had a B24 and what kind of cotrols has an F15 remember: it was hard enough for a B24 pilot to pilot the plane without any dammage, just immagine what happens when all of the sudden you loose half of your right wing on that machine.The control cable theory might also be correct, but I highly doubt a B24 can fly with only half of the right wing, actually we can do some math and see if it is possible to fly.Tomorrow if I have time I will look into B24 profile data and lift surface of the wings and will do a basic "calcul" I work as an engineer at a subsonic wind tunnel. |
| Posted by: C-2 December 14, 2004 07:59 pm | ||
Ha Ha ha ! That's a good one!! It is the same as the Mikey,with a lance and without a horse  |
| Posted by: Victor December 14, 2004 08:38 pm | ||
The idea was that one cannot just ignore the Romanian claims simply because the Luftwaffe does mention them. From what I seen in Tony Wood's list of Luftwaffe claims, only the 49th Fighter Squadron (from the 4th Fighter Group) has claims confirmed by the OKL in late 1943-early 1944. Does that mean that there were no ARR claims on the Eastern Front except those? When researching the events on 1 August 1943, one should take into consideration all sides, including Romania. Since the subject of pre-23 August 1944 was tabu during the Communist era, tehre was no serious historical work dealing with the Romanian fighter activity published until way after 1990 and then most in Romanian. Few books published in English use proper data on ARR. Gun cameras weren't used on IAR-80B&C fighters of the 6th Fighter Group and of the 45th Fighter Group or the Bf-109Gs of the 53rd Fighter Squadron. But I also doubt that the Bf-109Gs of JG IV had, yet their claims are considered valid. Why shouldn't Romanian claims be taken into consideration? All pilots can exagerrate, especially in those conditions. It wasn't restricted to Romanians. And since we are talking about gun cameras, 2nd lt. Herbert Hatch was credited with 5 "Fw-190" shot down, 1 probable and 1 damaged on 10 June 1944, using most likely his gun camera for evidence, as he was the only one who returned. Yet the losses of the 6th Fighter Group that day don't support his claims. The gun camera wasn't perfect. |
| Posted by: C-2 December 14, 2004 09:38 pm | ||||
Carol Anastasescu,has also 2 cofirmed kills. One B 24 by cannons and the second by unortodox methods-ramming... I tried meeting him two years ago ,but he was ill... Don't know if he's still alive. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 10:12 pm |
| I must admit that you are basically right , during the war there many confussions, many exagerations and air kills which were probable were confirmed and those who were confirmed were turned into probables due to human errors, frequent loss of pilot and equipment ....however the historians from the 15th AF , 376th Bmb Grp, 98th , 44th ,93rd,389th all 7 historical books I have on Tidalwave, Luftwaffe Archives, US Goverment archives , they all say one thing and the same ...two B-24's at Ploesti. Here is the record of the Luftwaffe Here is the translation from the Luftwaffe Personnenregister ( Fliegender Personal) , Berlin Wilhelm Steinmann was born on 15 January 1912 at Nürnberg. He joined the Luftwaffe in 1936 and trained as a bomber pilot. Steinmann served with 3./KG 53 from 1939 to 1941. He later served as Technischer Offizier with II./Fliegerkorps. He then underwent conversion training to become a fighter pilot. On 6 October 1942, Steinmann was posted to the Gruppenstab of I./JG 27 based on the Channel front. He was serving with 3./JG 27 when he recorded his first victory on 18 May 1943, a RAF Typhoon fighter-bomber shot down over the Channel. On 1 June, Steinmann claimed a RAF Spitfire shot down. However, he had made a mistake in identification and had shot down a Bf 109 G-6 flown by the Gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 27, Hauptmann Erich Hohagen (56 victories, RK). Hohagen was forced to bail out of his Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 16 391) but had been wounded in the incident. Hauptmann Steinmann was exiled to Romania to the staff of Jagdfliegerführer Rumänien as punishment. Steinmann was transferred to I./JG 4, based in Romania, in mid-June 1943. He shot down two USAAF B-24 four-engine bombers during the American raid on the Ploesti oil refineries on 1 August. He was the single pilot to bring down two American bombers on the same day. On 14 September 1943, Steinmann was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 4 based in Italy. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 10:13 pm |
| Are you saying now that there was an other ARR pilot who shot down two liberators also on the Tidalwave ,beside the other Roumanian pilot and Hauptmann Wilhelm Steinemann ? Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 10:22 pm |
| Mytzu Please run the tests on the using the parameters of the the B-24 and your wind tunnel , maybe you can run a small scale test ? I am really curious. I have a 1 : 40 hrs pilot familiarisation footage of the 15th AF B-24 dated 1942 ...except the palying back and fort with the supercharger during climb and cowl flaps from the pilots point of view I dont think it was more difficult to fly than the B-17's , once gained speed was manuverable and was well better equipped than the B-17. Sint curious de resultatele dela tunelul the vant. AL |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 14, 2004 11:07 pm |
| Here is something from the USAF Magazine : The Ordeal of Sad Sack II ================= The heroism of Sad Sack II's crew typified that of the more than 160 crews that bombed refineries at Ploesti in the low-level attack of Aug. 1, 1943. Most readers of AIR FORCE Magazine are familiar with the Aug. 1, 1943, low-level attack on refineries near Ploesti, Romania. A carefully prepared plan for simultaneous strikes on assigned targets by a force of almost 170 B-24s was disrupted en route by bad weather and navigation error. It was, nevertheless, a day of unsurpassed heroism. Leaders of the five B-24 groups saved a broken plan from disaster--but at a terrible cost. Nearly one-third of the B-24 force was lost in combat or forced by battle damage to land in neutral Turkey. Many stories and several books have been written about that mission, but less has been said about the heroism of individual crews. The story of Sad Sack II, a B-24 from the 66th Bomb Squadron, 44th Bomb Group, epitomizes the valor and self-sacrifice of so many on that mission. The 44th, an Eighth Air Force group, had been sent to North Africa to participate in the Ploesti mission. Col. Leon W. Johnson, commander of the 44th and later a four-star general, led 37 of his bombers on that mission. Unlike the two groups that preceded him, Colonel Johnson turned at the correct initial point and led 16 of his planes to their target--the Columbia Aquila refinery--while 21 of his bombers broke off to attack another target. The 16 descended to their bombing altitude of 250 feet. They could see that their target had already been hit by another group in the confusion of the disrupted plan, but Colonel Johnson, who would later be awarded the Medal of Honor, elected to continue his strike as planned. As the 16 B-24s approached their target, which was obscured by heavy black smoke, they came under concentrated small-arms and antiaircraft fire from all sides. Before "bombs away," Sad Sack II, piloted by 1st Lt. Henry Lasco, took many hits. Left waist gunner SSgt. Charles DeCrevel was shot through the thigh. Tail gunner Sgt. Thomas Wood was killed. The No. 2 engine was knocked out, and its propeller would not feather. It seemed to the crew impossible for any plane to survive a bomb run through the maelstrom of smoke, fire, and exploding delayed-action bombs that engulfed the target. This was it. At bombs away, navigator 2d Lt. Harry Stenborn's chest was torn open by an 88-mm shell. He managed to crawl along the bomb bay catwalk to the rear of the aircraft, where he collapsed and died. Top turret gunner TSgt. Leonard Raspotnik and radio operator SSgt. Joseph Spivey were hit. Neither survived. Lieutenant Lasco knew then that they could not make it back to North Africa. He decided to head for Turkey. By this time, Sad Sack II was at treetop level, vibrating badly, and barely able to remain airborne. Several Bf-109s attacked the critically damaged bomber. The wounded Sergeant DeCrevel continued to fire at the enemy fighters, downing one, while ammunition boxes exploded around him. He was wounded by more shell fragments. SSgt. Albert Shaffer, the right waist gunner, kept shooting at the fighters, though one of his legs had been almost severed by enemy fire. The bomber was down to about 50 feet with one wing low when a Bf-109, coming in level at 10 o'clock, shot the pilot through the face, stunning and temporarily blinding him. Copilot 2d Lt. Joseph Kill leveled the wings just before Sad Sack II bellied into a corn field. Bombardier 2d Lt. Dale Scriven was killed in the crash; both of Lieutenant Kill's legs were broken, and one of his ankles was dislocated. Lieutenant Lasco was pinned in his seat by a harness that would not release. He finally managed to free himself, remove the tangle of wires around Lieutenant Kill's legs, and drag him out of the burning wreckage through a hole in the fuselage. Still dazed, Lasco staggered off to look for help. While he was gone, Romanian peasants stole Lieutenant Kill's watch and ring, beat him, and left him for dead. Sergeant DeCrevel fought his way out of a plane he later described as "a pile of burning junk." Then he remembered that Sergeant Shaffer was still inside, immobilized with only one functioning leg. DeCrevel went back and dragged Shaffer out of the wreckage. After stripping off his own smoldering clothing, DeCrevel also went for help. Of Sad Sack II's nine crew members, all had been wounded and five killed. The four survivors--Lieutenants Lasco and Kill and Sergeants DeCrevel and Shaffer--became POWs in Romania until they were rescued by Fifteenth Air Force B-17s in late August 1944, after the Germans had retreated before advancing Soviet troops. Aug. 1, 1943, will always be special in USAF history. It was a day of supreme heroism on a unique scale, when hundreds of men laid their lives on the line--and many lost--to complete their mission. Alex |
| Posted by: Dénes December 15, 2004 01:42 am | ||
In total, three Rumanian fighter pilots claimed doubles on Aug. 1, 1943: Lt. av. Ioan Bârladeanu, Lt. av. Carol Anastasescu, Adj. sef av. Dumitru Ilie The latter pilot of Gr. 6 vân. reported to shot down the two B-24s south of River Danube, over Bulgarian territory, without witnesses; therefore, his claims remained unconfirmed. There were a total of 14 B-24 claims filed by Rumanian fighter pilots on that busy day. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: mabadesc December 15, 2004 04:55 am | ||
Looks like we have a (retired) officer on the forum. F-16D, huh? Very, very cool. You should be proud of your accomplishments. Not many people can claim to have done what you used to do. Most just dream about it or spend their time talking about it on historical forums.... Since you also wrote a few words in romanian, I assume that you are an american who was part of the USAF, but of Romanian descent. Correct? In any case, welcome to the forum once again. It's good to have someone with practical experience on the subjects discussed... |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 15, 2004 05:43 am |
| Denes Since there are no gun cameras photos ledt to back up the Roumnian pilots claims, the aerial testmonies of their own mates are the sole proves ......2nd air divison pilots n aircrews of the 15th AF who managed to get back to Lybia were debriefed byAF and Intel...Luftwaffe made their aown ssesments too and recorded the intelligence gathered,.which finally was adopted throughout the years by historians and guys like u...I am puzzled that the odds are 1:100 ......it simply can't be that entire 15th AF , US Inteligence, Luftwaffe Abwehr und Aufklaerungsdienst , historians and airmen who participated at Tidalwave were all wrong......I rather tend to believe that the figures of ARR are exagerated and unless proven they aren't recorded else but at ARR Forum and with ARR vets who may wana paint a rozy picture which ocurred as well with other allied and axis fighter groups and later on revoked or endorsed ....I am certain that you agree with me....but if u dont lets buid a time machine n set Aug 1st,43 as starting date Alex PS; THe 15th AF recorded a pursuit event over Bulgaria by a Bulgarian Pilot called 2nd Lt Stefan Marinopolsky on a BF-109 who attempted air to air work against the returning armadas, though failed in full........no records whatsoever of a roumanian pilot overflying Bulgaria who may have had an unconfirmed twin kill of Liberandos |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 15, 2004 07:29 am | ||
Only 3 of his claims were credited with the gun camera ( his gun camera film was brocken after his 3rd "Fw-190!!!" strangely coincidence the exact nr. of 6th FG looses.) The other 2 claims were sustained by his wingman Lt. Morrison but i doubt that he had time to stay only for Hatch victory observer and not watch his tail were IAR 81C chasing both in that melee fight over Popesti Leordeni. And BTW the gun camera don't show all the time the plane crashed but mostly the hits on the enemy plane who could be only damaged. |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 15, 2004 07:46 am | ||
Alex I will try to do it but not in the wind tunnel - I am not that rich I will do it first on paper, then I will simulate it on a grid (in order to do this I will need to model 3D a B24). |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 15, 2004 07:54 am | ||
Alex here is a possible scenario for Tidal Wave overclaims: One B-24 arrive at Vega rafinerries and was hit in extreme right engine by a 88 flak shell, the b-24 with an engine burning with smoke loose alttitude -the AA gunners claim a victory. The pilot managed to gaine altitude and leave the area. On the way back 30 miles south Ploesti a german Bf-109 chase him and kill the tail gunner and knock him the left engine near fuselage- the crippled bomber was considered a sure victory by the Bf-109 pilot who was low on fuel and he had to come back to the airfield. But the crippled B-24 still airworthy after 20 miles more was jumped by 2 IAR 80 who gave the final shot on his right valid engine and the plane crashed - the two romanian pilots claiming a shared victory. So the final count is 3 victories and only one B-24 shot down in reality. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 15, 2004 09:09 am | ||||
I found the data related to this picture: B-24 H-10-CF
Sn. 42-64499 Pilot Peterson 456 BG, 745 BS Hit by Sgt. Bill P. Garcia ( nr. 18220948 ) bailed out from another B-24 and crashed near Ploesti on 5/5/’44 (MACR 4749) |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 15, 2004 10:32 am |
| Before I start doing this can anyone provide me information that will help me build the 3d model of a B24 ? Also please note something: the ammount of surface that can create lift on the right wing (the dammaged one) is around 50% of the initial ammount (you must take out the engine canopy and a certain space around them and also a certain space near the fuselage) - keeping this in mind try to immagine what happens when you suddenly lose half of your lift on the right side while flying such a beast at low speed, you just don't have the time to compensate (even if it would be possible to do so, which I highly doubt). It will be quite interesting to simulate this and find out what happens, so anything that will help me build the 3d model is much apreciated. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 15, 2004 01:27 pm | ||
Cantacuzino, thanks for your answer......now it starts making sense to me..I guess there were many confusssions on shot down whom and as such it finally leads back towards my initial message Many thanks , its very helpful Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 15, 2004 01:34 pm |
| Hi again, how and where did you find the photo because is an other position but is the same aircraft...though from what I keep hearing from 376th Bmb Grp it occurred on Tidalwave and not in 1944.....do you have details on the aircraft of Bill Garcia ( its name not serial number ) .....secondly if a human impact causing such destruction at impact gives me to think that they weren't at low altitude bombing but at higher altitude at cruise speed ........that might have been a hell of an impact and a disaster for all who saw it in real.....god bless him. I would be very interested if you have additional details on this incident, thanks in adavance Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 15, 2004 02:01 pm |
| I am receiveing from Florida Vets new tapes on the Tidalwave and B-24's over Roumania after Tidalwave all kind action taken sequences , footages never seen before...and I will get some photos taken and post them.......in the mean time I have Tidalwave sequences downloaded in RAM format ........can anyone see RAM formats...if yes let me know your email and I will send it over Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 15, 2004 02:03 pm | ||
This particular picture was taken by a member of 456BG on the 5 may'44 mission to Ploesti. The plane lost on that day from this group were: MACR 4749 745 Sq,456 Bg, Pilot Peterson B-24 “Taboo” Sn: 42-64499 5/5/1944 Ploesti-(Garcia Hit) MACR 4886 746Sq, 456BG, Pilot Lehner B-24 “Yo-Yo” Sn: 42-78235 5/5/1944 Flak Ploesti MACR 4713 746 Sq Pilot Beck B-24 “Deuces Wild”Sn: 42-52222 5/5/1944 Flak Ploesti Roy Edgar Clements' Story 15th Air Force, Roy was a radio tail gunner and was manifested aboard “Deuces Wild “ No. 42-52222, a B-24 Liberator Bomber, which departed from Stornara Field, Italy on a bombardment mission to Ploesti, Rumania on 05 May 1944 at about 2:20 p.m. Just before reaching the target, his plane was hit by flak, an explosion followed and two planes collided. The B-24 was broken in two at the waist section. Police records revealed eleven men from these two planes lost their lives. There were three unknowns listed. However, the records at the Bolovan Cemetery disclosed that only six remains were received at the cemetery, but did not include Roy's name. The remains were buried in a common grave. No explanation was ever given for these discrepancies. Roy was awarded several medals. Among them the Air Medal with two Oak Leaf Clusters and the Purple Heart. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 15, 2004 04:14 pm | ||
Many thanks for the message , where is Bulovan cemitary ? any photos ? Thanks Al |
| Posted by: Victor December 15, 2004 04:42 pm | ||
I am not saying that all Romanian claims were valid, but I wouldn't rule them out just because many American authors, who probably never accessed Romanian archives, say so. Until the 1990s the Soviet archives were closedto the West and most of the books on the Eastern Front were written using German sources mainly and some of them generated stories like "endless Russian manpool and resources", "Lend Lease won the war for the SU" etc, etc. Now, thanks to many authors that had the wilingness to study the Soviet records (I will name col. Glantz for example), we have a better picture of what actually happened. The same can be applied to this case. The Romanian pilots' claims can't be just be ignored. There was an interesting theory, that Wily's second kill was actually achieved by a Romanian pilot, but credited to Steinman who also fired on the Liberator. |
| Posted by: Dénes December 15, 2004 07:09 pm | ||
No. The photos posted by Cantacuzino are from private sources. For example, the original print of I.A.R. 80C, No. 279, is in my own collection. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 07:21 am | ||
The photo with IAR 80C nr.279 i have it from the archiv of "Muzeul militar national" So Denes I understand you have the original negative film or you found an old original paper picture from Barladeanu family. It's interesting to know if it's more clear the mascot on the fuselage on your private picture. The one I have it it's poor quality copy. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 07:29 am |
| Yeah, I get the point , though why would the American, Russian , German and UK war archives tell something contrary to what is now being claimed by ARR records who seeing light again after 61 years ? finally who's Glanzmann ? And ultimately why the mentioend air victories were not properly recorded anywhere but ARR ? were all Roumanian acft poorly outfitted or defective gun cameras? why other confirmed Roumanians victories were confirmed by the Germans,Americans and Russians and only those about a few Liberandos here and there would be obscured by the Germans, wrongly credited by Amies and Allied Forces ? Ever heard of accumne theory ? Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 07:32 am | ||
Bolovan probably is ( or was) a small village near Ploesti. I will check an old map of the area, maybe i will find it. Anyway i found the name of the guy who took the picture : On a mission to Ploesti on May 5, 1944, Sgt. George Dancisak captured a picture of a B24 that had lost its wing tip and was falling out of control. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 07:36 am |
| Tell me, were the remains of the majority downed US Airmen burried in Roumania returned to the US or are they still burried overthere ? if yes I think is just about the time some people on here get some photos posted on this foruum..I gonne get some WWII Bomb Grps , Ftr Grps and Confederate AF mates of mine visit this forum..... Thanks for your help mate Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 07:40 am |
| And here is the picture( courtesy Michael Dancisak) of the B-24 wich Sgt. Dancisak was crew member in may'44. Sgt. Dancisak , Lt. Laszewski, Lt. Oran R. Key, Jr.( co-pilot ), Bob Perry( nose gunner) and Jonas A. Leopold, Jr. were crew members in may ‘44 flying with B-24”Reluctant Beaver”, Aircraft Sn. 42-78239, 456BG . |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 07:50 am | ||
Most of them were returned to the U.S. ( or burried in other european Cemetery with americans) but many of them are still buried in Romania. I know the story told by an old guy who found near the lake Comana an american single engine ( Mustang??) with the pilot dead in the cockpit. He took it in his wagon and he burried himself in the Comana cemetery. Btw, I found were is burried the unfortunetly Sgt.Garcia who hit that B-24"Taboo": |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 07:51 am |
| Outstanding photo, great work and I count you will keep posting on this topic material is starting to spark new evidences, memories and untangle old questions which were assesed after the war as futile knoted. I can't get it on why Bill Gracia would be listed on the Ardens cemitaries and not in Roumania where he still may have found the final resting place ? I saw the 456th cemitaries roaster on their website . Stay in touch Al |
| Posted by: LiberandoPaul December 16, 2004 08:04 am |
| Howdy Alex My dad was a 2nd Lt. with 456th Bomb Grp at some point he was under Col Leon Johnson famous 8 Balls, he was in Korea and retired after Vitenam war as Col. at Hickham AFB Hawai. If he was here to follow your thread he would asked to ride back in time with him and join the 8 Balls , I gather you are a military pilot or you were one and still flying today .....Is the greatest topic on the net about Ploesti B-24's I ever saw...greetings from Maui and please keep post anything you know on the Ploesti raid. Peter [LiberandoPaul was another avatar of alexkdl andwas baned - admin comment] |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 08:38 am | ||
It's my mistake. Not all the americans in Ardennes cemetery were burried but many of them are only comemorated ( if their body was never found). Probably this is the case of Garcia who's body probably was not indentified by romanian authority the same as the story of Roy ( missing from Bolovan cemetery list) |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 09:02 am |
| Many thanks, you didnt make any mistake...they are posted as MIA on the collective memorials in Ardenns because one may be missing in Roumania keep in touch Al |
| Posted by: DIVISIONER December 16, 2004 09:52 am |
| Buna Alex please continue your articles, I like them very much I am also Air Force officer in Roumania and your subjects make great pleasure and are profesionals about bombarding Ploesti in 1943. Rumania military aviatian historia is my topic interest since many years Thank you , Mircea [DIVISIONER was another avatar of alexkdl and was baned - admin comment] |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 10:13 am |
| Hello Mircea Many thanks for your comments and support.....as you noticed I elected to not respond this guy anymore as unlike him ,I have no interest to get personal at all neither I like his style as he was rather personal than making a point ......in any case what do you do at MK Air Base ? Pilot? Technician ? Admin ? I was many years in the Air Force myself Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 16, 2004 01:28 pm |
| B-24 D (ex BoilerMarkerII ) in romanian service. This is a 1:48 scale model of National Museum (made by a friend of mine Cornel Nastase ). |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 16, 2004 02:27 pm |
| Absolutely fantastic Cantacuzino, thanks for sharing. He did a great job.....is just a shame none knows where the BoilmakerII is today . I have build the TEGGIE ANN, HAIL COLUMBIA and THE FLACK ALLEY I put you attached one. If there are any other photos on dispaly at the Museum raid related or other pilot or personal recovered effects or items such as flight gear etc etc kindly send me some photos , you help will be greatly appreciated. If there is a way to get a IAR-80 or 81 model( desk or one to be build) I will be ready to trade it off with a Ploesti 15th AF footageVHS NTSC from the gun camera , BN and Pilot positions as well INTEL of the 15th AF or an other aircarft model . Let me know , any many thanks again Alex |
| Posted by: Dénes December 17, 2004 03:08 am | ||
What I have is an original, over 60 years old print. I have to find it and check for the personal emblem, as you requested. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:16 am | ||
Below you have "TEGGIE ANN" of a friend of mine Razvan Bujor. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:21 am |
| And also from National Museum 1:48, IAR 80 modeled by Dan Melinte. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:26 am | ||
In the picture from the same museum it's a tissue map with Italy and binoculars from americans POW. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:34 am | ||
A found the small village Bolovani on an old map ( 1937 ) but it was not in the Ploesti area but at SW of Bucharest near Gradinari village. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:36 am |
| Here is the map with other Tidal wave B-24 crashed place on it : Butimanu, Ogrezeni. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 07:40 am |
| And the map with the PLoesti area with also the B-24 crashed places: Bilciuresti ( Barladeanu first victory), Nedelea. The airfield Targsor( IAR 80 )and more to search if you have good eyes. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 17, 2004 08:12 am |
| Cantacuzino, absolutely teriffic all the photos and details, many thanks...I am preparing some stuff for you this afternoon and gonna post it. As soon as I get the new Ploesti footages from Florida I gonna photo them and post them too.Your friend did a fantastic job on the TEGGIE ANN it came better than mine , though I spend over 3 weeks of work on the Flack Alley, TEGGIE and HAIL COLUMBIA of " Killer " Kane . I review the maps Mulzumesc din nou,will be soon in touch Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 10:29 am | ||
Lt.Anastasescu story for 1 august’43 “In the morning of 1st August 1943, I was on duty on the Pipera airfield, replacing my comrade Teodor Nicolaescu, who was at his sisters' wedding. After we took the planes out of the hangar we sat down in lounge-chairs relaxed and calm, because usually, the alarm duty was boring. At 10:25 we received the order to exercise "extreme caution" and at 11 o'clock we were in our seats. We sat there for two hours strapped in our seats and in the flying suits under a killing sun. At 13:20 we took off, but our orders were to fly at 200 m, which was very unusual, because at that altitude dog fighting is very difficult, if not impossible. It was a big surprise for us to see a compact formation of bombers underneath us: there were American B-24s.They were practically flying wing next to wing, like they were at a parade. I ordered the attack. When we got close to the bombers, a stunning tracer barrage unleashed. I had the impression that all of them were aimed at my forehead and I felt cold drips of sweat on my back. At 100 m I fired at part of the left wing where I knew were the fuel tanks, but nothing happened. To avoid the incoming fire from the machine-guns of the Liberator, I dove quickly and I almost crashed. When I managed to recover, the bombers were already under heavy fire from the AA artillery around Ploesti and some refineries were in flames. It was like hell. I closed up on the same B-24 and aimed for the same area of the wing, but still nothing happened. I came in for a third time and fired. In the same time I felt a powerful hit in my airplane. As I pulled up I saw the bomber going down in flames, but I was in the same situation. I opened the cockpit, but I was at 50 m and couldn't jump. I started to climb slowly, expecting to simply blow up in any second. I saw a B-24 coming at me, probably to give me the final blow. I was passing through horrible moments and couldn't bear any more. I didn't have any way out, so I decided to ram him and finish it quickly. He tried to avoid me, but was to late. I felt a powerful heat and then I woke up in the hospital"( English translation Victor Nitu) And a nice diorama with Anastasescu IAR 80 nr.222made by polish modeler Artur Gołębiewski. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 11:28 am |
| And rom. Bf-109 Ploesti defenders versus Tidalwave. On the right side in the picture Sgt. Encioiu Mitrica 53sq.( JG4 Vierte Staffel ) credited with 1 B-24 shot down on 1 august '43. His plane was damaged during the fight and made a bellylanding near the Pipera railstation. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 17, 2004 11:38 am |
| On 1 august '43 when the alarm was given, Sgt.Encioiu took off in the cockpit of Bf-109 "white 1" his squadron leader mount (Cpt.Toma Lucian ). Here is the picture of the Bf-109 "white1" Mizil airfield '43. The standard RLM grey colours were green motlled overpainted. On the cowling is the 53sq emblem "Mikey Mouse riding a horse" ( C-2 Avatar ) |
| Posted by: Dénes December 17, 2004 03:34 pm | ||
This map solves a long-lasting debate: the official wartime spelling of the city was PLOESTI, not PLOIESTI, as it's currently spelled. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Dénes December 17, 2004 03:50 pm | ||
What is the emblem seen on the fuselage side, in front of the cockpit? Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor December 17, 2004 03:52 pm |
| It's Bambi, I believe. |
| Posted by: Dénes December 17, 2004 03:57 pm | ||
That's debatable. In my view, only the factory codes (Stammkennzeichen), or the previous Luftwaffe unit's tactical number, as well as the fuselage Balkenkreuz was painted over with either green, or grey. The engine cowling also received a coat of paint, to cover a previous emblem, or a yellow colour. The standard Luftwaffe grey camouflage scheme (RLM 74/75/76) was retained. Check out another photo of 'White 1', published in my Osprey book on ARR fighter pilots, page 38, bottom. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Dénes December 17, 2004 04:03 pm | ||
Is that documented? This is the first time I see Anastasescu's mount with any sort of emblem. Col. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor December 17, 2004 04:29 pm |
| No, it isn't documented. When I discussed with Artur about the diorama some years ago, I mentioned the "Bambi" emblem used by the 6th Fighter Group (as I thought back then). |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 17, 2004 05:11 pm |
| Please excuse my ignorance - but where is the National Museum and what does it have on display ? |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 17, 2004 05:23 pm |
| Cantacuzino Here are some more interesting photos and topics about tidalwave. Bellow is the Congressional Medal of Honour Citation of Second Lieutenant Lloyd H. Hughes, Air Corps, United States Army for his bravery at Ploesti. Sources...his family ablum and Wright Patterson AFB , OH. His plane at Ploesti was EAGER EAGLES For conspicuous gallantry in action and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. On 1 August 1943 Lieutenant Hughes served in the capacity of pilot of a heavy bombardment aircraft participating in a long and hazardous minimum altitude attack against the Axis oil refineries of Ploesti, Rumania, launched from the northern shores of Africa. Flying in the last formation to attack the target, he arrived in the target area after previous flights had thoroughly alerted the enemy defenses. Approaching the target through intense and accurate antiaircraft fire and dense balloon barrages at dangerously low altitude, his airplane received several direct hits from both large and small caliber antiaircraft guns which seriously damaged his aircraft, causing sheets of escaping gasoline to stream from the bomb bay and from the left wing. This damage was inflicted at a time prior to reaching the target when Lieutenant Hughes could have made a forced landing in any of the grain fields readily available at that time. The target area was blazing with burning oil tanks and damaged refinery installations from which flames leaped high above the bombing level of the formation. Will full knowledge of the consequences of entering this blazing inferno when his airplane was profusely leaking gasoline in two separate locations, Lieutenant Hughes, motivated only by his high conception of duty which called for the destruction of his assigned target at any cost, did not elect to make a forced landing or turn back from the attack. Instead, rather than jeopardize the formation and the success of the attack, he unhesitatingly entered the blazing area and dropped his bomb load with great precision. After successfully bombing the objective, his aircraft emerged from the conflagration with the left wing aflame. Only then did he attempt a forced landing, but because of the advanced stage of the fire enveloping his aircraft, the airplane crashed and was consumed. By Lieutenant Hughes' heroic decision to complete his mission regardless of the consequences, in utter disregard for his own life, and by his gallant and valorous execution of this decision, he rendered a service to our country in the defeat of our enemies which will be everlastingly outstanding in the annals of our nation's |
| Posted by: Victor December 17, 2004 09:16 pm | ||
Cantacuzino is referring to the National History Museum, which is located on the Calea Victoriei, opposite the CEC Building. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 17, 2004 09:26 pm |
| "Hell's Wench," a B-24 badly damaged by anti-aircraft artillery fire, led the 93rd Bombardment Group (Heavy) in its daring low-level attack on the oil refineries at Ploesti, Romania, which supplied two-thirds of Germany's petroleum production at that stage of World War II. Lt. Col. Addison E. Baker, an Ohio National Guardsman who commanded the 93rd, ignored the fact he was flying over terrain suitable for safe landing. He refused to break up the lead formation by landing, and led his group to the target upon which he dropped his bombs with devastating effect. Then he left the formation, but his valiant attempts to gain enough altitude for the crew to escape by parachute failed and the aircraft crashed. For their gallant leadership and extraordinary flying skill, both Baker and his pilot, Maj. John L. Jerstad, received the Medal of Honor, posthumously. The raid, nicknamed "Operation Tidalwave," was costly, with 54 of the 177 bombers lost and 532 of the 1,726 personnel engaged listed as dead, missing or interned. Baker's service epitomized the role of National Guard aviators during World War II. Because of their experience, most of them were transferred from their 29 pre-war observation squadrons after mobilization. As individuals, they helped train and lead the huge numbers of volunteer airmen who served in Army Air Force units during the war.Courtesy 44th Bmb Grp |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 17, 2004 09:42 pm |
| This plane took part in the 93rd Bomb Group's first mission on 9 Oct 1942 and was shot up so badly it was going to be used for parts, however it was put back into flying condition and went on to become the first 8th Air Force B-24 to complete 50 missions, including Ploesti, and in fact did go on to 53 after being flown by three different assigned crews. On 4 Apr 1944, Walt Stewart flew it back to the states with a picked crew of guys from all four 93rd squadrons who had completed their missions and went on to do a war bond tour Courtesy 93rd |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 17, 2004 10:02 pm |
| As the first wave of bombers roared into the target, some as low as 50 feet, the German defenses opened up with a barrage of fire. Within moments the entire area erupted with exploding bombs, bursting shells, gushing flames and billowing palls of smoke. One by one the gallant crews took their aircraft through the intense wall of Ack-Ack and 88mm ground fire, and into the burning inferno to deliver their deadly cargo 44th Bmb Grp |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 17, 2004 10:44 pm | ||
Thanks Victor ! I must pay it a visit - shame on me I didn't do it untill now. Alex fantastic material !! Thank you for sharing ! |
| Posted by: Armada December 17, 2004 11:16 pm |
| Tereffic posts, very very interesting !!! Please keep posting Dave |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 18, 2004 12:21 pm |
| Mytzu many thanks for your comments , I have finally found the grave site in Missouri of the 5th Congressional Medal of Honour awardee at Ploesti , Lt Donald Pucket who didnt enjoy so much publicity as Kane, Johnson, Baker, Jerstad and Hughes , he and his crew died over the same target in jULY 1944 Donald Dale Pucket First Lieutenant, US Army Air Corps Born: December 19, 1915 at Longmont, CO Entered Service: Boulder, CO Date/Place of Action: July 09, 1944 - Ploesti, Rumania Unit: 343d Bombardment Squadron, 98th Bombbardment Group, 8th Air Force Presentation: G.O. 48 - June 23, 1945 Date of Death: July 09, 1944 (Killed In Action) Buried at: Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery - St. Louis, MO Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 18, 2004 12:27 pm |
| PUCKET was not a TIDALWAVE hero and received substantial less publicity than the Tidalwave heros which was a year later on July 1944 at Ploesti too, The TidalWAVE CMH recepients were : Johnson, Jerstad, Hughes, Baker and Kane Here is the Presidential citation for Donald Pucket Alex The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pleasure in presenting the Medal of Honor to *PUCKET, DONALD D. (Air Mission) Rank and Organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 98th , Bombardment Group. Place and Date Ploesti Raid, Rumania, 9 July 1944. Entered Service at: Boulder, Colo. Birth: Longmont, Colo. G.O. No.: 48, 23 June 1945. Citation: He took part in a highly effective attack against vital oil installation in Ploesti, Rumania, on 9 July 1944. Just after "bombs away," the plane received heavy and direct hits from antiaircraft fire. One crewmember was instantly killed and 6 others severely wounded. The airplane was badly damaged, 2 were knocked out, the control cables cut, the oxygen system on fire, and the bomb bay flooded with gas and hydraulic fluid. Regaining control of his crippled plane, 1st Lt. Pucket turned its direction over to the copilot. He calmed the crew, administered first aid, and surveyed the damage. Finding the bomb bay doors jammed, he used the hand crank to open them to allow the gas to escape. He jettisoned all guns and equipment but the plane continued to lose altitude rapidly. Realizing that it would be impossible to reach friendly territory he ordered the crew to abandon ship. Three of the crew, uncontrollable from fright or shock, would not leave. 1st Lt. Pucket urged the others to jump. Ignoring their entreaties to follow, he refused to abandon the 3 hysterical men and was last seen fighting to regain control of the plane. A few moments later the flaming bomber crashed on a mountainside. 1st Lt. Pucket, unhesitatingly and with supreme sacrifice, gave his life in his courageous attempt to save the lives of 3 others. |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 18, 2004 12:52 pm |
| Here is another one (I found it while researching for my project): KINGSLEY, DAVID R.  The 97th BG : “The raid on Ploesti of June 23 included all six groups of B-17s from the 5th Bomb Wing [15th Air Force]. The defenses were put into action promptly. Forty-plus single engine fighters hit the Fortress formation before they arrived at the target area. When the bombers did get to the complex, it was covered with smoke and the flak barrage was hot and heavy. A 97th Bomb Group Fortress flown by Lt. Edwin O. Anderson took a direct hit in the right wing while on the bomb run, shattering the control surfaces and ripping a fuel tank loose. The bomb run was completed with one engine out. As the B-17 emerged from flak, it was immediately pounced on by enemy fighters. The tail gunner Sgt. Michael J. Sullivan, was wounded by a 20mm shell that ripped through his position. Sullivan’s intercom was out, so he crawled up to the waist where the gunners picked him up and took him into the radio room. There Lt. David R. Kingsley, the bombardier, administered first aid. As Sullivan recalled: “I was pretty banged up, and my chute harness was ripped off by 20mm cannon shells, and as I was in a daze and shocked, I couldn’t see what was going on in the ship. I crawled out of the tail after I was hit. My waist gunners gave me a first aid but couldn’t stop the flow of blood that was coming from my right shoulder. They called up Lieutenant Kingsley and he game me a tourniquet to stop the flow of blood. “Finally the blood was stopped, but I was pretty weak. So then Kingsley saw that my parachute harness was ripped, so he took his off and put it on me. As I was laying in the radio room, he told me that everything was going to be all right as we had two P-51s escorting us back to our base. We were still about 500 miles from home and the ship was pretty badly shot up. Finally, our escorts, the P-51s, were running low on fuel, so they told our pilot that they would have to leave and asked if we could make it. Our pilot thought he could and they left. “As soon as they were gone, we were then attacked by eight Bf 109s who came out of the sun and started making passes at us. Finally, after about a fifteen minute flight, we were told by the pilot to get ready to bail out as our ship was pretty well shaking apart in the air and most of our guns were knocked out. You see, that was the third group of enemy fighters to his us that day. “As soon as the bail-out bell was given, the rest of the gunners bailed out. Lieutenant Kingsley then took me in his arms and struggled to the bomb bay where he told me to keep my hand on the ripcord and said to pull it when I was clear of the ship. Then he told me to bail out. I watched the ground go by for a few seconds and then I jumped. Before I jumped, I looked up at him and the look he had on his face was firm and solemn. He must have known what was coming because there was no fear in his eyes at all. That was the last time I saw Kingsley, standing in the bomb bay.” Kingsley ran into copilot Lieutenant Symons as he went forward in the bomb bay. He asked where the pilot was, and went forward to the flight deck. As Symons bailed out he almost hit Lieutenant Anderson, who had just bailed out the nose hatch. Perhaps Kingsley was searching for a spare parachute that should have been aboard. The men parachuting downward then noted the weird maneuvers of their Fortress. Anderson thinks that Kingsley did his best to try to crash-land the B-17, but with only one engine going it proved to be too much for him. At last, it corkscrewed into the earth. For his self-sacrifice. Lieutenant Kingsley was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.”  KINGSLEY, DAVID R. (Air Mission) (alta sursa) Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army Air Corps, 97th Bombardment Group, 15th Air Force. Place and date: Ploesti Raid, Rumania, 23 June 1944. Entered service at. Portland, Oreg. Birth: Oregon. G.O. No.: 26, 9 April 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty, 23 June 1944 near Ploesti, Rumania, while flying as bombardier of a B17 type aircraft. On the bomb run 2d Lt. Kingsley’s aircraft was severely damaged by intense flak and forced to drop out of formation but the pilot proceeded over the target and 2d Lt. Kingsley successfully dropped his bombs, causing severe damage to vital installations. The damaged aircraft, forced to lose altitude and to lag behind the formation, was aggressively attacked by 3 ME-109 aircraft, causing more damage to the aircraft and severely wounding the tail gunner in the upper arm. The radio operator and engineer notified 2d Lt. Kingsley that the tail gunner had been wounded and that assistance was needed to check the bleeding. 2d Lt. Kingsley made his way back to the radio room, skillfully applied first aid to the wound, and succeeded in checking the bleeding. The tail gunner’s parachute harness and heavy clothes were removed and he was covered with blankets, making him as comfortable as possible. Eight ME-109 aircraft again aggressively attacked 2d Lt. Kingsley’s aircraft and the ball turret gunner was wounded by 20mm shell fragments. He went forward to the radio room to have 2d Lt. Kingsley administer first aid. A few minutes later when the pilot gave the order to prepare to bail out, 2d Lt. Kingsley immediately began to assist the wounded gunners in putting on their parachute harness. In the confusion the tail gunner’s harness, believed to have been damaged, could not be located in the bundle of blankets and flying clothes which had been removed from the wounded men. With utter disregard for his own means of escape, 2d Lt. Kingsley unhesitatingly removed his parachute harness and adjusted it to the wounded tail gunner. Due to the extensive damage caused by the accurate and concentrated 20mm. fire by the enemy aircraft the pilot gave the order to bail out, as it appeared that the aircraft would disintegrate at any moment. 2d Lt. Kingsley aided the wounded men in bailing out and when last seen by the crewmembers he was standing on the bomb bay catwalk. The aircraft continued to fly on automatic pilot for a short distance, then crashed and burned. His body was later found in the wreckage. 2d Lt. Kingsley by his gallant heroic action was directly responsible for saving the life of the wounded gunner.  |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 18, 2004 01:19 pm |
| Mytzu itzi mulzumesc....I am very much aware about Kingsley, I visited 97th Bomb Grp at an Air Force base which I think today is part of Air Mobility Command, somewhere in the state of Illinois many years ago and I saw his memorial-.....my question is where is he burried...it looks that the grave yard is not at Arlington National Cemitary like all Medal of Honour Receipients ....so he may be burried on the state of Oregon or still in Roumania ? Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 18, 2004 01:44 pm |
| Alex you are most welcome. I am sorry but I have no information regarding the place he is burried.What I don't know yet is if the B17 crashed over Romania or Bulgaria - also if those 8 109's were romanian/german ones or bulgarian. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 18, 2004 02:12 pm |
| Yea I think was down by Boulgarians near Bulgarian border...I will investigate with my US friends the crash location Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 08:46 am | ||
Ofcourse it's debatable. My opinion was based also by a short ANF archiv footage with a alarm take off ( Mizil '43) with 53sq fighters Bf-109 "white 1", "white 3" all with dark colors patches all over ( most probably green). Americans bomber crew over Romania in their reports written two Bf-109 camo type : silver ( that means light grey colors) and dark colors ( the most probably 109 with more or less green). I know it's difficult to be 100% sure. But anyway a lot of romanians Bf-109 were over painted with green patches by germans ( see the Udet unit rom Bf 109 ) or by ASAM workshops after general repair. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 09:56 am | ||
Sorry I don't have your book. But if you are talking about the other "white 1" of Cpt.Toma Lucian flown in spring '44 on Otopeni (concrete airfield) pictures, yes I agree that the camo for this one is light RLM grey color ( no green patches ). In 53sq were at least 3 Bf-109 with "white 1''. One in summer '43 flown at Tidal Wave( the picture posted on this thread), one in spring '44 from Otopeni concrete airfield ( both planes with Mikey Mouse emblem) and a third one without the Mikey Mouse emblem but with the small nr. 233 on the fin. Only the first one ( in '43) it looks with green patches overpainted to me. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 10:08 am | ||
Sgt. Dancisak who made the famous picture with The B-24 "Taboo" hit By sgt.Garcia over Ploesti on 5 may was a real PRO photographer. Look at his camera. ( my digital Olympus C5050 is ten times little than this one) |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 10:16 am | ||
Alex, because you didn't mentioned detail about this B-24, i made my self a little research an I found the data related to this B-24 flown at TidalWave on 1 august '43. B-24D”CHIEF WAHOO” ( 20-E ) Sn 41-24297 Pilot Hines, Wilford E., 376thBG, 512thBS, - Landed Kardak LG, Turkey; Crew Interned. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 10:41 am | ||
The picture you post it it's not the same B-24 Black Jack flown at Tidal Wave. This B-24 it's Kaky camo and was lost late in '43 so probably it's only a name confusion. The tail serial number it's not on the the tidal wave rooster file. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 10:46 am |
| The original B-24" Black Jack" ( sand camo) flown at Tidal Wave on 1 august '43 is in this picture below. B-24 D "BLACK JACK" ( U ) Sn 41-23661 Pilot Hahn, Delbert H. 345thBS, 98BG Diverted to Sicily. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 10:52 am |
| I really can not find the aircraft nor the crew of the CHIEF WHAHOO anywhere in non of my books and material , do you have more photos and references about this aircraft....was it from 376th or 98th ? Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 10:54 am |
| yea its an extermly powerful camera.....were Bill Garcia remains ever found or enlisted with AAF as still MIA ? Al |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 20, 2004 10:55 am | ||
That colon of smoke looks preaty strange, what could it be? Maby a me 163? |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 11:00 am |
| yea it looks strange to me too but how would Komet ME-163 be stationed in Roumania......i still think are smoke trails from a damaged plane in front Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 11:10 am | ||
It was from 376BG, 512sq. It looks that you don't have the updated list with the B-24 flown on 1 august '43 in TidalWave mission. Ok i will think about to sent you but it will cost you another swiss beer ( I didn't forgot the first 2 beers from you refrigerator Keep them cool ) |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 20, 2004 11:32 am |
| If is 100% taken above Romania it must be a plane that went down in flames. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 12:35 pm |
| Cantacuziono insetad collecting Swiss beers which may finally get your entire friends tippy and won't allow you to post interesting messages, I have a better gift for you mate . Here is it, the B-24 MILITARY SECRETS which was hit and entire crew bailed out. You can see kneeling Sgt Garcia who has hit the outboard wing of the Liberator spiralling inverted and who's is MIA as the day of today. Squadron photo with "Military Secrets B-24 322" Kneeling S/Sgt Richard A. Martin, S/Sgt Rueben P. Staub, T/Sgt Charles H. Jackson, T/Sgt Calhoun H. Mullen (Died Non Battle 10/8/1944, buried in Leece, Italy), S/Sgt Celestino H. Garcia Jr. (KIA 6/6/1944), S/Sgt Benedict V. Mazzara Standing 2nd Lt. Lewis R. Kalb, 2nd Lt. Robert N. Vlachos, 2nd Lt. Edward S. Dieringer, 2nd Lt. William M. Wade I STILL DONT HAVE ANY RECORDS ON THE WHAOO CHIEF AND ITS CREW ! Photo 44th Bmb Grp , 2nd Air Division Asso. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 12:59 pm | ||
Ok, Alex I am not thirsty anymore. Thanks for the gifts. Attached is the Tidal wave rooster file GRP SQN SERIAL I.D. Name PILOT UNIT Men KIA POW INT EVD NOTES 44 66 42-40182 A FORKY II Gentry, Rowland M. 66thBS 9 8 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 44 66 41-23778 F LADY LUCK Felber, Robert E. 66thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 66 42-40375 G SCRAPPY II Scrivner, Thomas E. 66thBS 9 9 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 44 66 41-23936 J MARGURITE/QUEEN ANNE Flaherty, Joseph E. 66thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 66 41-23811 K FASCINATIN' WITCH Miller, Robert E. 66thBS 9 Diverted to Malta. 44 66 41-24153 L SAD SACK II Lasco, Henry A. 66thBS 9 5 4 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 44 66 42-40764 M HELEN B. HAPPY Irby, Shelby L. 66thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 66 42-40777 N FLOSSIE FLIRT Hughes, Charles E. 66thBS 9 9 Lost - Landed at Chorlu, Turkey; Interned. 44 66 41-24015 R WING DINGER Winger, George W. 66thBS 9 7 2 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 44 67 42-40995 C SATAN'S HELL CATS Houston, Rowland B. 67thBS 9 9 Lost over Romania on return flight. 44 67 42-63761 D LIL' ABNER Weaver, Worden L. 67thBS 9 1 8 Lost over Romania on return flight. 44 67 41-23779 G 4Q2 Henderson, Charlie P. 67thBS 9 Diverted to Malta. 44 67 42-40780 H AVAILABLE JONES Jones, Fred E. 67thBS 9 9 Lost - Shot down over Ionian Sea on return flight. 44 67 41-23817 L SUZY~Q Brandon, William H. 44HQ 9 Returned to Libya. 44 67 41-24232 M CALABAN Hill, James E. 67thBS 9 Diverted to Malta. 44 67 42-40267 N HORSE FLY Mitchell, Edward R. 67thBS 9 9 Lost - Landed at Chorlu, Turkey; Interned. 44 67 41-24229 P BUZZIN' BEAR Cameron, William R. 67thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 67 42-40371 Q G.I. GAL Reinhart, Elmer H. 67thBS 9 1 8 Lost over Romania on return flight. 44 68 42-40071 C MARGARET ANN II Jansen, George R. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 68 41-23788 D AVENGER Hughes, William D. 68thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 44 68 42-40731 N HAG MAG the Mothball Queen Martin, George P. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 68 41-23699 P LEMON DROP Phillips, Reginald H. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 68 41-24225 T FLAK ALLEY Alexander, David W. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 68 41-24211 U WING AND A PRAYER Holmes, Walter T. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 68 41-23813 V VICTORY SHIP Diehl, John H. 68thBS 9 1 Returned to Libya. 44 68 42-40373 Z NATCHEZ BELLE Shannon, Eunice M. 68thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 42-40172 C LYNN BARI II Anderson, William N. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 41-24235 C EARTHQUAKE (MCGOON) Bunker, Walter I. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 42-41013 D TROUBLE Stevens, Gordon S. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 41-24201 O BALDY AND HIS BROOD Strong, William H. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 42-40778 T SOUTHERN COMFORT Austin, Horace W. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 41-24234 U MR. 5 X 5 Beam, James C. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 42-40370 V HEAVEN CAN WAIT Whitlock, Charles A. 506thBS 9 Aborted. 44 506 42-40606 X TIMBA-A-H! Larson, Richard A. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 41-24282 Y RUTH-LESS Slough, Frank D. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 506 41-24283 Z OLD CROW McAtee, James C. 506thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 44 41-24024 34 BEWITCHING WITCH Carpenter, Reginald L. 67thBS 9 2 Lost -- Ditched in Med. On return flight. 93 328 41-24192 A DOGPATCH RAIDER Avandano, Joseph 328thBS 10 Diverted to Sicily. 93 328 41-23711 B JERKS NATURAL Hickman, Cleveland D. 328thBS 10 Diverted to Sicily. 93 328 42-40604 C SATAN'S ANGELS Ford, Herrel E. 328thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 328 41-23722 C BOMERANG Martin, Roy G. 328thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 328 41-23729 D SHOOT LUKE Black, George C. 328thBS 11 Aborted. 93 328 42-40994 D HELL'S WENCH Baker, Addison E. 93HQ 10 10 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 328 42-40246 F THUNDER MUG Longnecker, Russell D. 328thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 328 42-40128 J BALL OF FIRE III/WAR BABY Tate, Joseph S. 328thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 328 42-40612 K EUROCLYDON THE STORM Porter, Enoch M. 328thBS 11 8 3 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 328 42-40608 M VULGAR VIRGIN Turner, Claude A. 328thBS 10 10 Lost - Landed at Chorlu, Turkey; Interned. 93 329 41-23809 N HELLSADROPPIN II Harvey, Julian A. 329thBS 10 Aborted. 93 329 42-40127 O THAR SHE BLOWS AGAIN Merrill, Charles T. 329thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 329 41-24111 P PICCADILLY FILLEY Collins, Theron U. 329thBS 10 Aborted. 93 329 41-23682 Q THE BLASTED EVENT Brown, George S. 93HQ 10 Returned to Libya. 93 329 41-23810 S TARFU Hurd, Earl C. 329thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 329 42-40765 T VALIENT VIRGIN DeMont, Russell D. 329thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 329 42-40781 U HELLS ANGELS Harms, Roy C. 329thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 329 42-40804 X THE LADY JANE/BERTHA Meehan, William E. 329thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 329 41-24230 Z Jo-Jo'S Special Delivery/Hare's to Ya McBride, Ralph J. 329thBS 11 11 Lost - Shot down over Ionian Sea on return flight. 93 330 42-40969 A BIG NOISE Emmons, John W. 330thBS 11 Aborted. 93 330 41-24147 A THE DUCHESS/EVELYN Potts, Ramsay D. 330thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 330 41-24109 C READY & WILLING Roche, John R. 330thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 330 42-40613 E PUDGY Teltser, Milton 330thBS 11 6 5 Lost over Romania on return flight. 93 330 41-23717 H EXTERMINATOR Roper, Hugh R. 330thBS 11 11 Lost -- Mid-air collision with Olliffe during withdrawl. 93 330 42-40609 I JERSEY BOUNCE Long, Worthy A. 330thBS 10 6 4 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 330 42-24121 J LET'ER RIP Olliffe, Victor E. 330thBS 11 8 3 Lost -- Mid-air collision with Roper during withdrawl. 93 330 41-24226 L UTAH MAN Stewart, Walter T. 330thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 409 42-40617 N JOSE CARIOCA Stampolis, Nicholas 409thBS 10 10 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 409 41-24105 Q TUPELO LASS Dessert, Kenneth O. 409thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 409 41-23742 R LIBERTY LAD McFarland, Kenton D. 409thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 93 409 41-24215 S LUCKY Kendall, Harold K. 409thBS 11 Diverted to Sicily. 93 409 41-23754 U LITTLE LADY Wilkinson, Richard L. 409thBS 12 12 Lost - Landed at Chorlu, Turkey; Interned. 93 409 41-24298 V QUEENIE Brown, Llewellyn L. 409thBS 11 Diverted to Sicily. 93 409 42-40265 W HONKEY TONK GAL Womble, Hurbert H. 409thBS 10 1 9 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 93 409 42-40611 X DEATH DEALER Geron, Alva J. 409thBS 11 1 Returned to Libya. 93 409 42-40610 Y <unknown if any> League, Miles R. 409thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 93 41-24259 30 <unknown if any> Freese, Howard W. 329thBS 9 Aborted. 98 343 41-11776 O JERSEY JACKASS/BASHFUL McGraw, John J. 389thBG 10 8 2 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 343 41-11840 P THE WITCH Darlington, Julian T. 389thBG 10 6 4 Lost - crash land at Bulgaria-Yugoslavia border. 98 343 42-41007 P MARGIE Gooden, Clarence W. 343thBS 10 8 2 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 343 41-11767 Q SHANGHI LIL Looker, Carl S. 343thBS 10 Aborted. 98 343 41-11761 R THE SQUAW/SLEEPY LeBrecht, Royden L. 343thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 98 343 42-40655 S DAMIFINO or FOUR EYES Hadcock, Lawrence 343thBS 9 9 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 343 42-40082 T PRINCE CHARMING Bennett, Thomas W. 343thBS 9 Aborted. 98 343 41-11896 U- NIGHTMARE Bleyer, Julian N. 98HQ 10 Returned to Libya. 98 343 41-11921 W NORTHERN STAR/DOC Underwood, Glen W. 343thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 98 343 42-40313 X BOOTS Murphy, Lawrence E. 343thBS 10 8 2 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 343 42-40364 Y SNOW WHITE and the Seven Dwarves Gunn, James A. III 343thBS 9 8 1 Lost over Bulgaria on return flight. 98 343 41-11620 Z EDNA ELIZABETH Haverty, James C. 93rdBG 10 Aborted. 98 344 41-24197 A TAGALONG Hinch, Ralph V. 344thBS 10 5 5 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 344 41-24026 B BABY Weisler, Francis E. 344thBS 10 Aborted. 98 344 41-24198 C THE VULGAR VIRGIN Taylor, Wallace C. 344thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 344 41-11768 D KICKAPOO Nespor, Robert J. 344thBS 10 8 Aborted. 98 344 41-11803 E ROSIE WRECK'EM Arens, Herbert W. 344thBS 10 Aborted. 98 344 41-24040 F BIG OPERATOR Edwards, Hoover 344thBS 10 Aborted. 98 344 41-11819 G RAUNCHY Neeley, Samuel R. 344thBS 10 8 2 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 344 41-23656 H ROWDY II Gaston, Allen B. 344thBS 10 Aborted. 98 344 41-23795 I SNEEZY Johnson, Donald G. 343thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 344 41-23733 J SKIPPER Colchagoff, George D. 344thBS 10 Aborted. 98 344 42-40208 K SAD SACK Banks, William D. 344thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 98 344 41-24311 L HADLEY'S HAREM Hadley, Gilbert B. 344thBS 10 3 Lost -- ditched off south coast of Turkey. 98 344 41-11825 V Hail Columbia/LITTLE-CHIEF BIG-DOG Kane, John Riley 98HQ 10 Lost -- Crash landed on Cyprus 98 345 41-24246 N SEMPER FELIX Sulflow, August W. 345thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 345 41-11774 O CHIEF Fravega, Thomas P. 389thBG 10 Diverted to Sicily. 98 345 42-40663 P MATERNITY WARD Ward, John V. 345thBS 10 8 2 Lost - Shot down over Ionian Sea on return flight. 98 345 42-40991 Q <unknown if any> Deeds, James A. 345thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 345 41-11886 S LIL JOE Hussey, Lindley P. 345thBS 9 5 4 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 345 42-40102 T OLD BALDY Dore, John J. 345thBS 10 10 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 345 41-23661 U BLACK JACK Hahn, Delbert H. 345thBS 10 Diverted to Sicily. 98 345 41-11766 V CHUG-A-LUG Morgan, LeRoy B. 345thBS 9 1 Returned to Libya. 98 345 42-40402 W THE SANDMAN Sternfels, Robert W. 345thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 98 345 42-40316 X SNAKE EYES Blevins, Hillary M. 345thBS 10 Lost -- Crash landed on Sicily. 98 345 42-40312 Y AIRE LOBO Thomas, John B. 345thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 415 42-40662 A BLACK MAGIC Patch, Dwight D. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-24195 B LITTLE JOE Pettigrew, Wesley N. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 42-63758 D LI'L JUGHAID Nicholson, Robert G. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-23782 E BOILER MAKER II Helin, Theodore E. 415thBS 10 10 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 415 42-40195 F PENELOPE Speiser, Martin A. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-11815 G DAISY MAE Ellis, Lewis N. 389thBG 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-11817 H STINGER Opsata, Andrew W. 389thBG 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-11836 I LI'L DE-ICER Merrick, James L. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 41-24023 J FERTILE MYRTLE Shingler, Herbert I. 415thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 98 415 42-40322 K CORNHUSKER McCarty, Ned 415thBS 10 10 Lost - Shot down over Ionian Sea on return flight. 98 415 42-40520 M YEN TU McGuire, Edward T. 415thBS 10 7 3 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 98 42-40973 Z BATTLEAXE Salyer, Charles A. 389thBG 9 Returned to Libya. 376 512 41-24297 20-E CHIEF WAHOO Hines, Wilford E. 512thBS 10 10 Lost -- Landed Kardak LG, Turkey; Interned. 376 512 41-23724 22-Z DOODLEBUG McAtee, John E. 512thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 512 41-24258 23-A DESERT LILLY Iovine, Guy T. 512thBS 9 Aborted. 376 512 42-40563 28-D WONGO WONGO! Flavelle, Brian W. 512thBS 10 10 Lost -- Crashed into the Med at 1130, south of Corfu. 376 512 42-40229 31-B BOMB BOOGIE Miller, Richard T. 512thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 512 41-24294 36-V BREWERY WAGON Palm, John D. 512thBS 10 2 8 Lost near the target, Ploesti. 376 512 42-40658 38-F WARMAID Miller, James I. 512thBS 9 Diverted to Cyprus. 376 513 42-40315 40-P WOLF PACK DeVeuve, James P. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 513 41-11779 41-N LI'L ABNER Whitlock, Hubert H. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 513 41-11916 42-F TANGERINE Hobbs, Charles L. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 513 41-11591 45-G QUEEN BEE/LORRAINE Zimmerman, William R. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 513 41-24032 51-K LET'S GO! Fogel, Ernest W. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 513 42-40317 54-L BARREL HOUSE BESSIE Friberg, Wayne V. 513thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 513 42-40660 56-A LITTLE RICHARD Lear, Dean E. 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 514 41-11935 60-E PER DIEM THE SECOND Storz, Robert H. 514thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 514 41-24310 62-D <unknown if any> O'Sullivan, Donald P. 514thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 514 41-11636 63-P WASH'S TUB Bock, James 514thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 514 42-40206 64-I 8 BALL! Conn, Myron R. 514thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 376 514 41-24252 70-W <none> Ryan, Lyle T. 514thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 514 41-23410 72-J <unknown if any> Whipple, Harlan D. 514thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 376 514 42-40657 74-U G.I. GINNIE Appold, Norman C. 514thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 42-40664 100-A TEGGIE ANN Compton, Keith K. 376HQ 10 Returned to Libya. 376 515 42-40203 81-L *LITTLE ISADORE Bley, Charles W. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 41-11630 83-M CHUM-V *KITTY QUICK DuFour, Jerome P. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 42-40232 85-N *JOEY UPTOWN Holt, Guy E. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 42-40319 88-T *DOPEY GOLDBERG Hurd, Donaldson B. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 41-24030 90-K *GOOD TIME CHARLEY Gluck, Edwin L. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 376 515 41-24031 94-S *ANGIE THE OX Wright, Frank C. 515thBS 9 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40746 B OLE IRISH McLaughlin, Frank B. 564thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40772 C SCHEHEREZADE Blackis, John T. 564thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40803 F <unknown if any> Smith, Richard B. 564thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40776 H OLD BLISTER BUTT Wright, Robert L. 564thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40773 I <unknown if any> Fowble, Edward L. 564thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 564 42-40753 J <none> Hughes, Lloyd H. 564thBS 10 8 2 Lost near the target, Campina. 389 565 42-40629 N SCORPION Caldwell, Kenneth M. 565thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 565 42-40749 P SACK-TIME SALLY Braly, Roy E. 565thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 565 42-40716 R YOURS TRULY Rodenberg, Elmer R. 565thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 565 42-40744 S <none> James, Harold L. 565thBS 10 10 Lost -- Landed at Izmir, Turkey; Interned. 389 565 42-40787 V VAGABOND KING McCormick, John B. 565thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 389 565 42-40795 X *THE GOLDEN SANDSTORM Tolleson, James F. 565thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 565 42-40775 Y WOLF WAGON Matson, Kenneth H. 565thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 565 41-23933 Z SWEET ADELINE II Podolak, Stanislaus J. 565thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 389 566 42-40115 A- THE BOOMERANG Neef, Melvin E. 566thBS 11 11 Lost over Romania on return flight. 389 566 42-40722 B- THE LITTLE GRAMPER Dieterle, Jack W. 566thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 566 42-40735 C- SAND WITCH Horton, Robert W. 566thBS 10 9 1 Lost near the target, Campina. 389 566 42-40706 F- TONDELAO Whitener, Cecil J. 566thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 566 42-40623 I- <unknown if any> Westerbeke, Donald G. 566thBS 10 Diverted to Malta. 389 566 42-40738 J- THE OKLAHOMAN Conroy, Thomas C. 566thBS 10 Diverted to Malta. 389 567 42-40793 H- BLONDS AWAY Nading, William D. 567thBS 10 Diverted to Cyprus. 389 567 42-40619 N- <none> Ward, Emery M. 567thBS 11 Returned to Libya. 389 567 42-40743 O- <none> Sisson, Dale L. 567thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 567 42-40544 R- HITLER's HEARSE Mooney, Robert C. 567thBS 10 1 9 Lost -- Landed near Izmir, Turkey; Interned. 389 567 42-40747 S- <none> Selvidge, William M. 567thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 567 42-40807 U- <none> Spurrier, Chester E. 567thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 567 42-40733 V- <none> Gerrick, Clarence W. 567thBS 10 Returned to Libya. 389 567 42-40782 X- CHATTANOOGA CHOO CHOO O'Reilly, Robert J. 565thBS 10 1 9 Lost over Romania on return flight. 389 567 42-40751 Y- *TOUCH OF TEXAS Denton, William J. 567thBS 10 Returned to Libya. Totals: 1751 306 132 69 4 |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 01:21 pm |
| Last mission over Tergoviste .....The first pilot of the Flame McGoon was Lt. Ben Konsynski, and he gave her the name, based on a character in Al Capp's comic strip "Lil Abner." The target that day was the oil storage dumps at Targoviste, Romania. The crew on the last mission was as follows: William J. Paterick - Pilot Lester A. Mizer - Co-Pilot William L. Frese - Navigator Morton E. Smith - Bombardier Calvin F. Stanfill - Flight Engineer Archie M. Stien - Radio Operator Lawrence C. Longerbeam - Gunner Jerry C. Roch - Gunner Earl Haltli - Gunner Kenneth Hamilton- Gunner Lt. William L. Frese, volunteered for this mission, his 50th, that would have completed his tour. He was looking forward to his return home. Lt. Frese was captured and spent the rest of the war as a POW in Roumania. Resources 376th Bmb Grp According to Pilot William Patericks accounts, "had we been able to fly 2 more minutes, we would have been rescued." But the results of the 4 direct flak hits were devastating. Of the 10 man crew, 6 were captured and became POWs. One man, Morton Smith, the bombardier, didn't have his chute, so he piggybacked down with the navigator, William Frese. Half way down, Mr. Smith lost his grip and fell into the burning wreckage of the Flame McGoon. 3 other crew members were shot to death from gun fire from the ground. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 01:51 pm | ||
Yes, Alex I think i can help you. I have a friend who has 2 Kits( in the box) of LTD IAR 80 ( 1:48 scale) and I will try to convince him to keep one for you. But it's not a 100% real replica of the IAR 80 so you will have a lot of work to modify it. I have another one ready made LTD kit. And I have 80% parts of resin kit 1:48 IAR 81C wich is very close to the real one in detail and shape ( I will post some pictures soon) and I hope when will be finshed the moulds ( at one small company from Ploesti ) to multiply them. And in the future ( next year ) I will finished my special project of IAR 81 C big 1/5 RC scale ( 2,20m wingspan) 41CC gas engine, functional retract. Also the fuselage will be fiber resin from moulds.( BTW in the future if you will convince Mister Spielberg via Confederarate air force to do the Tidal Wave movie I can provide the support with IAR 80 Radio control in flight for dramatic battle footage) |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 02:56 pm | ||
Here is the resin cast engine of 1:48 -IAR 80 -81 painted |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 20, 2004 02:59 pm | ||
And you have a veri nice diorama with a LTD kit of IAR 80 made by a french modeler Philippe. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 03:17 pm |
| looks rellay great , though a pitty is not for sale or trade Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 20, 2004 03:23 pm |
| Strawberry Bitch on Display USAF Museum OHAIO |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 21, 2004 09:01 am | ||
Alex, you forgot to mentioned the day of this mision for Targoviste. Ok, i made myself the reserch but next time try to finished yourself. B-24 “ Flame Mc Goon” Sn 42-72767 376 BG lost 7/31/1944 MACR 7210 |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 21, 2004 09:04 am |
| Cantacuzino, regretfull the details of the mission to Targoviste were not included on the database I received Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 21, 2004 09:14 am | ||
Alex, somefing is wrong with Garcia indentification. One source is Bill.P.Garcia (Ardennes cemetery rooster) and your source is Cellestino Garcia. Because Garcia is a common name in USA ( mexican origin) please double check and tell me who is wrong. ( for me the cemetery indentification is better ) |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 21, 2004 11:11 am |
| cantacuzino you've got a point...though all his military records , photos and people who were with him at 376th pointed out that he's wrongly listed at the Ardennes memorial as Bill Garcia....because he was was not called Bill Garcia....secondly the fact that he is registered under Ardennes memorial is an other element showing superficiallity at the US Military burial and memorial authorities of that time...which was something common at the US Armed Forces of WWII and to some extend of the US Armed Forces of today too !! If you would look at the B-24, B-17 , B-26 sites on the Internet 80% of all the topics are related to locating of missing family members and solving puzzles and misteries about specific crews and aicrafts rather than discussing the historial aspects of each group or operation......that has much to do with Garcia too which is an example out of many thausands during WWII...superficiality and underestimating other nationalities and other nations is still part of the life style of the communities in N.America ,thats why an other Pearl Harbour took place on 9/11 again ( I am telling you this because I got part of my military and airline training in the US ,and lived overthere 6 years and I know it for sure ) Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 21, 2004 12:38 pm |
| Yes Alex but also the date are different Bill P.Garcia is mising on 5 may '44 and the other S/Sgt Celestino H. Garcia Jr. is KIA 6/6/1944. And the units are different Bill is from 456BG and Celestino is from 376BG ( or 44BG ? ). For me are to many missing parts from this puzzle so I gave up and keep only the Garcia name as a reference for "5 may" issue. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 21, 2004 05:45 pm |
| I can't explain all these discrepancies...though I have it confirmed that Clestino Garcia on the photos posted by me was the one who got killed while impacting after bailout the other aircafts wing Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 21, 2004 06:06 pm | ||
The only thing i believe could resolve the mistery of Garcia is to get combat missing aircraft crew report ( MACR ) for the B-24's ( 456BG) lost on 5 may '44 and check the crew members name. But someone must pay around 30 $ to get that information from the US archiv. I heard that american vet. had acces free to this kind of sources. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 21, 2004 06:57 pm |
| Here is the photo of the crew of the LIL ABNER which was shot down after the target by either ARR or Luftwaffe fighters. The gunner kneeling 2nd from the right shot down 2 fighter aircrafts prior the airplane has carshed...all bailed out and survived except him. From the book " Target Ploesti " Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 21, 2004 08:24 pm |
| CIP, the smoke trails behind the B-24 you questioned on my posted photo were of newly developed chemical bombs at that time , leaving behind them smoke trails to pint point the target and the hits . I discovered the explanation in one of my books about Ploesti and I am not aware that they had the need to do so Alex |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 21, 2004 10:53 pm |
| thanks for the information, oance again great photos!!! |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 07:47 am | ||
On 6 june '44 the 376BG lost only one B-24 over Romania. Probably Sgt.Celestino was one of the crew member who died that day. B-24 Sn 42-78075 376BG lost 6/6/1944 MACR 5829 So i think 2 americans both named Garcia lost their life over Romania. Bill P. Garcia from 456BG on 5 mai'44 ( Ardennes Cemetery list) and Sgt. Celestino Garcia from 376 BG on 6 june '44. All the documents and photographs show that the one who hit the B-24 "Taboo" lost on 5 may'44 is Sgt.Bill P.Garcia from 456BG. The other version with Garcia Celestino is based only from memories of vet . who mixed the names, the dates and the story about this B-24 shot down by a jumper. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 07:52 am | ||
Ok Alex i'm impressed. But how about a picture with a rara avis. An original Tidal Wave B-24 compass. The last direction indicated by this compass was "Festung Ploesti". |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 07:54 am | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 08:01 am |
| And german O.W. Wagner goggles used by IAR 80 pilots. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 08:03 am |
| And a german Junghans cronograph used on IAR80-81 fighters. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 08:05 am |
| And a pressure gauge from german planes. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:31 am |
| Cantacuzino, I tried to get info on the TABOO which Garcia hit ( Bill Garcia) and yet none of the huge data base I have and my resources have one inch of lead which may enable us to untungle this futile knoted issue. Bellow the photo of the YO YO of Garcia , though we was later on added to the crew. Where did you get the photo of the Sgt who photographed the inverted flat spin of TABOO ? ALex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:34 am |
| Here are new and yet unplubished photos taken from TUPELO LAS over Ploesti at TIDALWAVE and in one of them it can be seen a crash of one of his wingmans. All these photos are sole courtesy of the TUPELO LAS vets AL |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:36 am |
| Here is again a photo from TUPELO LAS, taken from the copilot sea...the smoke of a crashing B-24 can be seen at 3 o'clock Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:38 am |
| Last phoro from Tupelo Las over Ploesti at very low altitude over the target, at 11 o'clock a huge tank explosion from one of the Ploesti refinaries can be seen Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:42 am |
| Here is a publication in 1943 which has appeared on one of the US Newspapers in Chicago about this raid and one crew from Chicago who was overthere Alex Courtesy : The Flying Circus Memorial |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 10:55 am |
| Wow very nice photos of the IAR instruments , they are in good shape...I know that Sinn and Junghaus but also VDO in germany produce the clocks. Is there any boresight system preserverd ? can you get any photos ? Alex |
| Posted by: cipiamon December 22, 2004 11:06 am |
| i ve never seen that picture whit the liberator verry tragic moments, Alex are you sure is been hit above Romania? or is a maby? Anyway stunning photogrphs, thank for posting such rare photos! |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 11:20 am |
| Cip many thanks, I just relay on info I get from Confederate AF, and Bomb veterans families...I can't tell it for sure but many went down over the skies of Roumania and yet still also over Ploesti after 1943 Tidalwave ...I was told the crew was enroute to Ploesti from Italy and occured somewhere over Roumania Best Regards and Happy X-Mas to you and Family Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 11:38 am | ||
Try to find on Google the story of The B-24H Boojum crew. Or try this email adress: dancisak@tulane.edu |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 01:50 pm |
| Many thanks , I shall look into it Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino December 22, 2004 03:14 pm |
| Here is a picture with Cpt. Toma Lucian ( in the middle) the 53sq leader in '43. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 04:17 pm |
| Its a great photo, who's the person right to him and what kind of a head apparel is he using ? I also noticed that Capt Toma is wearing the Luftwaffe pilot badge on his right chehst ( did he obtain Pilot/Observer badge or just Pilot because I cant see the badge colours ,and where did he train in Germany for it ?) instead left bellow the tunic pocket as most of the Luftwaffe worn them...also he wear a Wehrmacht injury stripe.....where did he get injured ? Thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Dénes December 22, 2004 05:24 pm | ||||
That particular head gear was fashionable among airmen (and probably not only). I think it's purpose was to keep the hair flat and not let the wind ruin it.
I cannot see it. Are you referring to the white chevron(s) usually sawn on the uniform's left sleeve? What I can see on the photo in that area is simply a light reflection. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 06:02 pm |
| Denes the injury stripe is on the middle of the uniform Red/ White in real though you can distinguish it eventhough is B&W Al |
| Posted by: Dénes December 22, 2004 06:44 pm | ||
If you refer to the three-colour ribbon in the upper button hole, that was for the Iron Cross, 2nd Class. Gen. Dénes P.S. Congratulation for being promoted to an officer's rank (2nd Lt.) |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 22, 2004 09:22 pm |
| Hello Denes, thank you for the congrats. Normally on Wehrmacht uniforms that ribbon meant a front injury I wasnt aware that its stands for an iron cross on the Roumanian uniforms . I still wana know if Toma was qualified as Pilot or Pilot Observer of the Luftwaffe. Pilot / Observer has golden leafes around the german adler and silver was only pilot. Happy Seasonal Greetings Alex PS : where do you live in Canada ? I have family in Ottawa and Richmond, BC |
| Posted by: Dénes December 22, 2004 10:24 pm |
| I am not an expert on German decorations, medals, etc., but to my knowledge the Iron Cross, 2nd Class, was symbolized by a three-colour ribbon inserted in the top button hole of the uniform - exactly the same way Cpt. av. Lucian Toma wears it. Wound marks were worn on the left sleeve. Gen. Dénes P.S. I live in Toronto |
| Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu December 23, 2004 12:14 am |
| I also thought that was the ribbon for Iron Cross 2nd class.As I recall the Wounded Badge looks very different and is made from metal. |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 23, 2004 03:57 pm |
| Denes Yes you and Mytzu are probably right , my expertise reffers to Air Forces and military aviation therefore I may be wrong. I was in Toronto , is a great place.....I lived several years in Fla Best Regards Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl December 24, 2004 04:14 pm |
| Cantacuzino this cockpit is mostly probably not the one used on the Tidalwave or generally on bombing missions is rather a factory test aircraft because where the magnetic compass is located was replaced by operational squadrons with an RMI Instrument ( Radio Magnetic Indicator and an ADF Indic) Best Wishes and Merry X-Mas Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:26 am |
| First of all I want to thanks for greetings and wish everybody from this forum a happy new year . But let's start the new year with more interesting issues about our topic Tidal Wave. Below you have the picture of a lucky B-24 returned to Benghazi after Tidal Wave mission. B-24 Sn 42-40657 radio call "74 -U” G.I. GINNIE 376BG, 514thBS Pilot Appold, Norman C. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:31 am |
| And rare footage from the wreck of "Brewery Wagon". Sn 41-24294 ” 36-V” 3376BG, 512thBS Pilot Palm, John D. 2KIA,8POW Lost near the target, Ploesti. A romanian officer checking the tail turret guns. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:33 am | ||
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| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:34 am | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:39 am |
| And the right side of the fuselage ( near the engine) of Brewery Wagon was witten " I'am mean witto boy". |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 08:55 am |
| And the rudder of Brewery Wagon |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 09:03 am |
| B-24 Sn 42-40265 “ W ” HONKEY TONK GAL 93BG, 409thBS Pilot Womble, Hurbert H. Lost near the target, Ploesti 1KIA, 9POW . And below you have "Honky Tonk Gal" wrecks. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 09:05 am |
| And the nose art from right side . |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 09:07 am |
| And the 409thBS "Teddy Bear" emblem on the left side of the fuselage of Honky Tonk Gal. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 09:09 am |
| And the rudder of Honky Tonk Gal with a 20mm bullet hole. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 10:22 am |
| Cantacuzino, happy new year to you and I am happy you are back on this special topic which still captures the mind of many aviation historians till the day of today. The photo you just posted have saw them for the first time and are very interesting, I am about to post some new video release photos of the Taidalwave. The other question I have is that I was trying to locate Colonel Leon Johnson aircraft name and photos through THE FLYING EIGHT BALLS (44th Bmb Grp) and TRAVELLING CIRCUS formations.....I wansn't able to find him flying in none of the participating aircrafts and listing of the pilots , command pilots and senior observers on that mission....maybe you have a clue on what aircraft name was he flying and as what and are there any photos available ? Thanks and best wishes for the new year Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:13 pm |
| 53sq bf-109 ready for take off against Tidal wave.( Mizil '43) |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:16 pm |
| Another lucky B-24 returned to Libya. B-24 Sn 41-11817 “H” STINGER 98BG, 415thBS Pilot Andrew W. Opsata. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:19 pm |
| And not so lucky one. B-24 Sn 42-63761 “D” LIL' ABNER 44BG, 67thBS Pilot Weaver, Worden L. 1KIA, 8 POW Lost over Romania . |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:20 pm | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:23 pm |
| And the rudder of Lil'Abner. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:30 pm |
| And the B-24 Chattanooga Choo Choo crashed at Nedelea ( Princess Caradja land) Sn 42-40782 ” X-“ CHATTANOOGA CHOO CHOO 389BG, 567thBS, Pilot , Robert J.O'Reilly 1KIA, 9 POW. Lost over Romania |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:31 pm | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:33 pm |
| And the romanian soldier taking out the guns and ammo from "Chattanooga Choo Choo" |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:37 pm |
| And below is probably the wrecks of "Boomerang". B-24 Sn 42-40115 "A-" THE BOOMERANG Pilot , Melvin E.Neef 566thBS, 389BG Lost over Romania |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:38 pm | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:45 pm |
| Also the romanian soldier taken out the guns from "Boomerang". |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:51 pm |
| A wheel from Jersey Bounce. Sn 42-40609 ” I” JERSEY BOUNCE 93BG, 330thBS Pilot Worthy A. Long, 6 KIA, 4 POW Lost near the target, Ploesti. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 02:52 pm | ||
And the rudder from Jersey Bounce. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:00 pm |
| And below the burned rudder - probably B-24 "G.I.Gal" B-24 Sn 42-40371 “Q” G.I. GAL 44BG, 67thBS Pilot Reinhart, Elmer H. 1KIA, 8POW Lost over Romania . |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 03:08 pm |
| From the cockpit over Ploesti |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:10 pm |
| The tail turret guns from unknown B-24 shot down near Ploesti. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:11 pm | ||
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| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:14 pm | ||
And one engine from the same B-24 . |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:17 pm | ||
And one wing |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 03:34 pm |
| Cantacuzino, fanthastic videos....where did u get them from ? are they available in Roumania ? ALso bellow is the photo the Lufwaffe Major D.Pitcairn who was the air controller of the Luftwaffe who identified the raid and sounded the alarm Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 03:46 pm |
| Bellow the photo of Lt J.D.Franks of the first B-24 EUROCLYDON to go down in Ploesti , he would bail out and his parachute wont open.......where is he burried ??? Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 03:48 pm |
| Lt John D.Plam the pilot of Brewary Wagon would decide on its own to brake away from Col. Compton errant formation flight to Bucharest and would head alone for Ploesti on Tidalwave . He broke his arm and leg when crash landed in Ploesti. Book " PLOESTI "by James Dougan . On the photo bellow he's already captain and the photo was taken after Opeartion Reunion in 1944. Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 03, 2005 03:55 pm | ||
The footage was taken after the raid by famous romanian camera operator Ovidiu Gologan( who also made the movie with Antonescu death) from O.N.C. (Oficiul National de Cinamatografie) and" Ministerul Propagandei" Yes, i have a record from I. Grigorescu TV documentary about Tidal Wave . |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 03:58 pm |
| After a brief but painful treatment by German soldiers and Rumanian peasants, Lt.Palm of the BREWERY WAGON Palm was taken to a Bucharest hospital where his nearly severed lower leg was removed. He was visited by King Michael and Queen Helen. Palm befriended the royal family and was never officially listed as a POW. Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 04:07 pm |
| John V. Hogan - Bombardier to fly with Col. Compton to Ploesti . Originally scheduled to be the lead Bombardier and fly in the command ship to Ploesti with Colonel Keith K. Compton and in formation with Palm , but was hospitalized with an ear infection. Awarded five Air Medals and two Distinguished Flying Crosses. He died June 26, 1981. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 04:13 pm |
| Any chance to get a copy of these Roumanian footages in due future ? Let me know Al |
| Posted by: cipiamon January 03, 2005 05:13 pm |
| Stunning photos as usual on this topic, Alex, pleasse, can you post a better quality (or resolution) version of this last photo, whit the shadow casted over the houses, i am especially impressed by this one ! |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 06:40 pm |
| Hello CIP, happy new year to you and your family.....Regretfully I am unable to improve the quality of the photos because were digitally photographed from my TV and VCR set on picture hold mode....I did what I could . Best Regards Alex |
| Posted by: The8balls1 January 03, 2005 06:53 pm |
| ALEX !!! My dad was with 376th Bmb Grp as B/BN Bombardier / Navigator and flew on several missions to Ploesti. On the tidalwave he flew on Wolf Wagon which was allocated to 565th BS . He didn't talk much of the Tidalwave as he lost many friends overthere and yet I have many memories left and it's a shame no motion picture yet started on Tidalwave because the whole PR on the WWII was behind the B-17's rather B-24's which took a hell of a lot more burden than the 8th AF B-17's. Nevertheless it's amazing that on a Roumanian forum I would find the greatest thread on the Tidalwave I ever saw on Internet , I am impressed and in the memories of my dad I thank you for doing all this and therefore be well and keep doing this !!! Blue Skies Mat [The8balls1 was banned, because it was yet another one of alexkdl's avatars - admin note] |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 03, 2005 07:07 pm |
| Howdy Mat I appreciate your comments and I agree that Spielberg skipped the most currageous air raid ever done in WWII out of his mind and Holliwood would aim at 8th AF Memphis Belle rather Ploesti because Mr Whyllers daughter was still alive to do the motion picture . Let me also add , even the Germans and Roumanians AA and Air Forces in WWII have described the flying skills and sacrfices of the crews as to be admired. Regarding the aircraft of your dad I have details of the command pilot, co pilot , Navigator though rest of the crew is no known. Also there was an observer on board who was he ? By the way on what aircraft ( name) was Col.Johnson assigned ? can you help me out with details ? Take Care Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 12:37 am |
| Dan, do you have any details on the aircraft bellow faith ? Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 12:41 am |
| Also about Miss Incindiary ...what happend to this plane? Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:25 am | ||
Hello Alex, I found this testimony for Col.Leon Johnson plane flown on Tidal Wave. The following is a fragment from an upcoming book “To North Africa and Hell” by Luc Dewez. In the lead ship, pilot Maj. William H. Brandon, seeing that White Five was burning fiercely, looked inquiringly at Col. Leon W. Johnson. The group CO, anticipating Brandon's question, said in his mild but authoritative voice –"Harold, you're on target" and Suzy Q plunged into the burning inferno black as night. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:35 am |
| Alex, B-24 nr 33 "Miss Incendiary" it's not on the list of Tidal Wave mission rooster. The second photo depicted by you as " Miss Incendiary" is wrong indentified. Here is the data found for this picture. B-24 Sn 41-11591 "45-G" QUEEN BEE/LORRAINE 376BG, 513thBS Pilot William R.Zimmerman, 513thBS 9 Returned to Libya. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:42 am |
| Rare footage made by a member of 53sq. at Mizil airfield in summer '43. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:49 am | ||
Romanian pilots from 53sq. relax in Mizil around a "Pathefon" listenig the music of that days ( Zaraza, Femeia cu ochii verzi). The first on the left is Sgt.Stefan "Bebe" Greceanu ( with a long nose) and in the back on the right Cpt.Toma Lucian. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:52 am | ||
The same pilots with germans learning tactics with a B-24 model (aprox.1/10scale) before the TidalWave. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:53 am | ||
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| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:55 am | ||
Cpt.Toma Lucian on the left, and Bebe Greceanu on the right. In the back probably Sgt.Economu. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:57 am | ||
And now tactics with the help of hands. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 07:59 am | ||
And a rare smile of Cpt.Toma Lucian |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:02 am | ||
And an impresive Bf-109 spinner wich some B-24 gunners will not forget after The Tidal Wave mission. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:06 am | ||
And an alarm start of a 53sq planes on Mizil airfield summer '43. The first to take off is nr."white 1 "Toma Lucian mount . |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:09 am | ||
The rudder is white ( leaders planes) and the dark colors could be from an green patches overpainted the standard grey cammo. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:11 am | ||
The second to take off is "white 3" . The rudder keep the standard cammo. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:13 am | ||
|
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:14 am | ||
And the third plane is " white7" |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 08:18 am |
| And bulgarian pilot Cpt.Stoianov near his first victory on 1 august '43. B-24 "Prince Charming". |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 10:18 am | ||
Hello Alex, I didn't find anything in my database for this B-24 nr.43. It is not on the TidalWave mission rooster. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 10:22 am |
| Actually you are right I should have known from the begining on because the aircraft rolling on sand would have caused a T/O crash should have been one...so yes is on landing and yet the 376Bmb Grp saying Miss Incindiary was allocated to Ploesti under an other acft name or number....after somany years all details are scanty and its hard to determine who was what especially that Johnson is not listed anywhere. If I get it right you say that Johnson was flying as observer at SUZI Q .....I would wonder why because, Compton, Wood, Kane, Bakker , Jerstad were flying as command pilots and only Gen Ent was an observer......Its still a mistery with Leon Johnson on why he would fly as observer while Ent was listed under Compton plane as Observer .....Johnson wouldnt be listed anywhere in no records AL |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 10:51 am |
| Dan this photo with Stoyanow standing near the PRINCE CHARMING wing I havent seen it anywhere before and is a piece of rarity, my friend from 44th and 376 would love to see it !!! where did you get it from ? Also those of the air tactics on B-24 models of ARR pilots is again something rare ! Where these things showed up from after somany years ? Alex |
| Posted by: Iamandi January 04, 2005 11:38 am |
| Stoyan Stoyanov plane in 1943 Profile from: http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/stojanov/stojanov.htm Iama |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 11:42 am |
| Dan I think you've posted stunning photos and lets see if after all Spielberg may wana do a movie by the time we will get off this topic. For me there is an mistery left into the TIDALWAVE which is less retaled to flying or commanding skills of the pilots involved . 1. Why Compton who was the youngest Colonel Pilot of the Army Air Force would be lecetd as flagship for Gen Uzal Ent airborne command platform and not an aircraft with more experienced pilots . Why the experienced Navigator assigned for TEGGIE ANN would be all of a sudden sick prior departure, get in hospital and collect medals by flying a hospital bed ? Why would Col.Keith Compton whos wrong navigational error over Jugoslavia and wrong turn to Bucharest would cost somany lives later on end the war as General, be promoted to 2 and 3 star General and become the deputy Strategic Air Command during the cold war era ? Bytheway Keith Compton died in June 2004. 2. Out of other groups only Johnson and Compton be promoted later to major tasks within the USAF , while the rest such as Kane , Caldwell, Halpro Group and the other wont be heard very often of . 3. Why was Johnson not clearly listed on the raid ? 4. Why most of the lead airplanes would escape Ploesti inferno ( except Bakkers plane) and why would the other pilots of Compton formation who would decide on their own to leave the errand formation of Compton and fly out of the formation protection ( Box Formation ) to Ploesti without any major citations and CHM awards ? 5. Why would for years after the war people avoid getting deeper into who did what and where.... Well one thing it has happened ineed Brig Gen Uzal Ente was gone " with the wind" after the raid eventhough no direct fauilt of his can be assesed to what has occured ocerthere . I think there are many other puzzles such as gun camera fils and photos of the raid stored at 2nd Air Divsion of the 15th Archives in Virginia not yet released to public......so who knows what else went wrong Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 02:59 pm | ||
I'v got it from a (english language) bulgarian site. http://odin.prohosting.com/~vstoyano/FighterPilotAceWW2Stoyanov.htm |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 03:02 pm | ||
In fact Stoianov flew a Bf-109G ( not E-model ) in august '43. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 03:19 pm | ||
In romanian air force was common for the pilots to learn tactics with the help of scale models of fighters and bombers. I saw pictures with IAR 80 models ( aprox 1/48scale) used by pilots prior to Tidal Wave. Also other metodes were used to teach tactics. Among them one used by 52sq who cut the grass on their arfield in a form of a B-24 1/1 scale and the pilots made diving attacks shooting in the B-24 contour. But they were not aware about the power of the real B-24 guns ( covering all the angles ) until they met in combat. These things doesn't showed many years because of the repression regim of comunist countries ( WWII military archiv closed for long period for ordinary people) and the cold war. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 03:34 pm |
| Dan I saw Stoyanow page I am not aware that he damaged a second B-24 on the Tidalwave i though he was accounted only for the PRICE CHARMING the secon Pilot who was accounted in damaging the SNOW WHITE or an other from the Snow White & Prince Charming formation was Stefan Marinopolsky. As you stated Stoyanow didnt fly the G model. Bellow the photo from TARGET of TODAY PLOESTI Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 03:50 pm | ||
Alex, there are many mistery unsolved ( like Kennedy death ) in the case of Tidal Wave mission I have myself many questions similar with yours but like in the past in the present and in the future the wars have many contradictory decisions from the leaders involved ( Mostly based on politics and not for the safe of the human life ) Maybe people from around the world would learn to live together on this blue planet called Earth and choose better leaders to avoid this ancestry hobby for wars beetwen human races. ( maybe it's only a dream but let's start everybody with this dream) Dan. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 04:03 pm |
| Dan Here's the pilot of JOSE CARIOCA 1st Lt Nicholas Stampolis . It was the last mission of his aircraft and crew . A few miles out from Ploesti while hit over ploesti he would crash the ill fated B-24 into the local women prison first floor. Irronically until 1940 Anna Pauker was held there into the custudy until exchanged through a trade off deal with the Russians for a Roumanian Army spy held in Russia. Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 04:10 pm |
| Here the photo of Unterofizzier Erich Hanfland (Luftabwehr) who would shut down at least one B-24 of the Kanes formation from the famous AA train called Caterpillar Alex |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 04:14 pm |
| An inspection photo just a few days before the TIDALWAVE by a General Leutenant der Luftwaffe A.Gerstenberg (left) Commandiernden Offizier der Deutsche Streitkraefte in Roumania with an uknown ARR General taken near Ploesti. Goering would know why would he appoint a Luftwaffe General as CO of German troops in Roumania instead one of the regular Army ( Heer) Al |
| Posted by: Victor January 04, 2005 04:18 pm |
| Looks like Ermil Gheorghiu. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 04:19 pm | ||
The ARR General could be Jienescu ( it looks like him). |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 04, 2005 04:25 pm | ||
I said it didn't fly E-model in august '43. He flew G model on tidal wave day. |
| Posted by: Victor January 04, 2005 04:29 pm |
| He doesn't look at all like Jienescu. Plus Jienescu had been awarded the Mihai Viteazul Order 3rd class in 1941. There would be no reason for him not to wear it and wear the Virtutea Aeronautica Order Knight/Gold Cross class alone. Here is Gheorghiu in a photo from Aripi Romanesti. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 04:35 pm |
| Yes Victor is 100% as you stated though I guess the confussion lays at the poor quality of my photos which are rather old. Al |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 05:47 pm |
| Victor here's again the photo you mentioned scanned for you for ID purposes Alex |
| Posted by: Victor January 04, 2005 05:58 pm | ||
Gheorghiu's profile is unique (look at the photo I posted). Without a doubt that is him. Which raises the question over the validity of the date mentioned in the book (31 July 1943), when Gheorghiu was supposed to be still on the front with the 1st Air Corps. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 06:04 pm |
| Victor I understand so according to what you say was he the Chief of Staff of ARR at that time ? or AA CO? I am not as aware as you and Canatcuzino about his duties prior Tidalwave Al |
| Posted by: Victor January 04, 2005 08:56 pm |
| Gheorghiu was the the CO of the 1st Air Corps, deployed on the front in the Ukraine. He held this position until September 1943. Gen. av. Jienescu was the Undersecretary of State for the Air Force. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 04, 2005 10:00 pm |
| Many thanks Victor Al |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 07:57 am | ||
Below is the wreks of Lt. Hughes plane crashed on the river bad ( Prahova) south from Campina. B-24 Sn 42-40753 “J” Pilot Lloyd H. Hughes, 389BG, 564thBS 8KIA, 2 POW Lost near the target, Campina. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 08:04 am | ||
174 unindentified body of americans were burried on 4 august '43 in Cimitirul Eroilor ( Heroes Cemetery ) from Campina as stated by romanian police( Jandarmeria) in their reports. Below you have the picture of Hughes B-24 rudder with the serial number. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 08:08 am |
| And below another vision of Tidal Wave from artist Ion Tzaralunga. Boiler Maker II over the target. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 08:14 am | ||
Here is a picture of romanian and germans on Mizil airfield ( '43) study tactics with the help of scale wood models aprox. 1/48 scale ( but not Revell ). In the background the Bf-109 of Cpt. Steinmann. |
| Posted by: alexkdl January 05, 2005 11:09 am |
| Dan Outsanding photos, I was wondering who's the ARR pilot holding on his hands the two ME-109 models and stands rather in the background ? Also are still any graves ( can you take photos? ) of Hughes and his crew as well Bakker at Campina ? eventually other from the same raid who are still burried in Campina, Ploesti or Bucharest? Many thanks Alex |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 12:11 pm | ||
The poor quality of the photo doesn't help for pilots indentification but the two small planes looks to me as IAR 80's and not Bf-109. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino January 05, 2005 12:24 pm | ||
I 'm aware that Hughes and his crew were among the unindentified americans burried in Campina Cemetery probably in common graves, only seven were indentified and burried also in the same cemetery. I just call a friend of mine born in Campina and he said in the city there is no Cemetery with that name but it could be near the city. As for the pictures and more reserch in Prahova area at the crashed places of bombers we have to wait the spring ( the roads in Romania are not the same as in Switzerland ). But i will try to call a friend of mine from Ploesti maybe he knows something about the other Heroes Cemetery located in Ploesti . |