In its female version, Rodica also appears as Rada, Radanka, Radovanka, Radmila.
... Radu...
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Ancient, Medieval and Modern History > whose idea was this? |
| Posted by: virg January 03, 2008 06:17 pm |
| In Italy, Spain, and Portugal, "yes" and "no" are "si" and "no". In France the "oui" and "non" relate. In Romania it's "da" and "nu"? "Da"? The standard glib response to this (proximity of many Slavs) is unacceptable. How would they inadvertently wander into a pair of opposites to change only one? I think a useful question is, when and under what circumstances did Romanians swap their "si" for "da", without also adopting "nyet"? |
| Posted by: guina January 03, 2008 07:32 pm |
| Hi, The afirmative "Da" comes, in both russian and romanian from the Keltic "Ta".It is still in use in some parts of Wales. |
| Posted by: virg January 04, 2008 04:24 am |
| Thank you guina, that'll work. Reminds be that 'tara' is Irsh for 'land', too. Another one for you. People in the village of Danes have no idea of the origin of that name. And they are generaly too dark-complected for Danes. Any idea? |
| Posted by: guina January 04, 2008 10:21 am |
| Sorry,nope ! |
| Posted by: guina January 04, 2008 10:25 am |
| By the way,as Im sure you know," tara" comes from latin " tera" Cheers |
| Posted by: guina January 04, 2008 10:34 am |
| And by the way,another legacy we got from the the kelts (celti )is the name Rodica,Roderika in original,also stil in use in UK |
| Posted by: 21 inf January 04, 2008 03:05 pm |
| What is your scientific explanation for this comparison Rodica = Roderika? Can you state the root of the names Roderika and Rodica and explain the transformation in now romanian Rodica? Any proof based analisys of linguistic terms are analised like this and it is prooved that some words sounding slavic are in fact romanians (or proto-romanians) and viceversa, to give only a single example. So, I'd like to see the explanation between Roderika = Rodica and who influenced who's language. Proofs and sources please. The only comparative analisys between (proto)romanian and other languages is made by academician Marius Sala and published in the book named : "From latin to romanian". Is this your source? |
| Posted by: guina January 04, 2008 06:08 pm |
| Just chek "Dictionar Etimologic " Funy one.Do you know from wher the Romm term " mishto" comes? Take care! |
| Posted by: 21 inf January 04, 2008 07:24 pm |
| It was apreciable to cite the source before, in the posting refering at the subject. It is still not clear for the foreign reader of the subject the common origin of those 2 names. Non-romanian readers can't read "Dictionar etimologic". Take care! |
| Posted by: Dénes January 04, 2008 07:25 pm | ||
Mit Stock? I.e., German for, 'with [walking] stick'? Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: guina January 04, 2008 09:44 pm |
| Bulls eye,general! |
| Posted by: Radub March 01, 2008 10:50 pm |
| The name Rodica is the female version of the name Radu. Radu is slavic for "joy". Radu is a very popular name in Eastern Europe where it appears in many forms such as Radek, Radko, Radovan, Radomir, Rodion, etc. In its female version, Rodica also appears as Rada, Radanka, Radovanka, Radmila. ... Radu... |
| Posted by: C-2 March 01, 2008 11:06 pm |
| I red years ago,that a Walachian legion,was sent by the Romans to Britain. Aparently they satteled there after the military service. The name Welch comes from Walachia. |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 02, 2008 01:04 am | ||
It is possible that in this wallachian legion were also dacians. It could explain some names in the area . One very known is Brinzan ( modeller contest winner in UK and Ireland  ). The name derivated from dacian word Brinza (cheese)  |
| Posted by: C-2 March 02, 2008 07:40 am |
| Who is that Branzan guy? |
| Posted by: Dénes March 02, 2008 07:59 am | ||
That may very well be; however, are you sure Brinza is of Dacian origin? I am asking this because the Slovaks have the European right to this brand of white cheese, called Bryndza... Let's ask our specialist, radub. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Radub March 02, 2008 08:45 am | ||
Oh no, you are wrong! It is a Polish word! The Polish got PDO protection under EU law for the word "bryndza" and the white cheese as a Polish product and they are trying to forbid anyone in the world from using the word "brinza" in association with any type of cheese coming from anywhere else otherthan Poland. (it's a bit like "Ogarul Ardelenesc"  ) The word "brinza" is instantly recognisable across the entire Eastern Europe. Years ago, when I was a "field translator" and had to attend conferences, I used to spend a lot of time with translators from all over Europe, Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Serbs, Bosnians, Greeks, you name it. Every time I introduced myself, they used to say "Brinzan? Is that like the cheese?" It's a good name. Better than Popescu or Ionescu. Hard to confuse me with some one else. Radu |
| Posted by: C-2 March 02, 2008 08:52 am |
| In the Sardinian dialect,the word for cheese is also branza. |
| Posted by: 21 inf March 02, 2008 09:38 am |
| For searching the origin of diferent words in romanian language I recomend the book of academician Marius Sala: From latin to romanian. Consulting only the DEX or other dictionaries is not relevant for the way a word entered in a language. Did one know that some words entered from in romanian directly from latin, others from latin by albanian, others were "borowed again" after a use straight from latin in romanian by french or italian "filiera". Without knowing the way a word was adopted from latin or other languages it is hazardous to tell that a certain words are coming from a certain language. In this way, there are some words in romanian that are at first sight borrowed from slavic language, but few know that initially the word was actually used in protoromanian, adopted by slavs and finally romanians borrowed from slav language in a way "slavised". Probably that's why in some many eastern languages a word has a so common presence, as "branza". |
| Posted by: Radub March 02, 2008 10:05 am | ||
"Brinza" is not a good yardstick to measure etymology. That cheese is the product of sheep farming, and a significant aspect of sheep farming is the seasonal movement of animals - "transhumanta". Sheep are continuously moved in search for better grazing grounds. Hundreds of years ago, at a time when borders were less strict than they are now, when movement across the land was much more open, people moved from one place to another with ease. When people moved, they took their words/cultures with them and shared it. The notions of "nation" and "country" as closed cohesive entities that could not be breached without permissions/visas/passports are very new things, a creation of the 20th century. In the past, people could move with much more ease. Radu |
| Posted by: 21 inf March 02, 2008 10:36 am |
| Yes, Radu, you are right. It was not my best example to cite "branza", I did it only because it was mentioned previously. I just wanted to generaly present the way of how some words can be adopted from a language or another. It is too common, and sometimes wrong, when people easily say: "This word is coming from this language". Actually, the "path" of words it is not so simple, some of them have a rather complex "path" until adoption in a certain language and sometimes this "path" remains still unclear. B. |
| Posted by: Radub March 02, 2008 10:48 am |
| Exactly! That was why I still think that it is ridiculous that the Poles claim the word "Bryndza" as their own. Radu |
| Posted by: Cantacuzino March 02, 2008 04:20 pm | ||||
I'm not sure but it was on the list with possible dacian origin words like: Barză, stâna, căciulă, vatră, brânză, varză, viezure, zer, mânz Probably because of the letter "Z" very common in dacian language ( the name of famous dacian god is Zamolxe).
Ionescu, Popescu, Ceausescu, Iliescu, Constantinescu, Basescu etc was an art nouveau adaptation for old romanian names like Ion, Popa,Ceausu,Ilie, Constantin, Base . It was trendy (bon ton ) in 1848-1930 for politiciansIf you change the name to Branzescu you could run for presidential election in Romania. All the modellers will vote you |
| Posted by: Radub March 02, 2008 06:33 pm |
| The Romanian "escu" added at the end of the name is related to to the Slavic "eski" or "escov". On the other hand, names that end in "eanu", "anu", or "an" have deeper roots in Romanian / Proto-Romanian (Aroman) languages. This includes names such as Munteanu/Muntean, Morosanu, Sadoveanu, Balaceanu, Visan, Prodan, Tismaneanu, Dragan, Codreanu, Brinzan, etc. That is used widely when idicating that someone hails from or belongs to somewhere or something such as for example Bucurestean, Brasovean, cioban, ostean, mirean, Lipovan, Moldovan, Musulman, African and so on. Radu |
| Posted by: Kosmo March 06, 2008 07:33 am |
| Teleme it's the cheese of Macedonia and the favorite type of "branza" in Romania. Cioban it's used by romanians and bulgarians to express the ancient job of sheepard but it comes from turkish. These things are to complicated to be relied on. When one says "ciobanu a adus branza telemea" he uses concepts familiar on an extended geographic area. |
| Posted by: virg March 08, 2008 04:53 pm |
| Can someone please explain the surname "Tomuta"? |
| Posted by: chisi March 09, 2008 06:05 pm |
| Toma+ uta =Tomuta Little Toma maybe. |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu March 30, 2008 08:50 am | ||
Hello C2, It was a dacian auxiliary troops, and not a legion. Dacians (or the people of Dacia's province) never formed legions under the Roman Empire. If i remember well, they were deployed near the Hadrian's wall. N. Djuvara has an interesting explanation about the walachs. It seems that a celtic people, the walchs, that lived in the nowdays territory of Switzerland, became vassals of the Romans. Since then, the german and other celtic peoples called all the celts beeing allies with the romans walchs. Today we can find some approaches in two land names : WALES and WALLONIA (french speaking -- wallonian belgians). To see more: "Istoria romanilor povestita celor tineri" Humanitas. BM |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu March 30, 2008 08:57 am | ||
But there are some old Romanian families that ends with -escu. Bibescu, Vacarescu, Miclescu etc. BM |
| Posted by: chisi March 30, 2008 09:46 am |
| The termination "escu" confirms that the "owner" of the name belongs to a clan / neam. Popescu - Popa clan/neam Ionescu / Ion clan/ neam See also Ionestii, Popestii, etc. "The clan of..." |
| Posted by: cainele_franctiror March 30, 2008 08:08 pm |
| misto is a gipsy word |
| Posted by: 21 inf March 31, 2008 02:20 am | ||
German tribes named all roman (romanised) populations as "wallach", with all derivates: wlach, wolloch and so on. "Wallach" ment initially "romanic speaking people". Finally, romanian population retained the name "valach", "voloh". It is significant that the name "valach" given to romanians was given by a foreign population, because romanian never called themselves "valah(s)". Instead, they called themselved "rumanian", "romanian" when speaking about themselves. N. Djuvara is trying to offer an alternative romanian history, forcing a little bit the origins of romanians as being descendents of pecenegs and/or cumans, which is not sustained with arguments, since the last 2 populations are turcic populations. Pecenegs and cumans lived in the todays teritory of Romania for some centuries side by side with romanians, until XIIIth century. To cite at least one source for lingvistic arguments: academician Marius Sala, Bucharest University. |
| Posted by: sid guttridge March 31, 2008 12:46 pm |
| Hi Guys, There is no plausible lineal descent between "Wallach" and "Welsh". "Welsh" is what the English call the people of Wales. They call themselves something like "Cymri". (That needs double checking). There were Dacian units in Roman Britain, but they are4 last recorded a good century before the English arrived. I don't think the "Noticia Dignitatum" is likely to mention either Welsh or Wallachians because the Lartin language had no W. Cheers, Sid. |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu March 31, 2008 04:42 pm | ||
Well, N Djuvara doesn't say that today's Romanian people is directly descendent from the cumans. He is just saying that we don't have to subestimate (as Romanian history does today) the important role that they had before the "birth" of Wallachia and Moldavia. His arguments are quite credible, even if i do not know Mr Sala's theory. BM |
| Posted by: Kepi March 31, 2008 05:01 pm | ||
Concerning the origin of Wallachian/Wallonian/Welsh... names, an interesting theory could be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_term_Vlach I think most probably it was a germanic/slav designation for people who spoke a kind of latin language.  |
| Posted by: Bernard Miclescu April 01, 2008 01:05 pm |
| A friend of mine found these dacian troops in the Roman Empire. No legions... under Traian (Trajan in French): "Ala I Ulpia Dacorum/Cappadocia" and "Cohors I Ulpia Dacorum/Syria" under Hadrian: "Cohors I Aelia Dacorum/Brittania" under Marcus Aurelius: "Cohors II Aurelia Dacorum"/ ??? Trere is also the "Cohors II Augusta Dacorum", probably a second "cohors" under Hadrian; under Septimus Severus: "Cohors Gemina Dacorum milliaria" in Moesia Inferior/Montana. In the early Byzantin period an irregular Dacian corp -- "numerus", can be found in Syria. BM |
| Posted by: mele22 April 08, 2008 09:45 pm |
| Mr. BM, there certainly were even more troops in the Roman army that wore such names, but you must know that it didn't always mean they were ethnic Dacians. Many army corps were named that way in honour of their victories, or simply for having been mobilized in a certain province for a long time. We should also keep in mind that Dacia was one of the most heavily militarized Roman provinces, and violence was far from over after Trajan's Dacian wars (Dacia also had the longest border with the barbarians in Europe). All in all, history is a very versatile science, especially ancient history, always exposed to multiple interpretations (not excluding misinterpretations). |
| Posted by: Kosmo April 09, 2008 10:53 am |
| Djuvara does NOT claim cumanian origins for romanians, but for many among the boyar elite at the times of the founding of the 2 states including for the Basarab family. Roman legions were made from roman citizens so they could not have tribal names. This were only for auxilliaries and generally reflected the area of recruitment. Still, a soldier recruited in Dacia could be a non-citizen colonist. For the later empire the term dacian refered to the Dacia provinces south of Danube established by Aurelian. |
| Posted by: Ruy Aballe April 18, 2008 06:17 pm |
| Just a small correction: in Portugal, "yes" and "no" are "sim" and "não", i.e. similar but not identical to "si" and "no" in Spanish (Castillian) and Italian. |
| Posted by: virg June 02, 2008 10:29 pm |
| How do we account for the unusual accents and sounds in the French language. Is there anything else like it? |
| Posted by: Amicus_Plato January 09, 2011 01:24 pm | ||||
There is no Latin word in Romanian taken from Albanian (and the situation would be meaningless in itself), on the contrary there are Latin words in Albanian taken from Romanian. The Latin words in Romanian are either inherited (not "borrowed") from Vulgar Latin or borrowed (especially in the XIXth century) from Classic Latin or from Romance languages (French, and in a lesser degree Italian).
"Brânza" is one of the words related to a pastoral tradition which predates both Latin and Slavic as spoken languages in the area. It is almost impossible to identify their source (language of origin), as our knowledge is very limited in this regard. The fact that the old Romanian name was "brândza", with "dz" which originates from "d" (as in many other cases), makes me to think that the Slavic languages took it from Romanian. |
| Posted by: Amicus_Plato January 09, 2011 01:38 pm | ||
I completely agree. It referred to people from Dacia Mediterranea or Dacia Ripensis. On the other hand "Dacian" meant in those times the place of origin (i.e. from Dacia), not a certain ethnicity. |
| Posted by: chisi February 22, 2011 07:22 pm |
| Hey, we, romanians, have a lot of words of slavic and albanian origin, we like it or not. And "da" comes from slavic in the first time, not from celts. |
| Posted by: Florin February 24, 2011 03:46 am |
| When I was in primary school and high school, I could witness in the language the expression "I-a mardit una" / "I-am mardit una", which can be translated only by its meaning. It meant "He kicked one hit in his jaw / head" / "I kicked one hit in his jaw / head". Many years later, after using Internet in the U.S., I learned about the German self propelled gun "Marder", which was issued to the Romanian Army as well. The verb "a mardi" or "a mardit" cannot be found in a Romanian dictionary (maybe only in "Dictionar de argou", published before 1989; also, I may be wrong with this title). I guess its usage started after the Romanian soldiers witnessed the "Marder" in action. |
| Posted by: Radub February 24, 2011 10:28 pm | ||
http://dexonline.ro/definitie/mardi HTH Radu |
| Posted by: guina February 24, 2011 10:34 pm |
| so the germans were inspired by rromas. |
| Posted by: Victor February 26, 2011 08:36 am | ||
The Marder was never in use with the Romanian Army. |
| Posted by: Radub February 26, 2011 11:53 am |
| There are plenty of other examples of German words used in Romanian that can be traced to warfare equipment http://dexonline.ro/definitie/brand "Brand" = punch / Brand = Mortar http://dexonline.ro/definitie/doxă "Doxa" = precise knowledge / "Doxa" = precise mechanism http://dexonline.ro/definitie/tais "Tzais" = formidable / "Zeiss" = lenses http://dexonline.ro/definitie/crup "Crup" = cannon drunk / "Krupp" = cannon There may be more. But "mardeala" is not German. And neither is "mishto".  Radu |
| Posted by: IoanTM January 05, 2012 01:54 pm | ||
Hmmm ... why are you so sure about this ? |
| Posted by: Radub January 05, 2012 02:03 pm | ||||
Because I have German friends whodk not know what "misto" means or what the connection may be with German. Radu |
| Posted by: IoanTM January 05, 2012 02:21 pm | ||||||
Hmmm ... not necessary a correct argument - because the romanian language "adapted" the german words "mit stock". |
| Posted by: Radub January 05, 2012 02:52 pm |
| It is exactly the right argument. I know the "myth" and I asked them if "with stick" was ever a by-word for "good"/"nice" and they said no - to keep in with the "myth" the correct term is "mit Wanderstab". DEX states that "misto" is of Gypsy origin. Radu |
| Posted by: IoanTM January 05, 2012 02:59 pm | ||
OK - the version of the myth which I know is that going to walk with a "simple" stick was somehow ... common and usual but to have a "walking-stick with ( silver ) upper-part" was ... something really "cool".  And AFAIK "mit stock" means something like this ... And BTW - I'm not sure at all that "misto" is a "true&original" gypsy word or one borrowed from them from romanian language as well - for example the following online resource doesn't mention it and indicate another word for "good" : http://www.larp.com/jahavra/language.html |
| Posted by: Radub January 05, 2012 03:24 pm |
| I trust DEX. As I told you, I know the "myth" and the word for that kind of "nice" walking stick is not "Stock" but "Wanderstab" or "Spazierstock". Radu |
| Posted by: IoanTM January 05, 2012 06:40 pm | ||||
Well ... at this aspect ( possible borrows from gypsy language ) I don't trust DEX. And as long as there is debatable if this word is "genuine gypsy" one I'm even more in doubt about this.
The second version still keep a possible link. Anyway ... this is generally speaking irrelevant. Best regards. |
| Posted by: Radub January 05, 2012 10:27 pm |
| Well, the DEX is the "standard" for Romanian language. http://dexonline.ro/definitie/mișto Radu |
| Posted by: cipiamon May 12, 2012 10:38 am |
| As i heard it, in the beginning of the century it was a new fashion trend, from the german fashion houses in Bucharest, you are bad-ass gentleman if you have a "stock", also it was the eternal dogs problem. Great gadget. The DEX needs to revised all the time... |