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WorldWar2.ro Forum > The post-WW2 and recent military > Soko J-22 Orao broke the sound barrier

Posted by: Iamandi January 14, 2008 09:00 am

At this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soko_J-22_Orao i found this:

"On November 22, 1984, Orao 25101 piloted by test pilot Marjan Jelen broke the sound barrier in a shallow dive over Batajnica Air Base, becoming the first Yugoslav-designed aircraft to exceed Mach 1. The aircraft is, however incapable of breaking the sound barrier in level flight."

You cand find a picture with this aircraft on the right side of the praragraph.

My question is - did romanian IAR-93 broke the sound barrier?

Thank you,

Iama

Posted by: lancer_two_one January 15, 2008 02:51 am

Iama,

The answer is No.

It may have been possible for Orao though. At the time when it is claimed in Wikipedia that Orao's supersonic flight happened, Orao and IAR-93 were only looking the same, but were otherwise different structurally. Around 1980 a sort of divorce happened between the development concepts in the two countries. The work continued based on joint efforts, but instead of a common SS and common TS, there were four different aircraft produced: the Ro SS, Ro TS, Yu SS, Yu TS.

Contrary to what I often found to be an outsider's opinion, IAR-93 was not the most popular (i.e. loved and trusted) aircraft in RoAF. As wikipedia as well mentiones, both countries lost planes due to flutter early in the Program. In few words, at least for RoAF this was a show stopper, and no one was too eager to get to close to the corners of the envelope.

Finally, a word of caution about taking wikipedia too serious. Without picking on it, I would recommend not to take it as a reference. Even in the article to which your link leads, there are inaccuracies. One such example is: "The Yugoslav prototype 25002 made its first flight on November 1976". In reality, the first flight of each country's prototype happened in 1974.

Sorin

Posted by: Dénes January 15, 2008 06:22 am

QUOTE (lancer_two_one @ January 15, 2008 08:51 am)

Finally, a word of caution about taking wikipedia too serious. Without picking on it, I would recommend not to take it as a reference.

I second that. I saw many errors in various articles posted by various individuals. Despite this obvious shortcoming, it's a great project for general information.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: lancer21 March 31, 2012 09:41 pm

Hi everyone.

I've looked on the forum trying to find the most recent topic on IAR-93 and this seems to be it. I have a question if i may.

Remember the good old TOP GUN magazine article about IAR-93 , long , long time ago , must be 1998 or 1999 (or was it 2000?) , in one of the first issues?

Well , in that article there was among other things , the description of a proposed upgrade programe for the IAR-93. I think they were mentioning there canards ( like No. 600?), wingtip missile rails aswell i think , even FBW, radar in the nose , etc etc.

There was also mention about uprated engines , i cannot recall if the article said clearly Viper-680, but the thrust in both maximum without AB and afterburner was mentioned . I know the AB thrust must be in the 50 KN range (combined for both engines), but i don't remember the exact figures.

I would really apreciate if someone who has acces to the TOP GUN collection wishes to look through them for that IAR-93 article , and if possible post a bit more info about that upgrade , and especially the upgraded engine thrust ( in military power and AB) please.

Thank you very much.

Posted by: Hadrian April 01, 2012 12:53 pm

Hello, it is the Top Gun nr. 3, december 1998.
The proposed modifications were:

-modification of the forward part in order to include radar, fixed canards, wingtip AA missile rails, structure rigidity increase, fuselage integrated stairs.

-hidraulic modifications, Fly by wire, HOTAS.

-central fuel tank increased to 800-1000l, ensuring 4h28 min endurance and 2496 km range

-NAVGPS, VOR/DME, ILS, ADF, EFIS, flight recorder, HUD.

-MFD, videocamera, laser rangefinder, HUD (with 4 modes NAV, AA, AS, INT (simulates air target) with CCIP, RWR, chaff/flare dispenser, new 1000daN internal pilon, SEBAV mine dispenser, laser designator receiver for 250/500/1000 daN bombs (so a smart bomb kit)

-Viper 680 engines, cumulated thrust 40.2 kN dry, 52.4 kN with afterburner.

No other characteristics were given (new weight, speed etc)

Would have been quite impresive, and because of the airframe hours would have outlasted the Lancers

Posted by: lancer21 April 01, 2012 02:39 pm

Many thanks for your help Hadrian , this is exactly what i was looking for!

Well the reason i've remembered about this , is that mr. Antoniu posted a topic on cartula.ro , about a new IAR-99 derivative , called IAR-99XT . This among other things , is suposed to have wingtip rails , Viper-680 engine and a radar in the nose.

http://www.cartula.ro/forum/topic/9760-iar-99xt/

Wether it will become reality who knows . IAR-93 would have been far more useful for such an upgrade than IAR-99 though (of course, if the useless bureaucrats in our lovely country wouldn't just have send them to scrap , like the MiG-29s etc.)

Mind flying even further , imagine if several prototypes of the IAR-95 would have been made in the 80s and early 90s , and then we would have teamed with the israelis like for Lancer . Jesus an IAR-95 with Elta radar and Pythons and Derbys! FC-1 , but ten years before. Just imagine ...

Alas the reality is so much more sad ...

I apologize for digressing.

Posted by: Hadrian April 01, 2012 07:32 pm

That IAR-99XT looks great. Hopefully it will happen.
There was also in one Top Gun from 2000 period something similar, a light strike version, but without radar. It seems it is thought from a long time.