Soldiers are soldiers - doesn't matter what country they're from. I applaud the Romanians in the Afghan theatre as they don't have to be there. I don't have that choice...Never mind!!!!!As I said earlier - I applaud the soldiers in Afghanistan.
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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > The post-WW2 and recent military > Interesting article about Romanian Army in Afghanistan... |
| Posted by: PanzerKing August 27, 2004 02:50 am |
| It's old news, but new to me! Maybe you will like it.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Barracks/5297/news/carplightning.html |
| Posted by: Florin September 03, 2004 01:22 am |
| Interesting... Souls far away from home, like their American partners.
Whoever was the ally due to politics or necessities, in the last 130 years, the Romanian soldier did his best to don't fail expectations. |
| Posted by: Dani September 09, 2004 11:40 am |
| It would be great if different Romanian battalions abroad could build up their web-sites with stories and galleries! |
| Posted by: Victor September 09, 2004 01:45 pm |
| Well some while ago the http://www.redscorpions.net and http://www.carpathianhawks.net were operational and had tons of pkotos. I see they had been erased after the mission in Afghanistan ended. |
| Posted by: Dani September 09, 2004 02:14 pm |
| Yeah, I know about these web-sites. Could they make a site like those belonging to US units? with history of the unit and so on? |
| Posted by: Iamandi September 09, 2004 02:24 pm |
| And who is the team or man for designing them? These 2 past sites are an important measure, but are isolated... Our PR is not like occidental ones.
A fiend - a gendarme, come to me with a cd after a course at Gheorghieni. Some presentation, in Power Point. "Look what we have, you see?" "Waw!" :roll: Verry important thing... But, maybe in future a new look may came. Iama |
| Posted by: Carol I September 09, 2004 05:53 pm | ||
http://www.mapn.ro/irak/en/index.htm |
| Posted by: Florin September 09, 2004 07:02 pm | ||
I bet they have something else to worry about right now. The Army looks better from outside, than from inside. If you did some military service, you'll understand. |
| Posted by: Victor September 09, 2004 07:27 pm |
| These troops have nothing to do with the army you know. They are professionals, not recruits. |
| Posted by: Dani September 10, 2004 07:23 am |
| Some pictures from operation "Enduring Freedom" in Afghanistan:
http://www.presamil.ro/Arhiva%20foto/Enduring%20Freedom.htm Also some pictures from operation "Iraqi Freedom": http://www.presamil.ro/Arhiva%20foto/Iraqi%20Freedom.htm |
| Posted by: Radu October 03, 2004 02:44 am |
| Here's the motherload of pictures http://www.mapn.ro/irak/galerie/Afganistan/index.htm |
| Posted by: olderM1 October 07, 2004 12:10 am |
| Soldiers are soldiers - doesn't matter what country they're from. I applaud the Romanians in the Afghan theatre as they don't have to be there. I don't have that choice...Never mind!!!!! As I said earlier - I applaud the soldiers in Afghanistan. |
| Posted by: Dani October 07, 2004 06:58 am |
| We should also applaud the soldiers in Iraq together with soldiers in Afghanistan. |
| Posted by: mabadesc October 08, 2004 12:06 am | ||
Yes indeed we should. |
| Posted by: Victor October 14, 2004 01:10 pm |
| At the end of March 2004, a Romanian-American patrol uncovered 1 km north of Kandahar a weapons cache in a textile factory, containing 2,000 assault rifles, 185 82 mm mortars, 36 AG-7 RPGs, 200 crates with 7.62 mm ammo and 10 crates of AG-7 ammo. |
| Posted by: Victor December 26, 2004 10:18 am |
| At the end of November 2004 a patrol of the 281st Battalion has discovered an ammo dump consisting of 1,000 7.92 mm, 14.5 mm and 12.7 mm rounds, 20 82 mm mortar shells and two artillery shells. On 2 December 2004, the same battalion found another stash, which contained one 100 mm howitzer, 3 recoilless rifles, 91 100 mm mortars, two 82 mm mortars, four RPGs, two 12.7 mm MGs, nine assault rifles and ammo. The 300th Infantry Battalion from Galati is due to replace the 281st near Kandahar this month. |
| Posted by: Dénes April 24, 2005 07:13 pm |
| Duna TV just announced that a Rumanian soldier was killed and two others were severely wounded when their AFV rolled over a mine close to Khandahar, in Afghanistan. May he rest in peace... Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Imperialist April 25, 2005 08:06 am | ||
Yes, it seems it was an IED. The soldier killed was 26. |
| Posted by: cnflyboy2000 April 25, 2005 02:01 pm | ||
Who? These?; "the 26th Light Infantry "Neagoe Basarab" Battalion, nicknamed by the Americans "the Red Scorpions", after the name of a Soviet anti-SEAL special forces unit, has been stationed there. Recently, they have been rotated with the 812th Light Infantry "Carpathians' Hawks" Battalion, of the 81st Mechanized Brigade from Bistrita." Can you elaborate? Do you mean professionals in the sense they are volunteers, not "draftees"? What exactly is the Romanian system for military service anyway, ? My understanding was that there is a "draft", for two years of compulsory service for all males of a certain age. Is this not correct? |
| Posted by: Imperialist April 25, 2005 03:12 pm | ||||
The draft is officially still on, however, the period you mentioned is no longer correct. The compulsory service is down to 4-6 months of service. The soldiers who went to Afghanistan and Irak signed special contracts for this, they were volunteers for these particular missions. take care |
| Posted by: Victor April 25, 2005 06:50 pm | ||
The draft was one year and presently I believe it has been reduced to 8 months. Those that have graduated with a university decree have a reduced term of half that period (6 months initially and now 4 months). The service is longer in the Navy though. There are however many hired NCOs and soldiers, who usually man the active units, not the territorial ones. All the troops serving abroad are hired soldiers, not drafted, and they volunteer to leave. It pays relatively well. |
| Posted by: cnflyboy2000 April 28, 2005 02:56 am | ||||
But they are all Romanian citizens, correct? Are the draftees not paid,while the volunteers are? Also, would a draftee never be sent into a combat zone? To me the term "hired soldiers" makes it sound like they are mercenaries. I mean, the U.S. military is 100% voluntary, and the soldiers/sailors/airmen are paid better than formerly, and certainly it's an opportunity for many, but no one ever refers to them as "hired". It's presumed, rightly or no, that they are in "service" to their country, even though they draw pay. Is there a distinction made in Romania? I'm curious. Do people view professional military as simply a job, or is there, as here, an assumption of a more noble calling; a willingness to make the supreme sacrifice for "duty, honor, country". Do Romanians respect their military people, in general? |
| Posted by: Alexandru H. April 28, 2005 03:26 am |
| Well, to be drafted in the army nowadays with a college diploma means you have to go to the minister and ask for his approval (true case). |
| Posted by: Imperialist April 28, 2005 04:08 am | ||
No. |
| Posted by: Victor April 28, 2005 05:04 am | ||||
Then how do you explain the fact that in terms of popular trust, the Army is the second institution in the polls after the Romanian Orthodox Church, somewhere well above the Government, the Parliament, the Justrice system or the Police? I would say that many do respect the military. Some while ago, with the 26th was in Afghanistan, it had a website, where there pages of messages left by Romanians for the soldiers, mostly messages of appreciation. I used the term "hired", because this is the official term: "militari angajati pe baza de contract". It may sound in English as mercenary, but it is probably because of the differences in the languages. They considered proffessionals and they proved this in the missions they took part abroad, where they seem to have been much appreciated. It also offers a career opportunity to some people that are drawn towards this kind of job, the effort and dedication it requires. Clearly the majority of the draftees lack these qualities. |
| Posted by: 88mm April 28, 2005 06:53 am | ||||
Trust in what sense? The B.O.R. and the army are just Kings in the land of the blinds. The question is
and not about do they respect or trust the Army institution. And don't say that this institution it's made by it's man, most people won't make much of a diference. And those messages to the Romanian soldiers in Afganistan has nothing to do with the trust in the army. |
| Posted by: Imperialist April 28, 2005 09:22 am | ||
Thats a BS answer in those polls.. Ask some guys about the military service and if they want to do it. The term could very well be reduced to 1 month and they'll still run like hell. Even the guys that did serve that term advise others to avoid it. Also, these days, do you know what the word in the military "street" is? The word is that that poor guy that died in Afghanistan died not because his TAB was destroyed by that IED but because he was bootlegging gasoline, and he was carrying it in the TAB. The explosion of the IED ignited the gasoline the guys wanted to sell on the black market. And thats what military people say. Respect for the military? I think thats puny in Romania when it has to do with somthing else but big empty words. |
| Posted by: udar April 28, 2005 02:53 pm |
| The military institution have a verry ancient roots in romanian society,and,beggining with dacians,all the mens was not mens enough if dont was in the army(or dont was a fighter).The stories about how bad is to be in army,make some peoples to try to avoid to be recruted,but,the polls reveale that peoples(especially peoples who was in army) have trust in this institution,only who garantee the defence of the country. |
| Posted by: C-2 July 21, 2005 05:57 pm |
| Look what our brave soldiers are doing in Irak! And they are getting pay for this . From our money! |
| Posted by: Victor July 21, 2005 06:20 pm |
| Sorry to disappoint you C-2, but the soldier in the photo is American according to the uniform. Also, how would an Afghan kid know the latin alphabet and the LOL symbol for messenger ":))" ? It's probablya computer edited image by some guy who thought it would be funny. The image has been edited by me in order to remove obscene words. |
| Posted by: C-2 July 21, 2005 06:43 pm |
| I wrote Irak. Not Afganistan! Didn't wanted to open a new thread. The Roman. soldiers wear the same uniform as the Americans... |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 21, 2005 06:50 pm | ||
Yeah, I agree with C-2, I dont think thats an american soldier. The american kevlar is not of that camouflage colour in Iraq and is longer, covering the groins also. They also have "knee pads" (genunchiere). Maybe the american members of the forum can give us their insight. |
| Posted by: Victor July 22, 2005 04:36 am | ||
No, Romanian soldiers have uniforms similar to those of the British army, which are very different from the US ones. Furthermore, that is not a Romanian kevlar vest. |
| Posted by: dragos July 22, 2005 06:46 am |
| The image is faked, as the center of the cardboard was edited to imprint the new text. Note that the horizontal pleats of the cardboard, visible at the left and right edges, are lost towards the center, which is blured. Quite easy to do in Photoshop. |
| Posted by: Iamandi July 22, 2005 06:59 am |
I bet: can be look better even if i do that thing in paintbrush  .Iama |
| Posted by: Victor July 22, 2005 07:46 am |
Soldier of the 300th Infantry Battalion Sfantul Andrei during a convoy escort in Afghanistan. This unit just ended its deployment and returned to Romania, being replaced by the 151st Infantry Battalion, which is poresently on its second tour in Afghanistan. Source: Observatorul Militar no. 25/2005 For those errounousely stating that the soldier with two kids is Romanian, take a good look at the above photo and notice the more than obvious differences in the uniform and kevlar vest. |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 22, 2005 08:06 am | ||
That soldier is completely exposed on that TAB. p.s. C-2 should tell us where he found that picture, maybe that would shed some light besides the kevlar issue. |
| Posted by: C-2 July 22, 2005 08:59 am |
| I sure hope it's a faik! I'll let you know tomorow more. I got from a friend via E mail... |
| Posted by: Jeff_S July 22, 2005 05:58 pm | ||
It does not look like an American soldier to me. It's possible that American troops in Iraq would use woodland pattern vests, so that by itself is not a disqualifier. In the build-up for the Iraq invasion, soldiers could not deploy without a modern vest, and there were not enough of them, so they used what they had. But that is not an American vest, or at least not a style I have ever seen. As Imperialist noted, the American vest is longer. It also has a higher collar, the shoulder is different, and the flap in the center over the fasteners is different. I'm not even sure of the camouflage pattern -- the colors could be American, but the pattern does not look quite right. The blocks of color seem a little too large to me. Many countries use copies or near-copies of the American pattern. |
| Posted by: Victor July 22, 2005 06:32 pm |
| The identity of the soldier in the photo isn't that important, after the initial claim that he is Romanian was proved wrong. As for US soldiers wearing vests with forest camouflage, here are some photos:  Source: http://www.br-online.de  Source: http://www.freace.de  Source: http://www.tu.no |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 22, 2005 07:04 pm | ||
It was proved wrong? Already? Wow, that was fast. Neeext... |
| Posted by: Victor July 23, 2005 06:27 am |
| Well, I didn't see any proof brought forward that somehow Romanian troops aren't wearing their regulamentary uniforms and dress in what appears to be a US one, with a strange kevlar vest. If you have such evidence, by all means, bring it forward, otherwise such comments are void. For those whi still have doubts about Romanian desert camouflage uniforms, here is a photo of soldiers of the 281st Battalion in Afghanistan, together with US soldiers. The differences are more than obvious. Source: Observatorul Militar |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 23, 2005 01:53 pm | ||
All I wanted to say was that C-2 was still supposed to give the source for that photo, a source which could have clarified the issue. It just seemed too quick for the issue to be proven wrong. Personal opinion. But the romanians also wore green kevlars similar to the US ones at the start of the deployment when there was that problem with inadequate camouflage. I remember some newspapers wrote about it. "we sent soldiers camouflaged for dense vegetation in the desert" or something like that. The source of the photo and the time it was taken could further clarify the issue. take care |
| Posted by: Victor July 23, 2005 03:55 pm |
| I fail to comprehend what was left to clarify. He didn't provide any proof that the respective soldier is Romanian, except that Romanians have uniforms similar to the US ones. That argument was proven false beyond any reasonable doubt. The differences between the US camo and the British (Romanian) one are more than obvious. The same for the kevlar vests. You mentioned the 26th Battalion being sent initially to Afghanistan with model 1990 and 1994 forest camo. Here is a photo, in case you still have doubts. Source: the former redscorpions.net website, which doesn't exist anymore. |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 23, 2005 06:13 pm | ||
Here are some similarities and differences: [note - the 3rd picture is that of an US soldier]    In my opinion we lack enough info about the picture to say anything without reasonable doubt. |
| Posted by: dragos July 23, 2005 06:59 pm |
| Why such a fuss for that picture? Even if he was a Romanian, the picture was obviously fake. |
| Posted by: Victor July 23, 2005 07:36 pm | ||
You must be joking, right?  Please answer the following questions: 1. Is it not clear to you that the soldier in the initial photo is not wearing a Romanian uniform? 2. Is it not clear to you that he is not wearing a Romanian vest? 3. Is it not clear to you that even if he was to wear the older Romanian kevlar vest (although I have not seen one photo so far with Romanians in the new uniforms with vests that aren't also in desert camo), those older vests are different from the one that soldier is wearing? |
| Posted by: C-2 July 23, 2005 07:56 pm |
| The picture was recieved by a friend of mine from a guy who has a advertising company. The friend who sent it to wasn't aware that I "deal" with militaria stuff.He was upset and that's all. |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 23, 2005 08:00 pm | ||||
Judging by the photos at hand (and please note my own comparison), NO, it is not clear. I dont see how things are so perfectly clear so early for you. Maybe I am wrong, but there are 2 different romanian uniform types in Afghanistan, how can that be a reference point for those in Irak? There could be 2 different ones in Irak too. Also note that the weapon's holding band that crosses the kevlar. In 2 photos they are similar. One from Afghanistan (romanian) and one from Irak (the incriminated picture). Compared with the picture of a US soldiers' m16 band which is black and less thick, they see to point out to a common romanian origin. But like I said, there is too little info to tell something without reasonable doubt. I'm just surprised you can do that despite the discrepancies. |
| Posted by: Victor July 24, 2005 05:46 am | ||||||||
| I see you haven't actually bothered to answer my questions. I have put forward 3 questions, you said no. No to which? All of them? I know I have glasses, but you don't need a perfect vision to see that the soldier in that photo isn't wearing the Romanian model 2002 uniform. Probably only your prejudice regarding Irak stops you from seeing it.
The feeling is mutual.
You are wrong. There aren't two different uniform types in Afghanistan. It is only one. During their first tour in Afghanistan, the 26th Battalion was sent in with the regular 1990 and 1994 forest camo uniforms, but during their mission there, the Romanian army adopted the new model 2002 uniform, identical to the British camo. The British uniforms were manufactured in Romania, so they could be produced here easily, and it is a very practical uniform. Inside the country, there are still model 1990 and 1994 camo uniforms worn in units. The conversion to the new ones isn't over yet. The professional soldiers going in missions outside Romania, all wear the model 2002 uniforms, especially those in Irak and Afghanistan, because only the model 2002 has a desert camo version. It is the first desert camo uniform in the Romanian army. But of course, if you have any photographic evidence of Romanian troops in a different type of desert camo, by all means bring it forward, in order to give some substance to your statements. As for how could the uniforms in Afghanistan be used as a reference point for those in Irak, you have to think at the fact that we are talking about uniforms. This, by itself, implies that things are the same, especially since both theatres of war require desert camo. But you can see Romanian troops in Irak, from the 812th Battalion in the below photo. Also from Observatorul Militar.
Again, you surely can't be serious. The band the Romanian has over the shoulder is not of his weapon, but of a pouch. But lets' look at the kevlar vests. The photo of the US soldier you provided is very good. The vest worn by the soldier of the 26th Battalion is obviously of a a different type as that of one the "incriminated soldier" is wearing: -it doesn't have a camo pattern, just one color; -it has neck protection; -it has large shoulder pads; -it has two stripes, positioned lower than the three on the vest the "incriminated soldier" is wearing. On the other side, the American vest in your photo has the same camo patter and the same three stripes.
What discrepencies? 1. Is he wearing a Romanian camo uniform? Yes/No 2. Is he wearing a Romanian vest, be it even the older model? Yes/No To me the answers are more than obvious. |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 24, 2005 10:35 am | ||||
Like I said, judging from the photos, for me things are not so clear as they are for you. Do you have a problem with that? Since when being not sure of something is a crime around here. I just said I cannot say he is or he is not romanian, and without further info I cannot venture to give a clear verdict just by watching the pictures at hand. I did not try to convince you of anything. The pictures are from 2 different theaters. Do you have pictures of romanians from Irak with collars on their kevlars?
Probably you're too worked out by that to bring it in this discussion which has nothing to do with it. But to clarify, my only prejudice regarding Irak is that a country should not be occupied by foreign troops regardless of the latter's excuses. Hell of a "prejudice" huh? Funny thing that prejudice ended up in international law too. But I'm sure the brave new generation of MTV kids will make sure the world gets rid of that pesky old times "prejudice". Brave new world... |
| Posted by: Victor July 24, 2005 05:33 pm |
| Is it so hard for you to answer two simple questions? The last photo I posted is with Romanian troops in Irak. You can see their vests very clearly. Anyway, I said what I wanted to say and think that I proved my case. Others can judge for themselves. Btw, I showed C-2's image to a friend today. He said he saw the same image, with another text that advertised printing in the LEU Dorm. |
| Posted by: Imperialist July 24, 2005 06:23 pm | ||
I think I answered your questions. The answer was NO. And I also think it was agreed the text is obviously edited and lots of people used the picture for all kinds of messages. |
| Posted by: Victor July 25, 2005 02:25 pm |
| Off topic message was deleted. |
| Posted by: dragos July 25, 2005 03:15 pm |
| The post of valachus included the following find on the Internet: http://politics.abovetopsecret.com/thread40739/pg2  |
| Posted by: Carol I August 19, 2005 09:32 pm |
| One more site stating that the picture depicts Lance Cpl. Ted J. Boudreaux Jr., a reservist with Headquarters and Service Company, 3rd Battalion, 23rd Marines, a New Orleans-based infantry unit deployed in Iraq from May to September of 2003: http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/boudreaux.asp. |
| Posted by: Dani September 02, 2005 07:11 pm | ||
Good find! Thanks! |
| Posted by: Imperialist September 27, 2005 08:27 pm |
| Short article about the soldiers' complaints regarding the TAB 77's and TAB 79's performance in Afghanistan and the romanian industry's capability to produce the new Zimbrul: http://www.gandul.info/2005-09-28/actual/masinile_de_lupta |
| Posted by: cnflyboy2000 September 28, 2005 03:19 am | ||
Hmm. So Dragos was right all along, it looks like? The interesting thing to me about all this is how it shows, once again, that news photos are now suspect and unreliable; guilty until proved innocent. IMO,this is really a remarkable change in our time. Suddenly, nothing pictorial can be taken at face value. No wonder we are all become cynics? |
| Posted by: Iamandi September 28, 2005 05:55 am |
| Nice to see that picture with an BRDM/ABC (?) in first, and one TAB in the back, almost unseen... So, if i'm not so sleepy this morning, TAB 77 is the equivalent of BTR 60, and TAB 79 is the same for BTR 70 (source - an e-book with subject focused on APC and AFV). Zimbru is new, but is not in current OOB of Romanian Army? If it is, why they don't are in Afganistan? Iama |
| Posted by: Dani September 28, 2005 01:03 pm | ||
So far the only picture seen by me was: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1509&st=0&#entry18275 Maybe due to that turret (www.mfaromania.ro use that turrets for MLI84M Jderul) |
| Posted by: tomcat1974 September 28, 2005 03:21 pm | ||
You are sleeping  TAB -77 is BTR-60 TAB-79 is our creation. Basically it take the place of the BRDM. You can call it as Half BTR. The B-33 Zimbru has some resamblence with BTR-70. RN-94 (done with Turkey) is the new one. |
| Posted by: Dani November 11, 2005 11:19 am |
 A little mistake here: http://www.mapn.ro/fotodb/25oct/25_INFANTRY_FIGHTING_VEHICLE_84_M_JDER_IN_ACTIONIt is Zimbru and not Jder as they wrote. |