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Posted by: jirka vrba June 29, 2004 06:07 pm

25 th Nov 1918 Col. Eduard KADLEC (officer of Czechoslovak Legion) began to form in Irkutsk Rumunian Legion - Legiune de tragatori Transilvania-Bucovina.
It became operational in June 1919. Rumunians protected Transsiberian Railway between Nižně-Udinsk and Tajšet. Late 1919 they fought at tail and in battles at Saragul and Kujtun they defeated Bolsheviks.
In May 1920 they embarked ship Trans-os-Montes in Vladivostok. Through Singapore and Colombo Rumunians voyaged to Port Said. There they changed ship - new ship was Teutonic. 5 th july 1920 Teutonic arrived to Constanca.
14th July 1918 Col. Kadlec handed over the command.

Thats all

I´m interested in history of Czechoslovak Legion, and this story is interesting part of "Siberian Epic". If somebody know some details - please - write

Posted by: petru June 29, 2004 06:26 pm

I know about that. Kiritescu mentions something about the romanian legion. They considered themselves part of the Royal Romanian Army, and when an armistice was settled between the Bolsheviks and the Czech the Romanians were moved from the rear in front. That’s what I remember, but I am sure I can find more.

Again, in the western books, only the Czech legion is mentioned.

Posted by: jirka vrba June 29, 2004 07:47 pm

Legiune de tragatori Transilvania-Bucovina was not the first rumunian unit. It was formed from smaller units.
It was not only non-Czechoslovak unit. Polish 5. Rifle Division - 5. Dywizje Strzelców - capitulated nearby Kljukvena.

petru - If you´ll find - in future - some informations - I´ll be grateful ...

Posted by: jirka vrba June 29, 2004 08:49 pm

In chronicles of 9. and 11. Czechoslovak Regiment is written:

After fights of mjr. Zemek group (11.Rgt, II./9.Rgt, I./10.Rgt, Latvian boan, 2./3.Lgt.Art.Rgt. and four arnored trains) with Bolshevick 5.Army nearby Nižněudinsk, they was replaced with Rumunians in Šaragul (3rd Feb 1920).

Posted by: petru July 01, 2004 01:34 am

There are about 5 pages, and I don’t have the time to translate everything. Here is an abstract of what contains. If you are interested I could scan the pages and send it to you (but they are in romanian).

In the autumn 1918 the Bolsheviks started attacking the Volga front defended by the 1st Czech division and groups of the counterrevolutionary army. The Romanian battalion from Samara defended the left flank. A second Romanian battalion at Celeabinsk was detached at Kurgan where they guarded the city, installing a Romanian headquarter.
At the beginning of the winter the front was retreated in the Urals, on lines easier to defend. The Romanian troops from Samara, Celeabinsk and Kurgan were concentrated at Petropavlovsk. Lacking superior officers, the leader was chosen as col. Kadletz. During the winter the Romanian corp was concentrated at Irkutsk.

The corp was organized in two battalions: “Horia” and “Marasesti”, two armoured trains with the same name, a reserve battalion, a pioneer company, a cavalry squadron and a headquarter company. At the beginning there were 2500 people, and later the number increased to 5000 with over 100 officers. It was created a committee (“the national Romanian committee from Russia”). At 24 august 1918 it was signed a convention with the Czechoslovak committee, recognizing the common interest. They edited a newspaper “Neamul Romanesc”, held over 40 conferences and organized a Romanian library. They were supposed to guard a sector of the Transiberian railway almost 1000 km long. They led 37 incursions at 150-800 km from their basses. They had over 60 dead and a significant number of wounded.

After the Kolceac defeat the Romanians embarked in trains (19 january 1920) and started to retreat towards east. They were the rearguard of the national troops.

At Nijni-Udinsk the Yugoslav legion was destroyed. The Czech troops from the 3rd division didn’t intervene and retreated fast. The Romanians formed the rearguard.

At 3 february 1920 in Sergul rail station there troops from the Marasesti battalion and several trains from the 3rd division. Several km west the Bolshevik vanguard reached the Asei rail station with three battalions, some cavalry and 2 guns. A Romanian cavalry reconnaissance troop is defeated. The prisoners are killed when they refused to give information. During the night the Russians attacked from the north-west from the Traktovaia village. A Czech battalion left the train and retreated. The Bolsheviks attack the Romanians in the rail station. They resisted and the Russians are thrown towards the large highway to Moscow. The second day the Romanians and the Czech blew up the station and started to retreat towards east. During the night they had 8 dead and 8 wounded. A second try to surround the Romanian legion at Kuitun didn’t succeed. The Romanians formed the rearguard blowing up stations, stations water supplies, cut the telegraph etc. The moral was high. The armistice offers were rejected because they considered themselves part of the Romanian army, which was fighting the Soviets on the Dnister.

At 7 february 1920 the Czechoslovaks signed an armistice with the Bolsheviks, under the conditions that the Bolsheviks would keep 50 km distance from the rearguard troops. The Romanians were also part of the armistice, and they were replaced in around lake Baikal, guarding the railway up to Transbaikalia, where the line was occupied by Japanese troops. The Czech took over the Irkutsk guard.

At Harbin the contacted major V Cadere sent from the country to help the repatriation. In spring 1920 the Romanians reached Vladivostok. In august 1921 the arrival of the first group of Transylvanian volunteers was celebrated at Brasov.

Posted by: Carol I July 01, 2004 06:14 am

It seems that the Romanian philatelic magazine Filatelia has also published an article about the Romanian Legion in Siberia:

Traian Serendan: Mărturii despre legiunea voluntară română din Siberia [Documents on the Romanian Volunteers' Legion of Siberia] - Filatelia No.7-8 (543-544), Jul.-Aug. 2001, pp.14-15

Posted by: jirka vrba July 17, 2004 08:26 am

Thank you Petru,
Very interesting and useful info.

I´d like to write some english sentences about Col. Eduard KADLEC (he is interesting person - he served in Belgian colonies and in 1915 he was commander of Fort XI of Festung Przemysl...) and about retreat of Czechoslovak Legion in 1920 ... but I´m short of time...

I don´t speak romanian. If you have some pictures or maps od OdB I´ll be gratefull if you ĺl send me anything

- vrbici@atlas.cz

Posted by: jirka vrba July 18, 2004 06:33 am

foto of Eduard KADLEC
http://www.army.cz/avis/vojenske_rozhledy/2001_3/169.htm

Posted by: jirka vrba July 18, 2004 04:42 pm

I wrote some english sentences about Col. Eduard KADLEC here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52245&start=15
It is under construction

Posted by: Klemen July 19, 2004 12:04 am

QUOTE

I wrote some english sentences about Col. Eduard KADLEC herehttp://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52245&start=15

Belgian colonies? Was he in the Belgian colonial police or in the Force Publique?! :roll: I couldn't find any Kadlec listed in my old Belgian book about Belgian Colonial Army in Katanga during WW1. Only what appears to be mostly Flemish and Danish officers.

lp,

Klemen

Posted by: jirka vrba July 19, 2004 05:40 pm

I don´t know if my terms are right - my english is not so good...

1909 ?regional administrator? - Administrateur territorial - in Belgian Congo - Ponthierville, then Kasong and then Kil
1913 ?senior regional administrator? - Administrateur territorial principal - in sector Mongala and then in sector Likame in eastern Congo.
In Aug 1914 he was on holiday in Czech

Posted by: Klemen July 20, 2004 12:22 am

QUOTE

Now that's highly interested!!! It appears he was in the civilian service of the Belgian Congo and not a military service as I previously assumed. Great stuff, Jirka! Thanks! :wink:

BTW: Force Publique is the official title for the Belgian Colonial Army in Belgian Congo.

By the way: Did you get my PM mail from some weeks ago? I believe you have been looking for some info about 1st Yugoslav Volunteer Division in Dobrudzha 1916, haven't you? There is a good and long article about the rebellion of Croatian and Slovenian soldiers in that division in 1916. Interested? :roll:

lp,

Klemen

Posted by: jirka vrba July 22, 2004 08:47 pm

:keep:

*j*

Posted by: Klemen July 24, 2004 12:12 am

I take this means "yes"....

I'll send you the address via PM right away... It is an article in several parts....

lp,

Klemen

Posted by: jirka vrba July 24, 2004 08:01 am

thanx

*j*

Posted by: Carol I July 24, 2004 08:22 am

QUOTE

I believe you have been looking for some info about 1st Yugoslav Volunteer Division in Dobrudzha 1916, haven't you? There is a good and long article about the rebellion of Croatian and Slovenian soldiers in that division in 1916.

QUOTE

I'll send you the address via PM right away... It is an article in several parts....

Will it be possible to post the article on this forum?

Posted by: Klemen July 27, 2004 10:50 pm

Zivjo Carol!

QUOTE

Will it be possible to post the article on this forum?

But of course, Carol!

But the article is I am afraid only in Serbo-Croatian language, so.... :| :wink: Apparently the Serbs and Russians had great difficulties to raise the Yugoslav volunteer units in Odesa, Russia in 1916 and there were some open mutinies against Serbian officers and even some executions. The author mention 13 Croatian soldiers being executed in Odesa and numerous ases of desertions.

I didn't post the article here as it is too long, but I have provide direct links for all five parts of the article. Here they are:

http://www.hdpz.htnet.hr/broj140/matkovic.htm (Part I)
http://www.hdpz.htnet.hr/broj141/matkovic.htm (Part II)
http://www.hdpz.htnet.hr/broj142/matkovic.htm (Part III)
http://www.hdpz.htnet.hr/broj143/matkovic.htm (Part IV)
http://www.hdpz.htnet.hr/broj144/matkovic.htm (Part V)

BTW: Carol, any chance we could see any continueation of your translation about Romanian military chaplains on the Italian Front 1915-18? I am still looking for any Romanian personal testimonials from Italian (Isonzo) Front 1915-1918. Romanians are the last nation I haven't found a title. The other night I have been informed about memoires of a Slovakian soldier from HIR 15 from Trencsen and yesterday I have received titles from Serbia about several titles of Serbian soldiers in the k.u.k. Army in WW1, thus leaving Romanians as the only nation I haven't found anything yet. :cry:

Enjoy the article. :keep:

lp,

Klemen

Posted by: Carol I July 27, 2004 11:31 pm

QUOTE

But the article is I am afraid only in Serbo-Croatian language, so.... :| :wink:

Thanks Klemen for the links. Your summary indicates some interesting facts, but unfortunately the language of the original article is indeed a problem for me.

QUOTE

BTW: Carol, any chance we could see any continueation of your translation about Romanian military chaplains on the Italian Front 1915-18?

I'm sorry for the long silence but I got the impression that it was not exactly what you were interested in. I will start again with the translation and post it on fragments as soon as they will be ready.

Posted by: Klemen July 28, 2004 11:52 pm

Zivjo Carol!

QUOTE

Thanks Klemen for the links.

You are welcome any time.

QUOTE

Your summary indicates some interesting facts, but unfortunately the language of the original article is indeed a problem for me.

I thought the language will be the problem for you.

Yes the article is quite interested it is more like a report about what was going one with Croatian and Slovenian POWs who were sometimes forcibly recruited by Serbs for their army in Russia and salonika Front and how many of them refused to serve under Serbian command and how then Serbian officers punished them with executions and hars jail punishments. This is not what the official history has told the people in Kingdom of Yugoslavia after the Great War, when everyone was believed that thousands of Slovenes, Croats, Serbs and Bosnians from Austro-Hungarian Army have volunteered to serve with the Serbs. In reality this number was relatively small and most of them were forced. Interesting reading… I have recently also obtained a very interesting book about Yugoslav POWs in Italy 1915-1918 and there are some interesting stories and numbers about this. There are also some mention about Romanian POWs. There is also statistic how many Romanian POWs were kept in this or that Italian POW camp.

QUOTE

No, no, no.. my dear Carol…. I was only waiting for you to translate that parts of the article that I was most looking for, i.e. the ones dealing with Romanian soldiers on the Isonzo Front.

lp,

Klemen

Posted by: Carol I February 06, 2005 10:38 pm

Here is a brief summary of the article by Traian Serendan: Mărturii despre legiunea voluntară română din Siberia [Documents on the Romanian Volunteers' Legion of Siberia] - Filatelia No. 7-8 (543-544), Jul.-Aug. 2001, pp. 14-15.

QUOTE

About 5000 Romanian prisoners in Russia volunteered for the Allied Expeditionary Corps, constituting the Romanian Legion of Siberia. The Romanian corps was based at Irkutsk and was made out of two battalions (Horia and Mărăşeşti), two armoured trains bearing the same names as the battalions, a reserve battalion, a company of pioneers, a squadron of lancers and a general staff company.

The legion was commanded by an officer of Czech origin, Colonel Kodletz. The legion was part of a multitude of armies led by Admiral Kolceak described in the article as "a cruel officer of limited reasoning who did not want to collaborate with the national corps under his command (Czech, Romanian, Polish, Serbian, Lithuanian) ".

The mission of the Romanian corps was to defend the Trans-Siberian railway, all the time being the rearguard of Kolceak's troops who were in retreat. They thus fought over 9000 km from Irkutsk to Vladivostok. First they fought against Bolshevik gangs and then against regular troops of the Red Army. About 2600 soldiers reached Vladivostok.

The author states that when the various national corps were forced to reach armistices with the Red Army, the Romanian Legion did not as Romania was still at war with the Bolsheviks in Europe.

In 1920, Romania has sent to Vladivostok a military mission composed of Officer Victor Cadere and NCO Raul Alevra that had to secure the repatriation of the Siberian POWs of Romanian origin (about 15000). On 23-30 May 1920, 2400 members of the Romanian Legion and 600 POWs were embarked on the British transport ships "Trasosmontes" and "Hendesgrum". About 14000 POWs of Romanian origin remained in Russia. A few were forcefully enrolled into the Red Army and some managed to return to Romania by their own means. However, nothing is known about the faith of the other ones (most of the remaining prisoners).

Posted by: petru February 18, 2005 04:28 pm

Any useful references from this paper.

Posted by: Carol I February 20, 2005 08:06 pm

QUOTE (petru @ Feb 18 2005, 05:28 PM)

Any useful references from this paper.

1. Romanian Military Archives, The General Headquarters Fund, Decorations Office, File no. 864
2. Monitorul Oficial no. 86/1918
3. Royal High Decree no. 3870/27.10.1939 in Monitorul Oficial no. 16/15.11.1939
4. V. Manea and C. Tucă 2000 Siberia, ultima escală Buletinul Arhivelor Militare Române 4

Posted by: agblume May 29, 2006 04:19 pm

Does anyone have information about the Romanian Legion in Siberia??? I believe it was established on 28 November 1918 (n.s.) but don't know location. I am very much interested in commanders, strength, units and dates and locations of operations, as well as what was the fate of the Legion, date of disbandment and return of men to Romania. Thanks very much for any help. Regards, agblume

Posted by: Carol I May 29, 2006 06:11 pm

Take a look in the original thread on this topic: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1158.

Posted by: agblume May 30, 2006 03:02 pm

Hello Carol I, Many thanks for letting me know about the previous thread. The information about the Romanian Legion is very useful for me. Most grateful. Best regards, August

Posted by: mateias January 06, 2008 01:19 pm

I wonder if there are any pictures taken on the Siberian journey of the Romanian Legion, as I found about the Czech Legion on this site. Amazing pictures, including those from Vladivostok. One of them shows American troopers (see their hats !) led by major gen. Graves, Czechs' saviour. I also wonder if Czechs and Romanians were transported back home - at least for part of the journey - by the same ships.

http://www.drfaltin.org/archive.htm

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/wgraves.htm

Posted by: mateias January 06, 2008 02:46 pm

For agblume,

This is the link to an interesting article on this topic about Elie Bufnea, a former Legionnaire who wrote many books. He was later arrested by the communist regime (6 years jail).

According to Bufnea, the Legion included around 5,000 volunteers (1,735 fromTransilvania, 597 from Banat, 160 from Bucovina, 24 from the Kingdom of Romania, 7 from Bessarabia). Banatul, a rather small historical province, provided the largest ratio of volunteers per surface.

Romanians were in the rearguard of the Czech Legions, attacked viciously by the Bolscheviks and repulsing them valliantly. Russians called them Dikaia Divisia/The Savage Division.

http://www.revista.memoria.ro/?location=view_article&id=389

Posted by: agblume January 07, 2008 04:24 pm

Hello mateias, Many thanks for the details and the link. Best regards, agblume

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger January 05, 2011 04:00 pm

I was lucky enough to get this for Christmas as a present:-

http://img717.imageshack.us/i/img1598aaax.jpg/

Uploaded with http://imageshack.us

CORPUL VOLUNTARILOR ROMANI DIN SIBERIA (1918-1920)

Album.

Corp of Romanian Volunteers in Siberia (1918-1920),

Album.

Authors:-

IOANA RUSTOIU

CUTEAN SMARANDA,

GABRIEL RUSTOIU.

Editura Marist, Baia Mare 2010.

Approx 167 pages, 15 pages of pictures of original hand-drawn maps,

178 B&W pictures of officers, men, in locations, armoured trains, locals etc.. etc..

39 pages x approximately 67 names per page of the men involved by company, name, where from, age, occupation etc.. etc..

I will add more detail as I digest the contents, so far I have seen the names of over 167 men from Hunedoara County where I live listed, including at least 5 from my wife's home town of Cugir, which interestingly enough fell inside the county borders of Hunedoara until the border lines were redefined in the 1980's (?).

Kevin in Deva

Posted by: 21 inf January 05, 2011 05:14 pm

The book presented above by NCR might be bought at Muzeul Unirii, Alba Iulia.

It is a must have for those interested about the history of this less known military unit raised from romanians from Transilvania and Bukowina (Legiunea de trăgători transilvăneni-bucovineni, aka Legiunea de trăgători siberieni, aka Corpul 2 voluntari) in late years of ww1 and who fought together with Czech Legion (often better then czechs) against red army in Siberia. They returned home in 1921 if I remember well, via Japan, Singapore, Suez Channel, Constanţa.

Posted by: 21 inf January 05, 2011 07:39 pm

http://img834.imageshack.us/i/p1020396s.jpg/

http://img259.imageshack.us/i/p1020397d.jpg/

http://img20.imageshack.us/i/p1020398n.jpg/

http://img524.imageshack.us/i/p1030274i.jpg/

If anybody can translate them, is welcome. Romanian researchers have never seen these documents, I have some more of them, but all in russian or czech.

All images are sent to me by a czech guy I know, because I reenact romanian transylvanian volunteer (actually 1st Romanian Transylvanian Volunteer Corp, 3rd Romanian Transylvanian Volunteer Regiment "Avram Iancu") as a hobby (see photo bellow).

http://img812.imageshack.us/i/dsc0202v.jpg/

Me and my fellows, 1st December 2010, Alba Iulia.

Posted by: 21 inf January 05, 2011 07:44 pm

Sorry for the big pics, I didn't knew it'll be soooo big.

Posted by: 21 inf January 05, 2011 07:59 pm

Just for you guys, a less known pic of romanian transylvanian volunteers, ww1. Regiments of romanian volunteers from romanians from Transylvania, exAH soldiers, exPOW's in Italy.

http://img593.imageshack.us/i/68edit.jpg/

My electronic collection, given by and reproduced courtesy to National Military Museum, Bucharest.

Posted by: 21 inf January 05, 2011 08:33 pm

Also for your delice, Romanian transylvian volunteers, 1st Corp, ww1, taking the oath, 1917 most probably. Notice that due to lack of raw materials, they dont have waist belts and ammo pouches. The ammo clips were put inside the material which covered their waist. Same source of photo as above.

http://img222.imageshack.us/i/2049eedit.jpg/

Posted by: contras January 26, 2011 08:24 pm

About this subject, see
Cruciati, tirani si banditi, by Elie Bufnea, the one who had the photos and documents presented by Kevin in that album above, editura Marist, 2009.
Elie Bufnea participated in that campaign, and those are his memories.
Luptele romanilor cu bolsevicii in Siberia, by Simion Ghisa, editura Marist 2009, memories of another participant at this campaign.
More about Romanian volunteers in Siberia, Italy, French and United States, by the same Elie Bufnea:
Revolutia de eliberare nationala a Transilvaniei. Unirea (1914-1918), editura Marist, 2010.
Here are some links:

http://www.marist.ro/aparitii_istoria_adevarata01.htm

http://www.marist.ro/aparitii_istoria_adevarata02.htm

http://www.marist.ro/alte%20titluri/coperta_sg_f.jpg

http://www.marist.ro/aparitii_revolutia.htm

http://www.marist.ro/aparitii_album.htm

Posted by: 21 inf January 26, 2011 09:02 pm

This books are also available for sale at Muzeul Unirii from Alba Iulia.

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger February 09, 2011 12:29 pm

From what I understand the unit was raised using men from the following areas including Transylvania:-

Alba Inferioara - Arad -

Bihor - Bistrita-Nasaud - Brasov - Brasovului - Bucovina - Bihor - Bihorului - Basarabia -

Caras-Severin - Cenadului - Clujului - Cojocnei - Ciuc - Ciucului -

Dobrogea -

Fagaras -

Hunedoara - Hunedoarei -

Maramuras - Muras-Turda -

Satmar - Salagiu - Salaj - Sibiu - Solnoc-Dobaca -

Tarnava Mare - Tarnava Mica - Timis - Timisului - Torontal - Torontalului - Trei Scaune - Turda-Aries - Tulcan.

They were organised into:-

Compania Statului Major
121 names,

Intendenta Legiunei.
74 names.

Spital Legiunei / Hospital Medical Corps.
15 Names.

Compania de Pioneri / Engineer Company.
125 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania 1 / "Horea" Battalion, 1st Company.
133 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania a 2 a / "Horea" Battalion, 2nd Company.
123 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania a 3 a / "Horea" Battalion, 3rd Company.
115 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania a 4 a / "Horea" Battalion, 4th Company.
114 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania de depozit. / "Horea" Battalion, Deposit Company.
103 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania de mitraliera / Artillery Company.
140 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Compania de legatura.
36 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Horea" Unitatea de cercetasi calare.
16 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Marasesti" Compania 1 a / "Marasesti" Battalion, 1st Company.
140 names.

Batalionul II operativ "Marasesti" Compania 2 a / "Marasesti" Battalion, 2nd Company.
136 names.

Batalionul II operativ "Marasesti" Compania 3 a / "Marasesti" Battalion, 3rd Company.
130 names.

Batalionul II operativ "Marasesti" Compania 4 a / "Marasesti" Battalion, 4th Company.
147 names.

Batalionul II operativ "Marasesti" Compania de depozit. / "Marasesti" Battalion, Deposit Company.
104 names.

Batalionul II operativ "Marasesti" Compania de mitraliera. /Artillery Company.
141 names.

Batalionul I operativ "Marasesti" Unitatea de legatura.
40 names.

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: contras February 17, 2011 10:31 am

All those names are foundation members of one association of volunteers, association made few years after the war, Casa Voluntarilor Români din Siberia (CVRS). The list don't include reserve battalion (Irkutsk) and all the volunteers, just the members who founded CVRS.

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger February 17, 2011 01:25 pm

QUOTE (contras @ February 17, 2011 10:31 am)

Not sure I follow your meaning,

do you mean the names listed in the recently published book :-

"CORPUL VOLUNTARILOR ROMANI DIN SIBERIA (1918-1920)"

because the list of names, along with age, occupation and location where from

to my eyes equate to the members of the Legion who served in Siberia,

particularly as it gives a rank first.

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: contras February 17, 2011 04:50 pm

Yes, Kevin, those listed in the book are former veterans who served in Siberia and made after they returned home an association called Casa Voluntarilor Romani in Siberia, and Elie Bufnea was one of the directors. This list is made by him.
The total number of volunteers in Siberia is over 5000 men, up to 10000 men.

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger February 17, 2011 05:28 pm

What I do find strange is that the men listed in the book as coming from

the locations of:- Cugir, Vinereia, & Almasu Mare

are NOT on the local War memorials erected in those locations.

I have personally checked the 3 monuments for the names.

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: 21 inf February 17, 2011 09:29 pm

QUOTE (New Connaught Ranger @ February 17, 2011 07:28 pm)

What I do find strange is that the men listed in the book as coming from

the locations of:- Cugir, Vinereia, & Almasu Mare

are NOT on the local War memorials erected in those locations.

I have personally checked the 3 monuments for the names.

Kevin in Deva.

For some, maybe this mean "Patria recunoscătoare" (Gratefull Motherland).

Posted by: contras February 18, 2011 06:27 pm

QUOTE

What I do find strange is that the men listed in the book as coming from

the locations of:- Cugir, Vinereia, & Almasu Mare

are NOT on the local War memorials erected in those locations.

It is normal, because those men aren't dyng in battle, they survived the war, come back home from Siberia, and do their lives. From time to time, like other veterans, they meet each other in some places to commemorate the ones who don't survived. Those meetings were organised by CVRS, a kind of War Veterans Association. The names in the book is the list of members who founded CVRS (Casa Voluntarilor Romani din Siberia).

Posted by: Petre February 19, 2011 08:36 pm

QUOTE

If anybody can translate ...

TREATY
on the formation of The Transilvanian-Bucovinean-Romanian Volunteer Corps.
The Romanian National Committee (RNC) assumes the task of setting up from romanian, transilvanian and bucovinean military POWs which are on Russian territory, The Romanian Volunteer Corps (RVC), in order to fight for the liberation of all existing in Austro-Hungary romanian territories and to attach them to the free Romania.
The Department for Russia (DR) of the Tchechoslovak National Soviet (TchSNS), in the common purpose of the revolutionary movement of both peoples against Austro-Hungary, it undertakes to provide full support for setting up the RVC.
To this purpose, both executive organs have conspired on the following conditions
:...

RNC is the political partner, RVC is under the TchS protectorate and is formed for close action with TchS and the allies, on the russian and romanian territory and if need in France, till the final peace. Formation under TchS direction, TchS mil. trainers. Subordinate to TchS Troops. TchS logistic support, money and control....
Tchelyabinsk, Aug.24, 1918

Posted by: 21 inf February 19, 2011 08:38 pm

Petre, thank you very much!!!!!

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger February 20, 2011 10:10 am

QUOTE (contras @ February 18, 2011 06:27 pm)

QUOTE

What I do find strange is that the men listed in the book as coming from

the locations of:- Cugir, Vinereia, & Almasu Mare

are NOT on the local War memorials erected in those locations.

As the monuments in Cugir, and Vinereia are post Communist,
and erected recently, and has the names of those from the area
who died and those who served in WW1 & WW2, the fact that there
is no mention of the men who served in the Romanian Legion in Serbia,
is more than likely because those tasked with the compiling of names
being ignorant of the facts about this military unit.

Many of the monuments I have observed in and around Transylvania
make little distinction of which Army a man from the location fought
in only that he had served and in some cases died while in service.

The Romanians who served in the Romanian Legion in Russia 1918 - 1920
deserve to be recognised for that service and not written out of history through ignorance..

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: 21 inf February 20, 2011 10:40 am

Unfortunatelly, about the romanian volunteers from Siberia (2nd Corp) or about those from 1st Corp, more than 99% of romanians never heard about them. The same situation about the last regiments raised by transylvanian volunteers in 1919, which also fought against bolshevics, this time in Hungary. During comunist times, this volunteers were not mentioned, because 2nd Corp from Siberia and those from 1919 fought against bolshevics. Elie Bufnea himself was imprisoned by comunists if I recall well.

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger February 20, 2011 12:17 pm

A sad case when 22 years after the fall of communism in Romania the full story
of the military history of Romania is being kept in the dark.

Hopefully over the coming months / years some light is brought to bear on this subject
and the names of the men who were involved will be etched in stone and attached to the appropriate monuments.

May they + Rest In Peace +

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: 21 inf February 20, 2011 12:51 pm

I started to reenact transylvanian volunteers from 1st Corp in 2007 and since I and my fellows are going to diferent reenactment events in Romania and abroad in their ww1 uniform, trying to make the public aware about this volunteers. This year we'll be present at Military Museum Days in Bucharest in 7-8 May 2011, in ww1 transylvanian uniform from 1st Corp and maybe in the uniform of transylvanian volunteers from 1919, trying for the 4th year in a row to make romanian public aware about this part of the history.

The czechs are making a lot of reenactment events depicting their volunteers from Rusia and Siberia and they are knowing better their history. Unfortunatelly and sadly, in Romania everything is going in very slow rithm...

Posted by: 21 inf February 20, 2011 12:59 pm

Romanian transylvanian volunteers reenacted by me and my fellows in 2009, celebrating the romanian took-over of Oradea in 1919. Parade. The flag is reconstructed based on ww1 photos and the remains of 2nd Corp volunteer's flag which is to be found at History Museum from Alba Iulia.
http://img593.imageshack.us/i/dsc07106.jpg/

Czech volunteers reenacted by czechs, 2010, Czech Republic
http://img20.imageshack.us/i/img0957jr.jpg/

Reenactment show in Czech Republic, 2010.
Romanian transylvanian volunteers from 1st Corp, czech volunteers from Russia and romanian regulars preparing to atack enemy positions.
http://img517.imageshack.us/i/img1491n.jpg/

Romanian transylvanian volunteers from 1st Corp, reenacted in 2010.
http://img3.imageshack.us/i/img1030fw.jpg/

Reenactment in Czech Republic, 2010. Romanian transylvanian volunteers, romanian regulars and cossacks atacking enemy positions.
http://img535.imageshack.us/i/imgp1937f.jpg/

Reenactment in Czech Republic, 2010. Czech volunteer and romanian dragging a wounded romanian transylvanian volunteer from the line of fire.
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/imgp1917.jpg/

Posted by: Petre February 20, 2011 02:11 pm

There is a problem, however. These troops fought in a Civil War, in a country that was not theirs.
Unfortunately, as I read, TchS Legion have been involved in reprisals, with the Cossacks, in the Omsk region...
A very controversial action :
On Jan.15, 1920, Admiral Kolchak, the White leader of the Siberian Region, went out into the Czechoslovak Echelon, from Nizhneudinsk, in a wagon under the flags of GB, France, USA, Japan and Czechoslovakia, and came to Irkutsk. The Czechoslovak Commanders, at the request of the Socialist-Revolutionaries and pushed by French General Janin, retained and surended him. Night of 6/7 Feb. 1920, Admiral Kolchak and Prime Minister V. Pepelyayev were shoted, by order of the Irkutsk Military Revolutionary Committee.
Today, Admiral Kolchak is a hero in the Russian history...

Posted by: 21 inf February 20, 2011 02:56 pm

Romanian volunteers were almost the only one on which comanders of Czech Legion could trust. This romanian volunteers stayed away from the civil war and political battles between reds and white in a time when the very czech volunteers were contaminated by bolshevic propaganda. As read about the fightings in Siberia, romanian volunteers interfered with reds only when they were atacked or when the reds (most common local bandits, thieves) had to be punished for their ambushes against romanian volunteer trains. In that ocasions, romanian volunteers saw their enemy as ordinary criminals, not as bolshevics. The deeds and political involvement of Czech volunteer Corp is another story and is different than of the romanian volunteers. When withe troops withdraw in front of Red Army in very hard winter conditions, part of this army arived to the trains of romanian volunteers. Thousands of civilians which followed White Army, including the family of the oficers, died in this retreat. Those who went to romanian trains asked for shelter, which was denied by romanians, who followed their strict orders not to help a side of other from the russian civil war. Heart-broken, seeing women and children freezing to death, romanian just respected their orders. However, they offered, against orders, shelter and food for some 30 white russians, oficers with their wifes. For the others, there were just not enough space and food.

Posted by: Petre February 21, 2011 08:42 pm

http://www.arsbn.ro/user/image/11.-cazacu.pdf

http://revista.memoria.ro/?location=view_article&id=389
but :
The Kabarda Regiment was part of the "Savage" division (Dikaia Divizia) created at the beginning of the First World War and composed exclusively of natives from the Caucasus such as Tchechens or Tcherkesses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Division

??? !!! ??? !!! :
http://www.monitorulexpres.ro/?mod=monitorulexpres&a=citeste&p=actualitate&s_id=67856

Posted by: 21 inf February 21, 2011 09:24 pm

QUOTE (Petre @ February 21, 2011 10:42 pm)

http://www.arsbn.ro/user/image/11.-cazacu.pdf

This article is a very well written sumary for the odisey of romanian volunteers from 2nd Corp. I recomend it.

Posted by: Petre May 18, 2011 07:50 am

Further translation of 19.02
Issues agreed in The TchSv - Ro Treaty :

QUOTE

CVR = Corpul ( de armata al ) Voluntarilor Romani
CNR = Comitetul National Roman
SNCS = Sovietul National Ceho-Slovac
DR SNCS = Departamentul ptr Rusia al SNCS

1. In relatia cu DR SNCS, CNR este considerat reprezentantul politic si organul executiv al CVR.
2. CVR este infiintat de CNR sub protectoratul SNCS, pentru a lupta contra Puterilor Centrale, in stransa unitate cu trupele CS si ale Aliatilor, in primul rand pe teritoriul Rusiei si al Romaniei, iar daca va fi nevoie, si pe teritoriul francez. CVR se va putea abate de la aceste sarcini pentru realizarea propriilor scopuri, numai dupa incheierea pacii generale.
3. Daca frontul anti-german in Rusia isi scurteaza existenta, pana la dezmembrarea Austro Ungariei si pana la atingerea idealurilor politice ale Cehoslovaciei, Romaniei, Serbiei si ale ceilorlalti, CVR va merge cu trupele CS si ale celorlalte nationalitati pe frontul francez pentru a continua lupta pana la incheierea pacii generale.
4. In caz ca Romania intra in razboi contra Puterilor Centrale, CVR isi pastreaza dreptul de a se alatura Armatei Romane si de a trece sub comandamentul propriu.
5. Inrolarile in CVR se fac de catre inputernicitii CNR, cu sprijinul organelor de recrutare ale SNCS. CNR va avea dreptul sa recruteze si sa demita voluntari, cf. reglementarilor proprii si indicatiilor DR SNCS.
6. Infiintarea unitatilor CVR – a) se face de catre sectia militara a CNR sub conducerea superioara a sectiei mil. a DR SNCS, care la solicitarea CNR, dupa posibilitati, va si comanda CVR cu instructori CS.
7. Unitatile CVR infiintate – a) trec la dispoz inaltului comandament al Armatei CS.
8. CVR se organizeaza si, deoarece situatia militar-strategica permite, se intruneste si va lupta ca unitate inchegata.
9. CNR va intocmi reglementari de organizare interioara ptr. CVR : judecarea, instruirea of. si s.of, reguli ptr. avansarea of., ajutoarele ptr. invalizi. Ii prezenta pe ofiteri la avansare ( acesta este atributul DR SNCS ) si transmite ordinele Armatei CS.
10. In cazul lipsei de of. in CVR, CNR cu acordul sectiei militare a SNCS va completa corpul of. din randurile armatelor aliate. Of. instructori CS, la fel cei aliati, vor invata comenzile romanesti.
11. DR SNCS se obliga sa inzestreze CVR la fel ca Armata CS si se va ingriji si de dotarea unitatilor tehnice si auxiliare. Sumele necesare se stabilesc de CNR, dar nu mai mult ca pentru trupele CS.
12. SNCS acopera total cheltuielile cu organizarea, recrutarea, agitatia necesara, precum si ptr intretinere.
13. In acest scop SNCS deschide un cont curent special la sectia sa financiara. CVR nu se poate aproviziona fara avizul SNCS si atunci numai de la surse competente.
14. SNCS are drept de control la unitatea de cazarmare a CVR si supravegheaza organizarea si instruirea Corpului prin imputernicitii sai speciali.
15. Toate problemele importante le rezolva SNCS cu participarea si acordul CNR. Problemele discutabile se rezolva in comun de reprezentanti, la paritate.
16. Discutiile cu Aliatii referitoare la CVR vor fi purtate de SNCS prin reprezentantii CNR, in cond. Pct.15. CNR, in folosul intereselor comune, la fel ca si SNCS, va evita discutiile independente cu Aliatii, fara prezenta reprezentantilor semnatarilor, referitor la interese ce nu s-au discutat in prealabil de partile semnatare.
17. CVR poate fi trecut in mod exceptional sub conducere suprema catre CNR sau alt organ central romanesc, care isi asuma conducerea miscarii revolutionare contra Austro Ungariei, caz in care aceasta sau reprezentanti ai Aliatilor vor acoperi cheltuielile cu organizarea, recrutarea si intretinerea CVR, astfel calculate de DR SNCS.

Posted by: 21 inf May 19, 2011 03:07 am

Thanks, Petre! What you translated now is the "contract" between romanian volunteers and the Czech Corp, when romanian decided to subordinate themselves to the czechs.

Posted by: Petre May 19, 2011 08:13 am

In fact it is between two political and executive organizations, The Romanian National Committee (RNC) and The Department for Russia (DR) of the Tchechoslovak National Soviet (TchSNS).
Some questions :
Who were those people of RNC ? (some names)
Did they also fought in RVC ?
Was really this Treaty fulfilled ? (Was an Army Corps set up, or something else smaller ?)
Some known CO ?

Posted by: 21 inf May 19, 2011 08:06 pm

Comitetul Naţional Român was founded on 3rd of August 1918 at Celiabinsk. It's president was dr. Voicu Niţescu. CNR signed the above Treaty with the czechs, founding the 2nd Romanian Volunteer's Corp. After this treaty was signed, the RVC was practically born as a "mare unitate de luptă", until this date existing some transylvanian-bucowinean volunteer formations in Russia, but not a bigger unit. At 3rd August 1918 was formed the first regiment of 2nd RVC, named "Horia". Not to be confused with other RVC regiments called "Horia", the one from Italy and the one from Transylvania, raised in 1919 and latter renamed "Beiuş".

This treaty was signed on 24th of August 1918 in Celiabinsk railroad station.

At this date, chief of military section of CNR was dr. Nicolae Nedelcu, secretary of CNR was Corneliu Vaida and Simion Gocan was chief of financial section of CNR.

On 29 of October 1918, at Celiabinsk, CNR declared that romanian inhabited areas from Transylvania being united with Romania, before the Great National Gathering from 1st of December 1918 was held. This declaration of CNR is the following (sorry for romanian, I dont have time now to translate it into english):

"I. Miile de români din Rusia, originari din Austro-Ungaria, organizaţi într-un puternic Corp de Voluntari, au aclamat pe Maiestatea Voastră de Rege al tuturor românilor. Ei sunt gata şi aşteaptă ordinele Maiestăţii Voastre. La 29 octombrie, ei au proclamat desfacerea pământurilor româneşti de către Austro-Ungaria şi alipirea lor la România şi acum aşteaptă ca împreună cu vitejii lor fraţi din Regat, să încoroneze pe Maiestatea Voastră, cât mai curând, la Alba Iulia.

II. Corpul Voluntarilor Români şi Comitetul Naţional Român din Rusia depun omagiile lor în faţa Maiestăţii Voastre, cu prilejul continuării războiului din partea României. Românii subjugaţi din Transilvania, Banat, Crişana, Maramureş, Sătmar, Bihor şi Bucovina, sunt mândri de-a fi de aici înainte supuşii credincioşi ai Maiestăţii Voastre, iar Voluntarii Români din Rusia, urmărind cu încredere şi entuziasm înaintarea fraţilor lor de sânge şi de arme în adâncul moşiei strămoşeşti, aşteaptă nerăbdători ordinele Maiestăţii Voastre".

This proclamation was sent imediatly, by wire, to Wilson, presindent of USA, by dr. Voicu Niţescu, in order to let the former the will of union Transylvania to Romania.

Posted by: Petre May 20, 2011 07:36 am

Some videos here :
http://wn.com/Czech_Legion

Something here, but I didn't open yet :
http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/18221-british-awards-to-legion-roumaine-de-siberia/

And here, but maybe you know :
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?131887-The-Greek-Army-in-Russia-1919

Good bye.

Posted by: Florin May 24, 2011 06:44 am

All these East Europeans still alive by 1940 could be a gold mine of information for the secret services of the Axis countries prior to the invasion of the Soviet Union. I am wondering if the spy guys bother to remember them.
From many points of view, the 1941 invasion of Soviet Union was a kind of jump into unknown.

Posted by: New Connaught Ranger May 24, 2011 07:06 am

QUOTE (Florin @ May 24, 2011 06:44 am)

All these East Europeans still alive by 1940 could be a gold mine of information for the secret services of the Axis countries prior to the invasion of the Soviet Union. I am wondering if the spy guys bother to remember them.
From many points of view, the 1941 invasion of Soviet Union was a kind of jump into unknown.

Very doubtful, the returned volunteers from the 1919-1921 period in my opinion
had very limited information with regards the small area they operated along
in the period of the Russian Civil War by the time that WW2 was underway
and the Germans were going into the Soviet Union proper the information would have been very old and dated.

Yes the railway lines and towns they passed through would have remained the same, but military positions from
a conflict 20 years before would have been worthless.

Most of the Legion members unless officers probably never even saw a map of where they were, while they were there, and might know locations from the names of any towns they passed through.

Kevin in Deva.

Posted by: contras May 26, 2011 05:06 pm

QUOTE

Maybe just the ones who were at Darnita, near Kiev. The ones who fought in Siberia knows a lot about Transsiberian railroad, but those were for little value for Axis, because Axis troups never reach to this railroad. Better use could be the ones who fought with Denikin army, in Southern Ukraine. In 1918-1919, Romanian troops occupied Tiraspol and other parts of Transnistrian region to assure French flanks who were at Odessa.

Posted by: contras August 08, 2011 08:11 am

http://cristiannegrea.blogspot.com/2011/08/luptatorii-romani-din-siberia.html

Posted by: gheorghe August 10, 2011 09:04 am

Hello all!
I am a freelance journalist and researcher and I'd like to do a documentary movie about the Anti-bolshevik front and the Romanian Legion. If you can help me with documents, please drop me a note. If you are organizing reenactment sessions, I would be happy to travel and film/photograph during these, to get footage for the documentary. If you could suggest relevant experts that could feature in the film, please drop me a line, too.
All in one, any help is highly appreciated.
Yours,
Gheorghe

Posted by: 21 inf August 10, 2011 08:17 pm

Gheorghe, it will be a ww1 reenactment show at Râşnov at 28 august 2011. It will be romanian army against Central Powers. We reenact transylvanian volunteers from ww1, from 1st Volunteer Corp and 2nd Volunteer Corp. You can come to Râşnov and tape everything you want, it will be also a reenactment of a ww1 battle, transylvanian volunteers also in the fight, also Czech Legion in the fight, allied with us. You can find more pics with transylvanian volunteers at photogallery of www.datinastrabuna.ro, it is our military history club site.

If you need info, just ask on PM what you need and I'll try to help with what I have (info, ww1 photos - some of them can be find on this forum, I posted them some time ago).

On 27 august it will be on the same town a reenactment from napoleonic era, including romanians from Orlat Grenzinfanterie Regiment reenacted (but not only).

Regards!

Posted by: gheorghe August 12, 2011 07:48 am

Sounds good, I'll try to make it to Râșnov, then.
Could you possibly PM me your phone number, to get in touch with you while there? If I won't be able to attend, I'll ask a friend to go for some footage.
Thanks
Gheorghe

Posted by: 21 inf August 12, 2011 05:06 pm

You (or your friend) just come uphill in the fortress of Râşnov on 28 august and look for romanian reenactors in ww1 uniforms. Were they are, the romanian transylvanian volunteers are

See you there!

Posted by: Petre August 13, 2011 12:36 pm

http://www.basarabia91.net/2010/03/romanii-uitati-in-imperiul-raului.html

http://istorie.uab.ro/publicatii/colectia_auash/annales_8/21%20%20serban.pdf

http://istorie.uab.ro/publicatii/colectia_auash/annales_4_5/18.pdf

http://mihailandrei.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/o-anabassis-romaneasca/

http://www.simleusilvaniei.ro/prezentare_personalitati_11.php

http://www.mnuai.ro/docs/apulum/articole/ioan%20serban.pdf

http://membres.multimania.fr/dgrecu/Volunt.html

http://bogdanjournal.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/epopeea-legiunii-romane-din-siberia-ii/

Posted by: 21 inf August 13, 2011 01:49 pm

A brief history of transylvanian volunteers in ww1 http://www.enciclopediaromaniei.ro/wiki/Corpul_Voluntarilor_Ardeleni, in romanian language.

Posted by: Petre August 13, 2011 05:41 pm

QUOTE (petru @ June 29, 2004 06:26 pm)

Again, in the western books, only the Czech legion is mentioned.

Yes indeed, I can say the same thing, but I still look for...

Posted by: Petre March 07, 2012 07:31 pm

http://www.frontpress.ro/?p=16989

http://www.universulromanesc.com/ginta/showthread.php?t=1503

Posted by: muggs March 08, 2012 07:28 am

Very good read, thanks for the links.

Posted by: contras March 11, 2012 08:05 am

QUOTE

http://www.frontpress.ro/?p=16989

http://www.universulromanesc.com/ginta/showthread.php?t=1503

Source is the same, the original is here:

http://cristiannegrea.blogspot.com/2011/08/luptatorii-romani-din-siberia.html

Posted by: 21 inf August 11, 2012 04:13 pm

Tombstone of captain Traian Morcan from Romanian Legion from Siberia, buried at Câmpeni ortodox church yard, Alba county.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/dsc0343uy.jpg/

Posted by: ANDREAS August 11, 2012 05:00 pm

what? I will ask someone if it's just a a coincidence of names!

Posted by: 21 inf August 11, 2012 05:31 pm

Could be, or could be not.

But knowing the spirit of the guy I know you will ask, who knows?

Posted by: ANDREAS August 12, 2012 10:55 am

21inf, I already asked but not yet received any answer! He is asking his family, as he personally knows nothing about it! As soon as I will know something I will post!

Posted by: Petre June 14, 2021 09:48 am

Vladivostok, 15 nov. 1918
https://lot1959.livejournal.com/95242.html

The Author : On 11 nov. 1918 was signed The Armistice of Compienge who ended WW1.
Since 29 june 1918 Vladivostok was under Allies control.
On 15 nov. 1918 in Vladivostok a parade of allied troops took place in honor of the Armistice.
The Romanians
From the POWs of Camps of Siberia and Far-East were formed a series of Corps, «iron legions» and others... Were also units of polish, serbians, romanians, etc.
Until mid-1919, all these ethnic formations wore Russian uniforms with their own insignia, therefore, it is sometimes very difficult to determine from a photo which nationalities certain servicemen belong to.
It happens that the photos are incorrectly signed.
There are two photos with romanians :

user posted image

Posted by: Petre June 18, 2021 04:10 am

It was found here (in fact, a czeh website) :

https://lot1959.livejournal.com/178646.html

Armored train of the romanian division (2,000 men under col. Kadlec) who was in action on the (Trans-Siberian) railway, near station (Ust-) Kut.