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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > Awards & Badges > Information needed on Medals|
|Posted by: mabadesc July 20, 2003 09:57 pm|
| I'd like to know what the following Romanian medals were given out for, their importance, and how they originated:
Mihai Viteazul 3rd class
Also, its different variations - ribbons, swords.
-with great officer rank
-with "cavaler" rank
Thanks for your help.
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 21, 2003 01:50 am|
| It's a Romanian WWII Forum, so we'll discuss about the military variants of these awards (exception for Mihai Viteazul, which is a pure military one).
It's just too bad if we cannot post pictures yet...
Ok, so let's begin with the Order of Michael the Brave.
The order was instituted by Royal Decree No. 2968 of September 26, 1916. The award could be conferred only to officers for high bravery on the field or in planification and execution (For soldiers, there was the Virtute Militara), after the Royal Decree No. 3709 of November 6, 1940. It was the highest Romanian military award.
The order had the design of a trefoiled-cross made of gilt and covered with blue(which was signifying "purity") enamel, with King Ferdinand's cipher on the obverse and "1916" on the reverse (for the WWI type). The 2nd and the 3rd classes had the cross surmounted by the royal crown made of gold plated silver. The 3rd class cross was 20mm long, while for the 2nd class it had 28mm in lenght. The 3rd class cross was 40mm long and had to be worn on the left brest; the 2nd class was 60mm in lenght and was worn in commodore (on the neck, just like the Ritterkreuz) while the 1st class was also 60mm long and was worn like a brooch on the left.
The ribbon was made of dark cherry-coloured moire, 37mm wide, bordered by a 3mm golden stripe on each side.
There were many variations for this award...
The official 1st class model 1941 had Ferdinand's cipher with "1916" on the upper part of the cross and Michael's cipher with "1941" on the lower arm of the cross.
But there are other variations too for the 1941 model; There's a type with two 57mm long swords and only Michael's cipher in the center of the cross with the date ''1941'' on it's lower arm. Those specimens were minted at Prague and Wien.
The official 2nd class model 1941 features on the obverse the Michael cipher in the center of the cross with "1941" on the lower arm of the cross. On the reverse, it's the same pattern but with Ferdinand's Royal cipher and the "1916" date.
Variations for the 2nd Class feature the unusual swords (minted in Praha or Wien) and on the obverse the Michael cipher with the 1941 date on the lower arm of the cross. On the obverse, you find only the "1916" date, and on the center.
Source of images : http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/ (Hendrik's Medal Corner - P.S.: The 2nd class 1941 with swords is actually in my collection!)
The 3rd class is just like the 2nd, and the variations too. (But at the reduced scale of 40mm lenght).
After 23 August 1944, a new Michael the Brave Order was designed. Practically, it was the same pattern but with the cipher and date changed. Michael's cipher was placed in the center of the obverse cross, and the date '1944' was placed on the center of the reverse. For the 1st class, only the cipher appeared.
I do not know any variations for that type, because there were no more medals made in Wien or Praha (we declared war on them! ).
On 30th December 1947, the order became obsolete. The new highest military order of Romania was established in 1949 : "The Order of Defense of the Motherland" in three classes.
Order of Defense of the Motherland, 2nd Class R.S.R. issue (1965-1989)
Source : http://myhome.naver.com/czar91/Medal/Europe/Romania/
|Posted by: mabadesc July 21, 2003 02:44 am|
| Thanks for the info....very cool.
Were they awarded in order? For instance, an officer would receive 3rd class, then 2nd class, then 1st class?
Also, was there a big difference between classes?
I'm waiting for your explanation of the other two orders, the Crown and the Star.
Great job, and thanks again.
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 21, 2003 03:00 am|
| mabadesc wrote :
No, I don't think so... A Romanian officer medic who died heroically (I don't remember his name right now :oops: ) received directly the 2nd class post-mortem, without having won the 3rd class before...
Yes, there was a difference, but not so big... The recipients of any class were immediatly made knights of Michael the Brave, and each one had the same rights and priviliges... Each bearer of the order was also presented a sort of uniform consisting of a white cloak and a cap, made of abba and lamb skin respectively.
The difference in class was due to the prestige of each one. The 1st class was rarely awarded... Mainly to foreigners. Every marshal (Romanian, German or Soviet) was decorated with the 1st class. Later I'll make a list with the WWII recipients of the 1st class...
|Posted by: Victor July 21, 2003 09:33 am|
| There were four official versions of the Mihai Viteazul Order:
-1916: as Geto-Dacul described it
It had two 57 mm swords added to the 1st and 2nd classes of the 1916 model and 38 mm swords to the 3rd class. Only a few were minted and none were awarded.
It was instituted by Royal Decree no. 2787 on 8 October 1941. The cipher of Mihai I and the year 1941 were added on the cross: 1st class had from up to down: 1916, Ferdinand's cipher, Mihai's cipher and 1941. The 2nd and 3rd classes had on the front Mihai's cipher and 1941 and on the back Ferdinand's cipher and 1916.
It was instituted by Royal Decree no. 1935 on 18 October 1944. The swords were added once again (same dimensions) and the title with swords was added to the name of the order. The 1st class had on the front the crown and Mihai's cipher. The 2nd and 3rd classes had on the front the crown and Mihai's cipher and on the back 1944.
Yes. This way the number of higher classes (2nd and 1st) was limited.
That would be impossible.
Here is a list of the recipients of the 1st class in WWI and WWII.
lt. gen. Constantin Prezan – 30 January 1920
lt. gen. Alexandru Averescu – 27 October 1921
marshal Joseph Cesaire Joffre – 26 September 1917
marshal Ferdinand Foch – 14 June 1920
marshal Philippe Petain – 14 June 1920
marshal Franchet D’Esperay – 4 October 1928
Amedeo II of Savoia, Duke D'Aosta – 26 February 1919
gen. Armando Diaz - 26 February 1919
marshal Pietro Badoglio – 4 November 1926
gen. Pershing – 30 January 1920
fieldmarshal Sir Douglas Haig – 5 February 1920
fieldmarshal Lord Allenby – 28 February 1920
marshal Earl Haig of Bemersyde – 8 December 1923
gen. Ion Antonescu – 21 August 1941
King Mihai I – 8 November 1941
Reichsmarshall Hermann Goring – 14 October 1941
Admiral Erich Raeder - 14 October 1941
Feldmarschall Braucshitsch – 14 October 1941
Feldmarschall W Keitel - 14 October 1941
Felmarschall von Rundstedt – 1 September 1942
Feldmarschall von Bock - 1 September 1942
gen. Ewald von Kleist – 6 October 1942
maj. gen. von Paulus – 5 February 1943
marshal Umberto of Savoia – 26 July 1943
marshal Gustav Mannerheim – 1 November 1941
marshal Rodion Malinovsky – 4 August 1945
marshal Feodor Tobulkhin – 9 May 1947
gen. Ivan Susaicov - 9 May 1947
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 21, 2003 04:45 pm|
| Victor wrote :
Captain Medic Cosma C. Constantin (born 28 March 1906, Stanita, Roman county - died 28 September 1941, Malaia Belozerka, Ukraine), from the 16 Vanatori de Munte Batalion.
He received only the 2nd class, post-mortem. And there are others like him.
Sources : Alesandru Dutu, Florica Dobre, Leonida Loghin, Romanian Army in WWII 1941-1945, Editura Enciclopedica, 1999, Bucharest, page 128.
Colonel Eugen Ichim, The Military Order of "Michael the Brave", Editura Modelism & Jertfa, 2000, Bucharest, page 131.
|Posted by: Dénes July 21, 2003 06:30 pm|
| While talking about awarding 'Michael the Brave' Order, IInd Class, it's interesting to note that no active Rumanian airman was ever decorated with this class of the prestigious order.
AFAIK, only Cpt. Serbanescu and Cpt. rez. Cantacuzino were ever considered being awarded with the IInd Class, but the first one died before receiving it, while the second one was rather awarded the same order with swords, IIIrd Class, instead of the IInd Class.
|Posted by: Victor July 21, 2003 06:52 pm|
|Sorry to disappoint you, but in my copy of col. Ichim's book, he appears with a 3rd class post-mortem, not a 2nd class. :wink:|
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 21, 2003 10:30 pm|
| Victor wrote :
Are you referring to Cosma C. Constantin??? :?: :!:
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 21, 2003 11:50 pm|
| Ordinul Steaua Romaniei
The order was instituted by High Decree No. 1108 of May 10, 1877, one of the first documents in which Romania exercised its authority as an independent State. It was meant to reward civil and military service to the State. The first pattern was created during the reign of Alexandru Ioan Cuza, in 1864 when it bore the name of the Order of Union (Ordinul Unirii). Initially, the Order of Union was refused by the sultan and the other Great Powers because it was an affirmation of independence.
The classic model of the Star of Romania is just like Victor's avatar...
It was minted and used between 1877-1932. But we will not discuss very much of it because it's a WWII forum. The Order of the Star was the highest Romanian civil decoration. It was the second military one after the Order of Michael the Brave.
The second type was redesigned in 1932 by king Carol II (Carol was a great stamp, medal and uniform designer - maybe the only things he was good at, appart of s... :wink: :!: ).
On February 12, 1937 a 1st class was created.
The order was finally established in 6 classes as following :
I - Great Cross (Mare Cruce)
II - 1st class
III - Great Officer (Mare Ofiter)
IV - Commander - Commodor (Comandor)
V - Officer (Ofiter)
VI - Knight (Cavaler)
GREAT CROSS :
The Great Cross was worn with the badge on a sash worn over the right shoulder and the breast star on the left side of the dress coat or uniform. Clergy however, wore it at the throat.
The badge had a size of 60mm and the brest star of 75mm. The ribbon was red with silver side stripes and red borders for this class only.
For the Great Cross, the ribbon was 100mm lenght, the silver side stripes were of 11mm and the red borders of 6,5mm.
However, a war ribbon was created in 1938, and consisted of golden edges varying in width from 3mm to 7mm according to grade, could be added to every class.
1ST CLASS :
The First Class was worn as the Great Cross. The neck decoration was of 60-61mm lenght, and the brest star of 82-83,5mm. The ribbon was red with a silver central stripe. Width of the ribbon : 100,5mm. Width of the silver central stripe : 18mm.
GREAT OFFICER :
The Great Officer class was worn at the neck, but with a breast star on the left brest. The size of the neck decoration was between 50-60mm. The brest star was of 66mm. The ribbon was the same as at the Great Officer, but reduced in size. The ribbon was 44,5mm width, the silvers stripes were of 5,5mm and the red borders 2mm.
The Commander grade was only a neck cross. It measured between 50-60mm. The ribbon was 65mm width, the silvers stripes were of 6mm and the red borders 2mm.
The Officer grade was worn from a ribbon with a rosette on left brest. Its size was of 40-42mm. The ribbon was 40mm width, the silvers stripes were of 4mm and the red borders 1mm.
The Knight's description is as above except that it has NO rosette on the ribbon, it is SILVERED (not gold gilt) and the ribbon was 37mm width, the silvers stripes were of 4mm and the red borders of 1mm.
When the swords intersect in the middle of the cross, it means that the cross was awarded in war time only. If the swords are found between the cross and the crown, that means it was awarded to military personel in time of peace.
Order of the Star - Officer - Type I (1877-1932)
Source : http://www.marksmedals.com/
Order of the Star, Knight, War Type #2 (1932-1947), with "Virtute Militara" ribbon.
Source : http://www.marksmedals.com/
On 30 June 1941, it was decided to award any class of these order on the ribbon of the Medal for Military Bravery (red with narrow blue edges) if earned by the recipient in an action against the enemy. On June 26, 1943, King Michael instituted the addition of an oak leaf as a ribbon device which was awarded to soldiers who were wounded in action on three or more occasions. The oak leaf consisted of an oxidized metal stylized oak leaf 28 mm by 10 mm.
Source : http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/
After December 30, 1947 the Order of the Star was disbanded and replaced by another one : The Order of the Star of the People's Republic of Romania, who later was changed in the Order of the Star of R.S.R.
The Order of the Star of the People's Republic of Romania, Model #2, 1st class with diamonds.
Source : http://www.collectrussia.com/
Klietmann, Dr. Kurt-Gerhard. Phaleristik Rumänien (Berlin 1975)
Safta, Jipa, Velter, & Marinescu. Decoratii Românesti De Razboi (1860-1947) (Bucharest 1993)
|Posted by: Dénes July 22, 2003 03:50 am|
| I think there should be a separate web page created on the main site for such detailed descriptions of various Rumanian orders, medals, badges, etc.
|Posted by: Victor July 22, 2003 08:32 am|
|Yes, Constantin C. Cosma. As I told you it was impossible to receive the 2nd class without receiving first the 3rd class. It was mentioned specifically in the decree.|
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 22, 2003 08:16 pm|
| I checked the 1916 & 1940 reglementation a you are right!
|Posted by: mihai July 24, 2003 03:01 am|
Is correct title of this book foolwing？
Col. Eugen Ichim -EOrdinul militar de razboi ''Mihai Viteazu'',
Editurile;Modelism oi Jertfa, Bucureoti, 2000
Or,Do you have English-transration version of the book?
Finally,You said me I collected many order of michael the brave.
Why do you show the pictures you collected?
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 24, 2003 04:13 am|
| mihai wrote :
I just translated the title in English... There is no English version of this book.
When did I say that you "collected many Orders of Michael the Brave"? I only said that I had some MV's in my collection.
I did not show any pictures of my medals... In my description, I just used some various pictures of these orders, from various sites. The only coincidence was the Order of Michael the Brave model 1941, 2nd class with swords, that I actually have in my collection... The guy ( http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/) that showed the picture must have taken it from eBay Germany, where the order was never sold.
|Posted by: mihai July 25, 2003 01:26 am|
Thank you for reply
Are you hendrik's friends?
Why did you know the story?.
Would tell me the evidence he have taken the picture from e-Bay Germany?
Do you know the e-Bay items number about you wrote the order
I expect your reply.
|Posted by: Geto-Dacul July 25, 2003 02:02 am|
| Hello mihai,
First of all, I do not know mr. Hendrik. The dealer from which I purchased the medal was from Germany, and before selling it to me, he listed it on eBay, where he wanted the huge price of 5000$ on it... Maybe that Hendrik took the pic from eBay, when the item was online (only once!)
Unfortunately, I do not have the item #...
|Posted by: mabadesc October 29, 2003 08:50 pm|
| Could someone please tell me a bit more about this Slovakian order and under what circumstances a Romanian officer might have been awarded it? (both the officer star and the neck order).
The same question applies for the following order, the Czech War Cross, instituted by the exiled Czech government from London.
Ironically, the SAME romanian officer received both awards, PLUS the Slovakian Cross (not pictured here). It doesn't make much sense, unless the slovakian orders were awarded pre-1944, and the Czech one post-1944.
Thanks for any explanations...
P.S. Photos were taken from Hendrick's website - I wasn't able to upload my own photos since I don't have a URL.
|Posted by: bobby1974 May 22, 2013 12:26 pm|
hello "Geto - Dacul"
Can you tell me if you have information, if other soldiers who died on 28 September 1941, in Belozerka, Ukraine, were decorated (even posthumously)?
I see that you refer to the book "Alesandru Dutu, Florica Dobre, Leonida Loghin, Romanian Army in WWII 1941-1945, Editura Enciclopedica, 1999, Bucharest, page 128.
I ask because my grandfather fell on the same day that the doctor, and he was part of the same 16th Mountain hunters battalion and since few years ago I collect data of any kind relating to this place (battle).
thank you in advance