Question about Romanian-made Bf. 109 G, what models and what was the time-frame

I'd be interested to find out what models of the Bf 109 G were assambled at IAR Brasov, and in what period. Were they any different than the original types manufactured in Germany? Is it true that their manufacturing continued at IAR even after 23 August 1944 (from pre-existent kits)?

And two additional questions: had any of the Romanian-built G 6 the Erla Haube canopy installed? And were there any Romanian G-6 used BEFORE 23 August (Romanian or German built) whit the mentioned canopy (the no. 31 flown by Bazu Cantacuzino in Italy)?

Looking forward to your answers, thank you!

I.A.R. Brasov assembled the Bf 109 G-2, G-4 and the G-6.
I.A.R. Brasov effectively ceased aircraft production after the USAF bombing of 6 May 1944. After that the next product that came out of the Brasov factory doors were I.A.R22 tractors at the end of 1946. After the war, a workshop called ARMV-3 (Atelierul de Reparatii Material Volant No. 3) remained on the Brasov site and continued to do some minor aircraft work such as the Radu Manicatide designs.
After the Brasov site was rendered useless, I.A.R. continued to manufacture aircraft in Arpasu de Sus and Caransebes. The remaining Bf 109 were assembled in Caransebes.
The aircraft were all standard and the only difference was that the Bf 109 G-6 that were fitted with streamlined/longer bulges over the MG 131 chutes. These are unique to the Romanian version and they seem to have served simply aerodynamic purposes - photos of the Bf 109 with the cowls removed show that they were fitted with standard MG 131 guns.
No aircraft with Erla Haube were manufactured by I.A.R. However, the Erla Haube could be easily retro-fitted to any Bf 109, irrespective of their type.
There are a number of Bf 109 G-6 with Erla canopies wearing cockades crudely applied over Romanian crosses such as "Blue 10" of the Dessloch-Serbanescu unit. There are many photos of Bf 109 with Erla Haube and cockades.

I gather you are doing some work on the Bf 109. If you need help with Bf 109 technical info, please PM me.

HTH
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on November 22, 2013 08:30 pm

Radu, thank you very much for your prompt and detailed answer!

There was a plane regading the dispersal of the production of IAR factory in order to prevent being damaged bay bombing even from 1942 but it was not aplied until the spring of 1944 after the alied bombings. So the propeller , the weapons sistems and other small parts were transfered to Campulung Muscel , the engines manufacturing to Colibasi area and the cockpit to Caransebes. Later after the war the factory from Campulung begin manufactoring machines for the textile industry , lookers the later motorcycles and off road vehicles( M-57, M-59 M-461 and ARO). At the begining of car manufacturing only the frame and the engine were manufactured at Campulung the carbodys were manufactured in Colobasi at the former aicraft engine factory that latter became Dacia.
I have a question we manufactured the Me 109 or we only ansambled the kits from parts that came from Germany ?

The Bf 109 G-2 and Bf 109 G-4 were assembled from kits ( ready painted parts).
The Bf 109 G6 were manufactured at Brasov with most parts imported from Germany

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 25, 2013 11:39 am

Very interesting info, Taz, thanks for sharing!

Regia Autonoma I.A.R. had circa 15 satellite workshops and factories of various sizes. This was mirroring the German system whereby if one site was bombed, production could continue elsewhere. The Brasov site was by far the largest so after the USAF bombing in 1944, aircraft production in Romania was severely curtailed and never regained it strength.
The current I.A.R. aircraft factory site in Ghimbav used to be such a satellite factory during the war.
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on November 26, 2013 08:28 am

Radu, the current I.A.R. aircraft factory site in Ghimbav was built in late 60s. During WWII there were only 2 hangars, one hit and destroyed by the germans after 23 august. No plant or work shop there. Near Ghimbav, in Cristian was a storage place, the biggest for IAR plant!

It seems that I.A.R. had an "atelier" in Ghimbav.
I have details about a number of I.A.R.80 and 81 that were sent to Ghimbav for repairs in 1944.
When I said "I.A.R. had satellite factories" that does not mean that every single one was the same size or had the same scope as the I.A.R. Brsov site. They all varied in size. Some were large, others were just workshops.
I have no precise details about the Ghimbav site, but in as far as I know, when ARMV-3 workshop was closed in Brasov in the sixties, aviation construction was moved there. It sems that there were enough tools and equipment there to justify the creation of a factory.
Radu

Radu, maybe those planes were sent to Centrul Perfectionare Pilotaj Ghimbav, which was a military facilities, not related to IAR plant. (Centrul Perfectionare Pilotaj Ghimbav came on Ghimbav airfield own by Aeroclubul Brasov when WW2 had started, and beside 2 existent hangars were erected some other military facilities as Pavilion Administrativ, Bad rooms etc etc)

At that time Ghimbav was a small agricultural village, with no industrial facilities.

When ARMV-3 workshop was closed in Brasov the production was moved to Bucharest, and after a while came back in Brasov.

When ARMV-3 came back in Brasov the first production lines were ready built at ICA Ghimbav plant in Brasov and were well equipped because there was supposed to start the production of BN-2. BN-2 prodction was moved to Bucharest and there the french helicopters start to be built in this new plant. The first helicopters were built with English tools that supposed to built BN-2 planes, but this is another story!

And one image for example. ICA Ghimbav was built in the left side of this image (left from the trees-nothing there before this). The hangar from left side still exist today incorporate in the plant after the production was extended.

Horia,
I have no idea which precise corner of which precise site was used, All I am saying is that Regia Autonoma I.A.R. did repair work on some I.A.R.80 (this apears in the records of at least eight I.A.R.80) in Ghimbav. This happened in 1944 so it may have something to do with the attacks on the Brasov site.

As I said, and I repeat, just because I.A.R. had a "satelite" somewhere that does not mean that it was a giant industrial monolyth in every single case. Sometimes such "satellites" were just workshops. I.A.R. was a Regie Autonoma with sites all over the country and extended well beyond I.A.R. Brasov, whch was just one component among many other components of this conglomerate. Think of it like "CFR": that includes both the locomotive depots, coal bunkers, triages and "cantonul acarului" all over the country. Size is irrelevant, they are all cogs in the same overall CFR machine.

In any case, this thread is about Bf 109 built by I.A.R. and in as far as I know, Ghimbav had nothing to do with that.

Radu

Radu, I understand your opinion and I did not commnet on the size of this work-shops, I just mention that Ghimbav site was not part if the IAR "industrial sistem". As I said, in Brasov area only at Cristian village was a big storage!

All I am doing is tell what I found in the files. There are numerous entries of "In reparatii - I.A.R.-Ghimbav". It appears that I.A.R.80 and 81 were repaired by I.A.R. in Ghimbav. I checked and so far I found an entry for "I.A.R.-Ghimbav" in 36 separate I.A.R. 80 files.
Most of these entries are in the second half of 1944. This is after the Brasov site was damaged. It is possible that some repair facilities were moved there after the factory was bombed.
BUT this has nothing to do with the Bf 109 and it is only polluting the topic for no one's benefit.
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on November 27, 2013 04:32 pm

Radu, I do not intend to argue with you but "In reparatii - I.A.R.-Ghimbav" sound very strange.
....in the second half of 1944 as you said the Ghimbav facilities were damage after 23 august events. One hangar explode and the other barracks were damage by the german strafing. The only suitable place for this kind of job was indeed Ghimbav airfield but again, it was a military facilities not an IAR one. That is all. Best regards!

This post has been edited by horia on November 27, 2013 07:47 pm