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> Me-109E3 ARR "Hai Fetito", Trumpeter 1/32
Radub
Posted: February 20, 2013 09:07 am
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QUOTE (Ursulescu @ February 19, 2013 07:31 pm)
Bulgaria, Finland, Germany, and Romania all used the Ar 196.

Here's a link : http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/2-Airp...3/Ar-196A-3.htm

Romania did not use the Ar 196.
Radu
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adicontakt
Posted: February 20, 2013 03:40 pm
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Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR..
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Radub
Posted: February 20, 2013 06:37 pm
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QUOTE (adicontakt @ February 20, 2013 03:40 pm)
Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR..

Do you have any details?
Radu
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Dénes
Posted: February 20, 2013 06:39 pm
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QUOTE (adicontakt @ February 20, 2013 09:40 pm)
Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR..

What is FARR?

Gen. Dénes
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scorpio
Posted: February 20, 2013 07:04 pm
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QUOTE (Dénes @ February 20, 2013 08:39 pm)
QUOTE (adicontakt @ February 20, 2013 09:40 pm)
Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR..

What is FARR?

Gen. Dénes

Maybe, Fortele Aeriene Regale Romane?

Florin
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Dénes
Posted: February 21, 2013 06:18 am
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There was nothing like that.
FARR was actually the acronym for Federatia Aeronautica Regala Romana.

Gen. Dénes
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adicontakt
Posted: February 21, 2013 03:29 pm
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here http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/2-Airp...3/Ar-196A-3.htm
is the description "Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR.. "
i only copy and paste
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Dénes
Posted: February 21, 2013 04:51 pm
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QUOTE (adicontakt @ February 21, 2013 09:29 pm)
i only copy and paste

That's the problem.

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Radub
Posted: February 21, 2013 05:45 pm
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QUOTE (adicontakt @ February 21, 2013 03:29 pm)
here http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/2-Airp...3/Ar-196A-3.htm
is the description "Only 2 Ar.196A were used for test trials in middle of 1943 by FARR.. "
i only copy and paste

Thre isn't one single thing there that is accurate. Ignore it.
Radu
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Ursulescu
Posted: February 23, 2013 12:26 am
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Heller actually issued the King Michael Cross with their kit of it.

Ok...a quick note from the book "Rumanian Air Force - The Prime Decade, 1938-1947" by squadron/signal publications on the Romanian Arado AR 196 A-3 Seaplane P.71 :

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The Arado AR 196's ordered from Germany arrived too late to take part in the final stage of the anti-Soviet war. All but two of these aircraft were reportedly still in their crates when the Red Army occupied the Siutghiol hangers on 8 September 1944. The Soviets seized the new aircraft and shipped them to the USSR without issuing any official documents.


This makes me think of the Polikarpov that Romania captured, repainted, used as a trainer and then crashed.

This post has been edited by Ursulescu on February 23, 2013 01:51 am
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Dénes
Posted: February 23, 2013 08:31 am
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There is no evidence the two aircraft I referred to were actually painted in ARR markings.
The photo I have shows them in German markings in Aug. 1944.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on February 23, 2013 08:32 am
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Radub
Posted: February 23, 2013 09:25 am
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Not only Heller, but also Encore issued that kit with Romanian markings. That does not mean they are right. They made other mistakes also.
There is no record or evidence that any Ar 196 ever wore Romanian markings.
To confuse matters, many "eyewitness reports" of crated planes and hasty repainting appear to confuse the Ar 196 with the He 114. .
Radu
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Ursulescu
Posted: February 28, 2013 12:18 am
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Well Radu, I don't really know. I guess that unless you were there, it's hard to confirm anything.

I was reading in my new IAR 80 book that the Soviets tried to eliminate all records of "Facism" from their history, and to have their newly "Aquired" Romanians admit that they fought on the side of Hitler wasn't a good thing. According to the Soviets, Romanian didn't join WW2 until 1944 when they sided with the Allies (Mainly Russia) to fight fascism. Also, the Soviets were destroying all things facism and many German planes and what-not that were captured went "Under the Axe", as it were.

Even the IAR 80's were scrapped in 1950.

The challenge here is that there are so few pictures of the Arado 196 taken by the Romanians, and the only actual pictures I could find on the web were the typical 3/4 shots with the side markings very hard to decipher if they were iron crosses or King Michael ones. Other pics had people in front of the markings...so go figure.

But besides all of that...if anyone has some of those 1/72nd scale King Michael Crosses that they don't want to use, I could take them off your hands for my own planes. It would sure beat me painting them.
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Radub
Posted: February 28, 2013 08:55 am
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Well, Ursulescu... I know the guy who wrote that book. ;)
Yes, the communsists erased all those mentions of the "unmentionable" from the public mind but they did not destroy the archives. They just denied acces to the information and controlled what was allowed. The book you mentioned is ample proof that the archives still exist and people have access to them now.
However much you refuse to believe it, fact remains that there is no evidence (not yet, despite all efforts) that there were any Ar 196 with Romanian markings.
The argument of "you weren't there" is just silly (to use a mild word). Why? You say that on a forum about Romania in WW2. None of use here were "there". Look around! There is plenty of knowledge here. What you are doing is like saying to a Latin speaker (teacher, scholar, student, whatever) "How can you claim you know Latin? You were not there!"
Radu
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Ursulescu
Posted: March 01, 2013 01:14 am
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Well, here's the fun part Radu,

You are saying one thing and the books and model kit manufacturers and Wiki says another. Fine. Who is correct and who should I believe? The majority, or the minority?

The question is : was there 2 planes or weren't there? 2 out of thousands of planes that Romania had (Or didn't have) in their air force, painted and decorated, at the end of WW2. How can a person properly know, with such a little number, if they had them or not on an official scale?

You may say I'm childish by saying "You weren't there". Maybe it was, but then again, you are saying that everyone that believes the plane had Romanian Markings is totally wrong, even though, for the past 40+ years that the Heller kit was out there, and the countless books published between those times, and whatever, that the plane didn't exist. How does this happen? Were all those people just dreaming, or did the idea of a KMC decorated Arado 196 just hit such a fascination that it became part of some kind of "Mythos" of the Romanian/world war two culture throughout the world?

So basically, you're saying "Pics, or it didn't happen". What's the difference if I say "You don't know, you weren't there"? It's practically the same arguement. The point is, information is missing.

Also, you're saying that "You knew who wrote that book". Well, if you did, then why didn't you stop him from writing that "Erroronious" information. The guy published pictures and drawings of the plane painted in Romanian Colours with the KMC on it. It was published in the 100's of thousands and distributed all over the world.

The point is that people have been documenting that plane in Romanian Markings for years. Are they all wrong?

So what if I personally agree that they had one or if I want to build a model with a KMC on it? Does it make me a bad person? Will you deny me posting the pics?
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