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> Virtutea Aeronautica
Carol I
Posted: November 11, 2003 09:04 am
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The Virtutea Aeronautica Order was, at its creation, second in importance after the Mihai Viteazul Order. It was not made to replace it, just to add a special award for the aviators (not only for officers, like the MV Order). Any aviator, who received the MV Order, also received automatically the VA Order Knight class. In 1938, the order was officially downgraded to a modest position no. 9.


Thank you for your reply. I think that it supports my opinion regarding the real importance of the Aeronautical Virtue Order. Actually this order moved a lot among the other Romanian orders. When it was established, it was the fourth order, just above the Order of the Star, but below the Orders of Carol I, Ferdinand I and Michael the Brave. In 1937, following the inclusion of the personal orders of Carol II it became seventh in the hierarchy. 1938 brought indeed its downgrading to the ninth position (after the Order of the Crown), but in 1941 its importance increased again, both by bringing it back to its original position (before the Order of the Star) and by removing the dynastic orders form the list of “war” orders. I guess it then became again the third or the fourth order in the hierarchy (as I do not know the details of the 1941 decree).

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The Germans were not the first foreign citizens who received the award with swords. There were several French officers who did (their awards were for WWI, just like some Romanian WWI veterans were awarded the wartime version during the inter-war period).


This is a very interesting piece of information. Do you have the names of the officers, both Romanian and French, who received the wartime version of the badge before 1938/1941? It would be great if you would also have the numbers of the awarding decrees.

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The swords were not added in 1938, but from the initial decree.


I understand that you have or at least have seen the original Royal Decree. Can I ask you for a copy? I would be most interested in reading it.

Thank you also for the information regarding the peace badges between September 1940 and June 1941. Do you know if the order became a purely military one after 1941 or 1945?

Thank you also for Mr. Pankey’s e-mail address. I will contact him quite soon.
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Victor
Posted: November 11, 2003 04:39 pm
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As a military order, the Virtutea Aeronautica was second only to the Mihai Viteazul Order and superior to the Steaua Romaniei Order with swords.
The new Law for the organization of the National Orders and Medals was promulgated on 26 November 1937. According to it, the VA Order was still the second military order awarded for actions during combat. The Mihai Viteazul was given for exemplary deeds, while the VA Order was the first in the list for normal deeds.
The Rules for the application of the law from 1938 downgraded it to position no. 9, after the Coroana Romaniei

I do not know if the order became purely military from 1941 onwards.
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Carol I
Posted: November 11, 2003 09:09 pm
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I do not know if the order became purely military from 1941 onwards.


I have just found out that there are some peace badges of the Aeronautical Virtue Order with Mihai's monogram.
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mabadesc
Posted: November 12, 2003 03:41 am
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Can someone please post the order of importance of Romanian military and/or non-military medals during 1941-1945? Let's say, the top 10?

I know MV is first, but what's second?

Thanks.
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Carol I
Posted: November 12, 2003 07:56 am
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Can someone please post the order of importance of Romanian military and/or non-military medals during 1941-1945?


The Romanian national orders between 1941 and 1945 were:

1. The Order of Carol I (it did not have a military division and to my knowledge it has not been awarded during the war, but in theory it could have been awarded to the commander in chief of the Romanian army upon the winning of a significant battle)

2. The Military Order of Michael the Brave

3. The Aeronautical Virtue Order (to my knowledge restored to this position after the overthrow of Carol II)

4. The Order of the Star of Romania (with swords for military awards)

5. The Order of the Crown of Romania (with swords for military awards)

6. Queen Mary’s Cross Order (order reserved for the medical corps or auxiliary personnel)

7. The Order for Cultural Merit (obviously non-military)

8. The Order for Agricultural Merit (obviously non-military; I do not actually know if it was not disbanded after the overthrow of Carol II)

At equal importance with the Order of Carol I has been the Order of Ferdinand I. This order has been officially closed in 1937, but it remained in the hierarchy of national orders.

As Victor said, in 1938 the Aeronautical Virtue Order was ranked after the Order of the Crown of Romania with swords, but according to F. Marinescu it has been restored to the 1930/1937 position in the beginning of the war.

If you would like information about the medals, Decoratii romanesti de razboi: 1860-1947 by I. Safta, R. Jipa, T. Velter and F. Marinescu is the best reference available now. Romania - Decoratii 1859-1991 by S. Catone, N. Serbanescu and D. Bedivan might also be used but it is not as comprehensive as the other.
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Geto-Dacul
Posted: November 12, 2003 02:26 pm
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Carol I wrote :

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8. The Order for Agricultural Merit (obviously non-military; I do not actually know if it was not disbanded after the overthrow of Carol II)


This beautiful green enameled award didn't disapear after the abdication of king Carol II... It continued to exist and was awarded until December 30, 1947 with Michael's royal cipher.

Best regards,

Getu'
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Carol I
Posted: December 04, 2003 09:06 am
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Considering that Carol became widely un-popular by the fall of 1940, I don't think that the awards with his cypher were very popular, and also among Germans.


I have just seen on eBay the 16.12.1941 issue of the French edition of the German propaganda magazine "Der Adler" where there is a photo of some German airmen decorated by Antonescu with the Aeronautical Virtue Order with swords. It can be very clearly seen that at least one of the cases of the awards has Carol II’s monogram. Unfortunately, the photo is too small to see if the monogram is also present on the badges or not. However, this photo indicates that Carol II’s monogram was present in one way or the other on decorations awarded to the Germans in WWII.

Carol I
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: November 19, 2004 09:10 pm
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:o Carol I , your forgot from your list " Serviciul Credincios" , "Virtutea militara" and "Pentru Merit".......

This post has been edited by aviatiadasenzatia on November 19, 2004 09:12 pm
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Carol I
Posted: November 19, 2004 10:53 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Nov 19 2004, 10:10 PM)
:o Carol I , your forgot from your list  " Serviciul Credincios" , "Virtutea militara" and "Pentru Merit".......

I did not forget about the orders you mentioned, but the fact is that neither the Order for Loyal Service nor the Order for Merit were included in the 1941 list of Romanian war orders. Furthermore, to my knowledge there were no civilian awards either during WWII.

As for the Military Virtue, in 1941 there was no Order for Military Virtue (this order appeared only in 2000). Only the Medal for Military Virtue was awarded during WWII. Hence there was no point including it into the list of Romanian national orders between 1941 and 1945.
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: November 23, 2004 06:27 pm
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Carol I partially you're right ( about the period) , but the man asked about medals , not just the orders.
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b737
Posted: November 23, 2004 07:42 pm
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Hi Guys!
there is a book, the "Bible" for romanian orders collector,called "Phaleristik Rumänien" written by Dr Klietmann. This book is written in german and englisch.
This book is the best refference literature for romanian orders and medals.Read it and you will be pleased .

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Carol I
Posted: November 23, 2004 07:51 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Nov 23 2004, 07:27 PM)
Carol I partially you're right ( about the period) , but the man asked about medals , not just the orders.

The list I posted was entitled "The Romanian national orders between 1941 and 1945". Thus it had no intention to include any of the medals of the period (hence neither the Loyal Service, nor the Military Virtue was forgotten).

If we now refer to medals, both the Loyal Service and the Military Virtue were awarded during WWII. But I do not have any knowledge of a "Medal for Merit" during WWII. Do you have a reference to its use during the period?
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: November 23, 2004 08:16 pm
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QUOTE (mabadesc @ Nov 12 2003, 03:41 AM)
Can someone please post the order of importance of Romanian military and/or non-military medals during 1941-1945? Let's say, the top 10?

I know MV is first, but what's second?

Thanks.

I already admited that I didn't pay attention to the period requested. The man asked in general a top 10 , not just for orders. To answer to your question it seems this order "with swords"(For Merit) was awarded by the King until 30th June 1941 . Regards.
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Carol I
Posted: November 23, 2004 08:30 pm
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QUOTE (aviatiadasenzatia @ Nov 23 2004, 09:16 PM)
To answer to your question it seems this order "with swords"(For Merit) was awarded by the King until 30th June 1941.

This is quite interesting as most of the authors state that no awards were presented by King Michael. Do you have the name of the awardees and/or the decree numbers for the awards you mention? It would be interesting to see when and why the war badge of the Order for Merit was awarded during the reign of King Michael. I'm looking forward to hearing you reply.
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aviatiadasenzatia
Posted: November 23, 2004 09:30 pm
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Sorry I don't have any other information available. I t seems the number is unknown for the "For Merit" with swords . BTW what I wrote you I took it from Klietmann's book.
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