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> 1848/49 in Transilvania, about those revolutionary years
ANDREAS
Posted: March 06, 2012 07:30 pm
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Many Hungarian army (Honved and Huszar troops) uniforms used in 1848-49 war can be seen here:
http://www.szabosag.com/pages/category.php...&pictureIndex=8
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21 inf
Posted: March 07, 2012 01:32 pm
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These units from austrian army remained faithfull to House of Austria in summer of 1848:

- Nr. 31 Leiningen Infantry Regiment from Sibiu
-Nr. 51 Carl Ferdinand Infantry Regiment from Cluj (only a few soldiers deserted to hungarians)
-Nr. 53 Leopold Infantry Regiment from Eszek, Hungary
-3rd Batalion from 61 Rukavina Infantry Regiment from Timişoara
-two squadrons from 11th Szekler Hussar Regiment (raised mainly from romanian ranks)
-all Grenzer Regiment, excepting the Szekler ones.

These units from austrian army joined hungarian revolution:
-Nr. 2 Alexander IR
-3rd Batalion from Nr. 19 Schwartzenberg IR from Gyor
-3rd Batalion from Nr. 32 d'Este IR, Pesta
-3rd Batalion from 33 Gyulai IR, Komarom
-Nr. 34 Prinz von Preussen IR from Kassa
-3rd Batalion from Nr. 37 Grossherzog Michael IR from Oradea
-Nr. 39 Dom Miguel IR IR from Debreţin
-3rd Batalion from Nr. 48 Ernest IR from Sopron
-3rd Batalion from Nr. 52 Franz Karl IR from Pecs
-Nr. 60 Wasa IR from Eperjes
-Nr. 62 Tursky IR from Tārgu Mureş
-Nr. 14 Szekler Grenzer Regiment, nr. 1
-Nr. 15 Szekler Grenzer Regiment, nr. 2
-Nr. 1 Kaiser Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 2 Hannover Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 3 Ferdinand Hussar Regiment
-3rd Division from Nr. 4 Alexander Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 6 Wurttemberg Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 9 Nikolaus Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 10 Wilhelm Hussar Regiment
-Nr. 11 Szekler Hussar Regiment (minus 2 squadrons raised from romanian ranks)
-1st and 2nd Batalion from Nr. 16 Zanini IR (raised from italian ranks)
-200 men from Nr. 5 Bervaldo Artillery Regiment (czechs and germans)
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 07, 2012 11:55 pm
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I confirm the accuracy of the informations posted, I also found several books "Geschichte des K.K. 34 Linien-Infanterie-Regiment Prinz Regent von Preussen" Wien, 1860, "Geschichte des K.K. 39 Linien-Infanterie-Regiment Dom Miguel" Innsbruck, 1854, "Geschichte des K.K. 60 Linien-Infanterie-Regiment Gustav Prinz von Wasa" Wien, 1871, where are mentioned, during the period October 1848-August 1849, the subunits (battalions) part of these regiments as fighting on the side of the "Hungarian rebels".
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 08, 2012 10:08 pm
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21inf, in an image I found here:
http://szegedma.hu/images/hazadnakrendulet...llitas01_gs.jpg
is something who looks like a "coasa indreptata" used by romanian militia (and moti fighters) in 1848-49 battles. Did the hungarian militia use this too?
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21 inf
Posted: March 09, 2012 04:03 am
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Yes, Andreas, is a "coasă īndreptată" and yes, hungarian "nemzetorseg" used it, as romanians did (and Poles did in 1830/1831 Uprising, and other nations did).
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 10, 2012 11:15 am
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This hat presented as specific Hungarian troops hunters (and Austrian as well) in 1848-49, in my opinion is different from that worn by German legion 'skull'! How do you find it, 21inf?
http://www.szabosag.com/images/large/sz944.jpg
These reenactors uniforms of the Regiment no. 15 Szekler border guards, shows a cap that I have not seen any where in other images of the era. Romanians border guards suppose that wore it too. Do you know what it is, I have only seen pictures of border guards wearing the well known shako?
http://www.transindex.ro/images/__leo/gale...aleria_2725.jpg
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21 inf
Posted: March 10, 2012 12:58 pm
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The hungarian hunter hat was round toped (cu calota rotunda) and the same was for german legion. The hat you posted looks more like the hat of the wienese legion.

The head gear of szekler regiment reenacting is corect and it is what hungarian are calling "tabori sapka" or "bonet de cazarm" in romanian. The regimental number from the hat was contested by some romanian reenactors but is corectly reproduced by the guys in the image, acording to hungarian sources. What is strange is the epaulette they wear, which was not mentioned in austrian military reglementations; it's role was for not letting the leather belts for ammo pouch and bayonet to fell of from the shoulder of the soldier. Also, in some sources is mentioned the "vallperec" (in hungarian), which is the so called "colac" or "colac de umar" who had the role of not letting the rifle's belt to fell off from the shoulder. The reenactors in the pic dont have it. The colours of the uniform are also corect. They are reproducing the 15 Szekler Border Regiment nr 2 from 1848/49.
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21 inf
Posted: March 10, 2012 07:56 pm
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New info about rockets used in 1848-49 in Transylvania:

The austrian army used the Augustin type rockets. The newly raised hungarian army (Honvedseg) didnt received this kind of weapons from austrians in summer 1848, so the National Comitee for Home Defense (Orszagos Honvedelmi Bizottmany) started research for developing an own rocket type. The researches were ended in december 1848 and the first orders were launched to Oradea ammo factory in January 1849, the first half battery of rockets being sent to transylvanian front in 14th February 1849.

The austrian rockets were ignited with "capsă", the hungarian ones with fuse. The hungarian rocket had a warhead (grenade, hollow round ball, incendiary or ilumination head), the rocket body and the stabiliser (2,8 long meter wooden stick). The weight of austrian rocket was 10,5 kg, the hungarian ones had 4 kg (7 pfund) allowing thus to be loaded by a single man. At Oradea were build 3,6 and 12 pfund hungarian rockets, heavier (siege) ones being imposible to be built due to low weight of the warhead. The results of test in december showed that the 3 pfund rocket launched at 35 degree flight for 2000-2200 paces, the 6 pfund launched at 20 degree flight at 700-800 paces and the hollow round ball warhead launched almost horizontally flight at 400 paces. The stabiliser was united with the rocket only before launching.

The crew was made from 7 men: 1st servant was in charge with aiming, 2nd with loading the rocket, 3rd with ignition. Number 4,5 and 6 were carrying ammo from the ammo cart under the orders of nr 2 servant. Nr 7 was selecting the warhead at the ammo cart, under the orders of nr 1. The rocket launch pads were deployed 6 paces one from other and the ammo cart was deployed 30 paces behind the launch pads.
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 10, 2012 08:02 pm
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21inf, I noticed too the existence of the so called "colac" or "colac de umar" you mention, in this image http://www.szabosag.com/images/large/034sz.jpg shown as well as in the picture you posted of the Totenkopf Legion soldier. Do you know if all infantry bands of the austrian&hungarian army used that in their standard uniforms?
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21 inf
Posted: March 10, 2012 08:14 pm
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For my knowledge, it was not used by austrians in 1848/49 period and I didnt found it for hungarian honveds as a regulation. Maybe it was intented by hungarians to have it, but not all managed to sew it on their uniforms. In my sources the uniforms of szekler border regiments are described without "colac", but the drawings show it...

The Totenkopf Legion was not an austrian unit, but a german one, raised in Rhine region, who fight for hungarians. I am not familiar with german uniforms and I dont know if german legion was equiped by hungarians or not.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on March 10, 2012 08:16 pm
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 11, 2012 10:26 am
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An interesting history about the origin of the Skull and Bones symbol of the German Legion :
QUOTE
The origins trace back to the days of the Napoleonistic wars and the Deutsche Freiheitskriege. The Husaren of Prussia (Brunswick, then closely together) became the first weares of the symbol, who fought the French opression. The symbol of the Totenkopf was a sign of the German struggle, and their devotion to their cause, as well as hatred for the French. The 'Schwarze Herzog' Friedrich Wilhelm (1771-1815) founded the 'Schwarze Legion', initially in Austrian service, 1809, as most German states had already been overrun by the French. Following Austria's defeat, the Black Legion refused to surrender and fought it's way to the coast through Westfalen (Halle), with the Black Duke at the head of his men. They were evacuated by British ships at the Wesel, where they would go to Britain to rest and refit. In 1813-14 he would return to Germany, restore his state and continue the fight against the French. During the battle at Waterloo, it were the Totenkopfhusaren who countered the first mass cavalry charges of the French at around 15:00. Friedrich Wilhelm was shot in battle while leading his Korps at the battle of Quatre-bras.

The symbol was lated adopted by various cavalry regiments, and later by the Deutsche Panzerwaffe and the SS, who regarded themselves as the torch bearers of those same ideals as their ancestors fought for; independence and self-conscienceness. The symbol itself remained the same, a skull with crossed bones.

I guess the German Legion who fought on the side of Hungarians in 1848-49 had the origin of his name and symbol (Skull and Bones) in the history above.
Source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8841
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ANDREAS
Posted: March 11, 2012 11:20 am
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A nice picture of the foreign legions who who fought on the side of Hungarians in 1848-49 war can be seen here:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q86/Nos...7/knoe09_54.jpg
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21 inf
Posted: March 11, 2012 11:45 am
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Andreas, thanks for the last image! It is very nice and well coloured! And it seems that the german legionaire in the image had at the collar 2 stars (some hungarian sources said there were a star on each side of the collar, others that it had skulls instead of stars).
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ANDREAS
Posted: April 07, 2012 01:49 pm
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In this post http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...indpost&p=84469 I was mentioning the punitive expedition from late october -early november 1848 led by Major Gal Laszlo, and because recently I read in the book "Procese politice antiromanesti care au zguduit Transilvania in toamna anului 1848" written by Ioan Chindris and Gelu Neamtu (Anti-Romanian political processes that shattered Transylvania in the autumn of 1848) and found some relevant data, I say these:
- the military expedition led by Major Gal with his detachment from Arad was probably previously coordinated with another detachment went from Oradea. The Gal-led detachment advanced on the direction Siria -Pancota -Tarnova -Buteni -Gurahont -Gura Vaii -Varfurile while the Oradea detachment advanced on the direction Beius -Rieni -Stei -Vascau -Grosi -Varfurile. The detachment from Arad consisted of the newly established 29. honved battalion and also and irregular troops (militia) from Arad and Zarand counties while the detachment from Oradea consisted of the newly established 27. honved battalion and irregular troops (militia) from Bihor county. It is noted that they (the hungarian authorities) succeed to complete the arming with military firearms ("french flintlock muskets" as was then known the austrian flintocks M1798, M1807 or M1828, who were inspired by the french rifles from the napoleonean era) the two honved battalions, while the hungarian militia accompanying them was armed mostly with spears and war scythes! The Gal-led expedition has a special significance for us, as victories scored by them in the battles from Poienari (7 november), Tarnava (8 november) and Brad (10 november) seriously affected the (Buteanu-led) Zarand Legion, and especially the control over the Halmagiu -Baia de Cris -Brad area, which was occupied almost without opposition by the hungarian forces later, in early 1849! We should also not forget that almost all offensive actions of the hungarian forces against romanian forces from the Apuseni Mountains in spring-summer 1849 started from the Brad region! The documents published in the book, translated into Romanian, evoke a state of insufficient organization of Romanian forces, surprised by the hungarian military action, with the consequences above-mentioned!

This post has been edited by ANDREAS on April 07, 2012 01:55 pm
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21 inf
Posted: April 07, 2012 03:46 pm
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Andreas, search on enciclopediaromaniei.ro after Lupta de la Poienari http://enciclopediaromaniei.ro/wiki/Lupta_...Poienari_(1848) and other fights against Gal Laszlo
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