Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Czech weapons internment in Romania in 1939
Marcel Kares
Posted: February 05, 2007 10:39 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 12
Member No.: 1299
Joined: January 30, 2007



Czech weapons internment in Romania in March of 1939.

Czech (Czechoslovak) weapons / arms and military equipments confiscated in Romania after withdrawing of the Czech Army from Ruthenia (in this easter part of pre war Czechoslovakia were dislocated only very small parts of Czech Army) to Romania on the 16/17th March 1939.

One part of Czech Army from Ruthenia withdrawined to Romania after four days hardly fights against Hungary Army (second part withdrawined to Slovakia). This heroic war was for Czech soldiers very hard because Czechoslovak Republic was occupied on 15. March by Germany (Protectorate Bohmen und Mahren and free Slovak country).

Czech soldiers handed theirs equipments over the Romanian authorities:

- Probably 7.000 rifles vz. 24 and vz. 33 (very well Czech version of Mauser rifle for Czech bullets 7,92 mm) + 100.000 of ammunition for small arms.
- probably 1000 revolvers
- 36 heavy machine guns Schwarzlose vz. 24
- 150 light machine guns ZB vz. 26
- 2 light mine-throwers Skoda vz. 36 (calibre 80 mm)
- 4 antitank guns Skoda A-3 and Skoda A-4 (Czech name KPUV vz. 34 and vz. 37, calibre 37 mm)
- 8 howitzers Skoda 10,5 cm (Czech name 10,5 cm vz. 14/19)
- 5 personals cars
- 150 trucks
- 5 buses
- 4 automobile cisterns
- 100 horses and mules
- 200 bycicles
- 3 armoured cars OA vz. 27
- 9 armoured cars OA vz. 30
- 3 tankettes Praga P-I, Czech military name Tancik vz. 33 (tankette Mo. 33)
- 1 aircraft Letov S-328
- and another military equipment: artillery amunition, helmets, uniforms, spare parts, sappers materials, military kitchens, bayonets and more another equipments. All price hereof materials was about 25–30 millions pre war Czech Crowns (very great amount of money).
For completely example, Germany captured in Czechoslovakia on March of 15 this military materials (here is state only small parts of all materials Czech Army, numbers aren t quite exactly): 432 tanks, 65 armoured cars, 6 armoured trains, 1.630 planes, 501 anti-aircraft guns, 2.175 artillery guns, 785 mine-throwers, 43.870 mashine guns, 114.000 revorvers, 1.090.000 rifles, 3 millions pcs. of artillery ammunition, one milliard pcs. of ammunition for small arms, all war-ship of Czechoslovak Danube fleet, 217.128 horses, 25.349 cars, 720 buses, cca 5000 motorcycles, all Czech fortes and another military equipment (small part of the hereof equipment stayed in free Slovak state). That was the bigest capitulation in the world and in the world history.

Skoda PA-III, Czech military name OA vz. 27 (armoured car Mo. 27) – probably Czech registration no. 13.350, 13.351 and 13.352. The Romanian Army used these armoured cars Skoda OA vz. 27 for guard/patrol duties. Two of these armoured cars were destroyed in Ploiesti (in service garage for trucks Skoda) on summer 1944 during American bombing.

Tatra T-72 – Czech military name OA vz. 30 (armoured car Mo. 30) – Czech registration no. 13.330, 13.380, 13.382, 13.386, 13.387, 13.389, 13.390, 13.392 and 13.395. The Romanian Army used these confiscate armoured car Tatra OA vz.30 for recognizace (scout) and connective duties. Some of these armoured cars even served reputedly in Bucharest battalion / in the personal guard of the Romanian dictator general Antonescu (Batalionul de garda al maresalului Antonescu or Regimentul de garda al Conducatorului Statului). In the years 1942-1943 were these armoured car serviced in service garage for trucks Tatra in Ploiesti. Three armoured cars Tatra OA vz.30 was destroyed during American bombing of Ploiesti on summer 1944.

Please I have four questions for you.
1) Do somebody have photos of the Czech armoured cars OA vz. 27 , OA vz. 30 and tankettes Tancik vz. 33 in Romanian Army or next exactly information?
2) And second question. Do somebody have photos and information about Czech planes Avia Ba-122, Letov S-328 and Zlin Z-XII in Romania before war and during war? Did Romanian Air force use fighters Avia B-534 for towing DFS gliders? Is this information old mistake or not. My last information are that Romanian Air force used for towing DFS gliders IAR 37/38/39 planes.
3) Thirst question. Do somebody have photos and information about Czech police armoured car Praga TNSPE in Romania? Czech firm CKD-Praga sold these police armoured car to Romania in 1934-1937, three TNSPE-34 and 4 TNSPE-37.
4) And last question. Do somebody have photos and information about Czech riverine armoured minelayers OMm 35 and OMm 36? On March 1939 captured these modern riverine minelayers Germany (Germany name FM-1 and FM-2) and in 1940 were sold these very good riverine ships to Romania. After capitulation of Romanian Danube division on 26. August 1944 handed to Soviet Danube fleet.

My private e-mail address is: mkares@seznam.cz.

Thanks for yours possible answers and help.

Cheers, Marcel.

P. S. Please excuse my poor English.



PMEmail Poster
Top
Iamandi
Posted: February 06, 2007 11:51 am
Quote Post


General de divizie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1386
Member No.: 319
Joined: August 04, 2004



3. In romanian magasine Modelism International i read one article about 2-3 of this armoured cars in use of Romanian interior forces. If i remeber right, at least one of them was used for fire fighting, because of the water jet system on board - destinated to fught against civilian manifestators. I have this issue of Model;ism, but it is at my mother's home so, but my visits are at 2-3 months.. and i can forget about that when i will go.
2. No informations about b-534 (nice plane, by the way) in RoAF. Bulgarians have it. But, you are right, IAR37 to 39 towed DFS gliders. I think Ju-52 also.

Iama
PMUsers WebsiteYahoo
Top
sid guttridge
Posted: February 06, 2007 03:10 pm
Quote Post


Locotenent colonel
*

Group: Members
Posts: 861
Member No.: 591
Joined: May 19, 2005



Hi Marcel,

The Czechoslovak Air Force was able to fly out westwards and so did not have to send any aircraft to Romania. (The Bulgarians later received ex-Czech Avia B534s off the Germans, but the Romanians did not get any).

The Czechoslovak 12th Infantry Division was also largely able to retreat into Slovakia.

The weaponry taken into Romania from Ruthenia probably came largely from two sources:

1) The Czechoslovak Border Guard, which had the armoured cars.

2) The Sich Guard of the Ukrainian Nationalist government of Ruthenia, which had only infantry weapons up to heavy machine gun size.

There does exist at least exist one photo of an older armoured car used by the Bucharest police during the Iron Guard uprising of January 1941. Whether this was Czech, I do not know.

Cheers,

Sid.



.
PMEmail Poster
Top
BG7M
Posted: February 06, 2007 06:56 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 47
Member No.: 1042
Joined: September 05, 2006



I remember I saw a photo of an police armoured car with water gun in "Almanachul Bucurestilor" 1939, but unfortunately I don't have the almanach anymore. It is now in Germany, useful in research of old romanian companies whose emitted tokens in 1930's-1940's, made by Mr. E Schaeffer - the author of the Romanian tokens catalogue....
It was a simple photo, without the brand name of the car, only: "the new Bucharest's police armoured car"...
PMEmail Poster
Top
Victor
Posted: February 07, 2007 06:57 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4318
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



Most likely it was a TNSPE.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Kepi
Posted: February 07, 2007 11:50 am
Quote Post


Sublocotenent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 432
Member No.: 680
Joined: September 28, 2005



A retouched image of a police armoured water tank, used against riots. In 1936 the police had only two such vehicles. The water canon of these armoured cars had 100 meters range, and a very high pressure that could annihilate any hostile demonstrator. For some aggressive demonstrations the vehicles were also equipped with two HMGs and gas launchers.
It seems that every Public Guardians detachment was equipped with a group of motor-machineguns (“moto-mitraliere”). It’s not very clear how these motor-machineguns looked like: motorbikes with side-car or armoured automobiles.

(IMG:http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2274/politie1ape6.jpg)

The photo was taken from the book: Colonel Gabriel Marinescu, Prof. Ion Modreanu, Const. Buruiana, Aspecte din viata politiei capitalei, ed. Eminescu SA, Bucuresti 1936 (courtesy National Military Museum Library).
PMEmail Poster
Top
Kepi
Posted: February 07, 2007 05:15 pm
Quote Post


Sublocotenent
*

Group: Members
Posts: 432
Member No.: 680
Joined: September 28, 2005



Another image of a Praga TNSPE police vehicle

(IMG:http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/6963/pragatnspeug8.jpg)

(http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/romania/romania-other.html
PMEmail Poster
Top
sample
Posted: March 14, 2007 10:24 am
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 17
Member No.: 622
Joined: July 09, 2005



it is a bit off topic, but here

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/czechoslovakia...led_guns/s1.asp

there is a quotte: "Exported to Romania and Yugoslavia and not used in Czechoslovakian Army."

I haven't seen any other information about this sefl-propelled gun used in Romania

regards

This post has been edited by sample on March 14, 2007 10:25 am
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteAOL
Top
JiriTintera
Posted: July 29, 2007 06:44 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 23
Member No.: 1327
Joined: February 27, 2007



PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0823 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]