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> Bf 109 G-2 "yellow 14" - Monika, Lt. Dragos Stinghe mount on west front
Dénes
Posted: November 22, 2005 02:37 am
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QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Nov 22 2005, 05:00 AM)
As for the white square on the wings.  If  I will go back in time as the " Painter"  i will  paint all the german markings  with the same paint( white) because is more practic.

Using white paint for cover old markings was not a common issue. It was rarely used. Most of the coverings were done with dark color (green or dark grey)

I hopped on my time machine and snapped a photo so the airplane's wings would be visible. It turned out that the Rumanian mechanics didn't even bother to paint over the Balkenkreuz on the wings with the same white paint! They simply painted the ARR roundels besides the Luftwaffe markings, covering it only partially (see scan).

It's yet another fine example why logic doesn't always work when dealing with history. It's the documents, photos and other primary sources one should base his judgement upon...

Gen. Dénes

(IMG:http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/5720/bf109g2yellow14arr34nr.jpg)

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 22, 2005 02:39 am
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Dénes
Posted: November 22, 2005 02:42 am
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Here is another photo of the well-worn 'Yellow 14' with the same mystery pilot riding on it.
It turns out that he is squadron commander Lt. av. Mircea "Shoto" Teodorescu of Gr. 1 vân.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. By looking at this photo, I am wondering if the airplane's fuselage, around and under the cockpit, was overpainted with light grey or white since the photo with Stinghe in the cockpit was taken...

(IMG:http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7707/bf109g2yellow14arr23si.jpg)

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 22, 2005 02:45 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 06:47 am
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QUOTE
Cantacuzino,
First and foremost, if you cannot handle valid criticism, don't post


I said I wanted an onest debate not simple eye critics (easy for 4 years old boy).
I posted this color profile for some time and you didn't contribute from the begin with data and info (that you allready have it).
You just waited that sombody else was interested and asked questions about more details for the plane( not for the artwork) and you start critics the artwork instead to tell Radu that you have more pictures and data for this Bf-109 that will help him for the next project. This kind of behavior it's not an onest issue.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 22, 2005 03:20 pm
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 06:53 am
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QUOTE
Posted on Nov 22 2005, 02:37 AM
It's yet another fine example why logic doesn't always work when dealing with history. It's the documents, photos and other primary sources one should base his judgement upon...

Gen. Dénes


QUOTE
  Posted: Nov 21 2005, 06:01 PM
Very interesting pictures. I have the following questions:
- And finally, the roundel appears to be painted on a white square. Were the wing roundels painted on white squares as well?
Radu



If somebody keep in safe place the proof (the picture) and don't like to show them from the begin . :D

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 22, 2005 07:00 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 07:16 am
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Nov 22 2005, 03:44 AM)
I strongly advice to choose one of the best color profile of romanian Bf 109 G  the "yellow 3". Unfortunetly I don't remember the source (Mayby Osprey ?).    It's very well documented and represent 100% the real plane. 


If you have any comments regarding this profile, open a new thread, don't mix up stuff here.

I will hapily convey your criticism to John Weal, the profile's author, along with your name and e-mail address, so he can reply to you directly if he wishes so.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. I see that the profile of Yellow 14 published above was created by Dan Melinte, so please convey my corrections to him. 


I just offer Radu another alternative for better color profile artworks for romanian Bf 109G on west front based on the fact that author of the book was better historically documented. The color profile painter use the info given by the book author and not from the editor.
Anyway i will remove and start a new thread for this nice "yellow 3 " with an onest debate for the artwork using valid proof ( could be an alternative for Radu future project)
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 07:26 am
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QUOTE
Third, I don't believe in colour artwork. Anyone can draw up pretty pictures, which may or may not be historically accurate (usually not) and can generate endless debates.


Believe it or not. Like it or not. It's a part from a modeller life. ;)

The historically part some times is boring with out the flashing color artworks of the wonderfull artists like Watanabe, James Dietz, Thiery Decker and so on. Allways the dream of a modeller start with pilot stories and nice color profiles. :)

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 22, 2005 08:31 am
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Radub
Posted: November 22, 2005 09:37 am
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Thanks Canatcuzino and Denes, the photos you added in the meantime are excellent.
After looking at the photos, I noticed that "something is going on" around the nose panels: there are obvious colour differences demarcated by the panel lines. Engine cowls have a mottle pattern that is different from that of the fuselage. The panel above the gun breeches appears to be one single dark colour and again does not match any of the adjacent colurs. I believe that these were cannibalised from another airframe. The picture that shows the upper surfaces is interesting too: Note the right wingtip painted white. Note that the left wing flap appears to be a replacement. This is a Frankenschmitt!
I love it.
Radu
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 02:52 pm
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QUOTE
Note the right wingtip painted white


Both wingtips should be painted in white as ID markings used on west front.
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 03:03 pm
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QUOTE
This is a Frankenschmitt!


Probably it's no more a G-2 :P now it turn out to be an upgraded version to G-4 standard and found in documents as "Frankenschmitt 109 G-4" ( with new wires and switches from canibalised G-4 and G-6) :lol:
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 03:09 pm
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Ufzz. Rolf Olejniczak 9/JG77.
Source " La chasse de jour allemande en Roumanie" Jean Louis Roba-Erich Mombeek.

(IMG:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4348/oleznikov4sn.jpg)



This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 22, 2005 11:50 pm
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Radub
Posted: November 22, 2005 04:48 pm
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QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Nov 22 2005, 02:52 PM)
Both wingtips should be painted in white as ID markings used on west front.

Hi Cantacuzino,
You are right of course. What I meant was that only the wingtip was painted white - the white segment does not stretch over some of the aileron as was the norm. Pity none of the photos show the underside of the wingtip so that we could see how far inboard the white element stretches.
Radu
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 11:42 pm
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Nov 22 2005, 02:52 PM)
Both wingtips should be painted in white as ID markings used on west front. 


Hi Cantacuzino,
You are right of course. What I meant was that only the wingtip was painted white - the white segment does not stretch over some of the aileron as was the norm. Pity none of the photos show the underside of the wingtip so that we could see how far inboard the white element stretches.
Radu


White segment streching over some aileron was not standard for all Bf 109 on west front. Many of them had only the wing tips painted in white (like "yellow 14")

Below you have more examples of only wingtips painted white. Courtesy D.M coll.
(IMG:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6527/1601eh.jpg)
(IMG:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4953/untitled25zu.jpg)
(IMG:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8958/poza19zk.jpg)
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 22, 2005 11:54 pm
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QUOTE
The name written under cockpit was probably the girl friend, wife or petdog of ex 9/JG 77 pilot who flew this particular Bf-109.


The name written under the cokpit is "Monika" the girlfriend of Rolf Olejnikczak.

(IMG:http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2377/3copy6kj.jpg)
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 23, 2005 12:03 am
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QUOTE
'Yellow 14' was in fact a G-2 previously flown by 9./JG 77. It crash landed SE of Mizil in January 1944 and was sent at ASAM-Pipera to be repaired.


"Yellow 14" was in fact an ex 9/JG77 Bf-109 G-2 "Yellow 10" wnr.14638 damaged 40% in a crash landing S.E. Mizil on 18 january '44. The plane was the personal mount of Rolf Olejniczak with his girl friend name "Monika" written under the cokpit. After repair in ASAM it was delivered to romanian units.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 23, 2005 11:16 am
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Cantacuzino
Posted: November 23, 2005 12:09 am
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QUOTE
"Yellow 14" was in fact an ex 9/JG77 Bf-109 G-2 "Yellow 10" wnr.14638 damaged 40% in a crash landing S.E. Mizil on 18 january '44. The plane was the personal mount of Rolf Olejniczak with his girl friend name "Monica" written under the cokpit. After repair in ASAM it was delivered to romanian units.


And the story of why Rolf Olejniczak divorced "Monika" and give it to romanians for riding her :P

Source : " La chasse de jour allemande en Roumanie" Jean Louis Roba-Erich Mombeek.

(IMG:http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8913/monika4yl.jpg)

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on November 23, 2005 08:08 am
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