The naval engagement of 26 June 1941

Well he is right in one aspect. Both the Titanic and the Moskva sank.

Well, in my oppinion the article is more than decent (far above the average, in the "generalist" press at least), offers all the significant alternatives for the sinking of Moskva, and the author also asked for a historian (Mihai Retegan) oppinion. Also, the quotation "Am scufundat Titanicul Marii Negre" should be taken as WE (as in the RR Navy - not I) sunk the Titanic of the Black Sea" - he never claims such an accomplishment for himself.

I think showing a little respect for a 87 years old war veteran with such a career record (and who actually served on Regina Maria as a cadet navy officer in June 1941) won't hurt at all. Other military history enthusiasts would be glad to have him alive and well, and would rush to interview him about his memoirs and experiences in the Royal Navy. But apparently the military pilots are privileged on this site - a thing which is not bad in itself.

This post has been edited by Agarici on August 04, 2010 11:52 am

It's not about disrespect towards the veteran, but a military history article should be treated a bit more serious, at least by the reporter. Because if he would have done some research on the subject, he would have discovered that there were ships in the Soviet Black Sea Fleet much bigger than Moskva, which was merely a destroyer: cruisers, heavy cruisers and even a battleship.

Treating the subject in a manner like this, omitting some facts and presenting only those favorable, glittering gift wrapped, is not what I would like to see, for the sake of historical accuracy.

Reviewing the article, my impression is that it was edited since I've first read it

Dragos, I entirely agree with you about the title (Moskva being labeled "the Titanic of the Black Sea"), but apart from that I’ve found the article absolutely decent. That’s why, in my opinion, the title was chosen not out of ignorance but rather for drawing attention/sensationalism. I agree that this it a bad habit (over present in the Romanian media, but not only here), but perhaps up to a certain point is necessary when such a specialized article is included in a general/mainstream daily newspaper. But again, I agree with the point you’ve made.

As for the article being edited post-publishing, I don’t think it’s possible (not technically speaking, of course - but perhaps legally or customary, if there are such things in the Romanian media), even in an online edition. Moreover, I don’t think they would make such an effort for a marginal (from the newspaper perspective) material.

http://www.adevarul.ro/locale/constanta/Co..._284971628.html

http://www.ziuaconstanta.ro/rubrici/docume...2moskva%22.html

http://www.rri.ro/arh-art.shtml?lang=2&sec=40&art=1156

I don't understand the markings on the map. Could you help me deciper these.

What do the triangles and ship markings mean.

Many thanks

White bugs = romanians, black bugs = soviets. Triangles = destroyers. 2 = two. Other ship markings = other ships, maybe groups.
From the story, at Midia were Regele Ferdinand and Marasesti, at Agigea-Eforie were Regina Maria and Marasti.
From the story and the map :
04.12-04.15 Marasti with artilery fire
04.19-04.23 Regina Maria with artilery fire.

I agree.

Unfortunately nowadays... there is little respect.

Living this new wonderful era of information, with the internet and all, makes some people way too intelligent for their own sake I would say.

The article was decent.

From a text of Leonid Poritskyy : Raid over Constanza. June '41 :

...About the statement of mine barage on the way to Constanza, the Romanian Government declared on Feb.20th, 1941. From official sources, it was known that their border was taken out at 17 miles from coast and the passage was known only by few persons…
The two leaders, before going to sea, in them (both sides) were installed shield-protectors designed to protect the ships from anchored mines. Because their speed was sometime to high and also, in the mine barage were anti mine-sweeping devices, 3 shield-protectors got lost...
The plan was to destroy the petro-tanks in Constanza and to investigate the defence of the navy base. That means at The Soviet Tch.Fl. they missed data and studyes about the opponent... Air bombardements were also planiffied...
Also because of damages, the speed of Harkov dropped to slow and the treath was great. But the crew repulsed the attack of enemy planes, shot down two of them, and at 05.55 came out from under the fire of German batteries....
Soon after that, the soviet forces received order to return to their bases. On the way back, Harkov repeatedly, but unsuccessfully, was attacked by small groups of aircraft...
After 90 min of the attack, only 6 SB soviet planes with bombs over Constanza...
In the port of Constanza the petro-tanks remained whole...
In his war diary, the german commander Gadow has make the following record on Jun.26th : „We need to recognise that the bombardment of the coast by the Soviet destroyers was very courageous. As a result of this bombardment, a fire has arisen in the oil storage in the area of the station Pallas and some ammunition has been set in fire. This is the fine proof of the success of the bombardment. Besides, as result of the damage of the rail, the way Bucharest-Constanza has been interrupted. In connection with the big damages of the station, there were difficulties with the delivery of fuel for the Romanian Navy, the ways of delivery beeing destroyed”...
With regard to the problem of shelling Constanta, in the opinion of Rear Adm. Vladimirsky, it should carry not by leaders but using for this purpose cruisers with their 180-mm guns (maximum range 206 cables). Cruisers were well trainedin for carefully shooting over the beach and could, by air-guidance, to cause powerful blow to the coastal targets, firing from a safe for mine area. Of course, in this case had to take risks. Mainly an airplane located between cruisers and port. Another opportunity to fire long-range was not...

This post has been edited by Petre on September 30, 2010 09:24 pm

What are the likey aircraft to have attacked the Soviet Destroyers?

I know the Hurricanes were positioned near Constanta.

I tried to find some wiews from the prisoniers taken from destrozer Moskva. I find only the coverage made by Constantin Virgil Gheorghiu, war reporter in ww2. He wrote many books about his coverages in ww2, like "Ard malurile Nistrului" (4 editions in 1942), "Am luptat in Crimeea", "Cu submarinul Delfinul la atacul Sevastopolului". After 23 August 1944, he remains in West, and emigrated to Canada. Here he wrote other books, must known "25th hour", that was put onto movie, with Anthony Quinn in main role. Here is his coverage about the prisoniers take from destrozer Moskva. His entire book about his reports on the Bassarabian front, "Ard malurile Nistrului", can be downloaded from here:
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/carti/cat07.htm

Here is the part about the Moskva prisoniers:

And so on. The report is too long, if you want to see it all, follow the link.

I don't know if my last post could be put on the forum, because it was too long. I'll put here again, with some cuts.

I tried to find some wiews from the prisoniers taken from destrozer Moskva. I find only the coverage made by Constantin Virgil Gheorghiu, war reporter in ww2. He wrote many books about his coverages in ww2, like "Ard malurile Nistrului" (4 editions in 1942), "Am luptat in Crimeea", "Cu submarinul Delfinul la atacul Sevastopolului". After 23 August 1944, he remains in West, and emigrated to Canada. Here he wrote other books, must known "25th hour", that was put onto movie, with Anthony Quinn in main role. Here is his coverage about the prisoniers take from destrozer Moskva. His entire book about his reports on the Bassarabian front, "Ard malurile Nistrului", can be downloaded from here:
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/carti/cat07.htm

Here is the part about the Moskva prisoniers:

And so on. The report is too long, if you want to see it all, follow the link.

Source - Net.
A report about the circumstances of the loose of the soviet destroyer-leader "Moskva"

This post has been edited by Petre on January 21, 2015 07:20 pm

De-classified documents, first published in early 90's.
A Report on the raid-operation with ships of Black Sea Fleet Detachment of light forces against the harbor-base of Constanta, night of june 25-26, 1941. (selections)

This post has been edited by Petre on March 21, 2015 03:03 pm

From the web-site http://www.lider-moskva.ru/, (it seems it is a book, I'm not sure) The page : Raid on Constantsa / How it was prepared the raid

This post has been edited by Petre on May 02, 2015 07:16 pm