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WorldWar2.ro Forum > Eastern Front (1941-1944) > Commando action at Odessa


Posted by: dragos October 11, 2005 10:39 am
According to Krylov's memoirs:

QUOTE
I believe it was on August 10 [1941] that Army HQ was informed by telephone that a German transport plane had suddenly landed on the civil airfield. An officer and 15 men had jumped out of the plane and started firing submachine guns in all directions in an attempt to capture the airfield, apparently in order to make way for airborne troops. The men of anti-paratroop battalion guarding the airfield reacted swiftly and finished them off.


Does anyone have more information on this?

Posted by: Dénes October 11, 2005 05:31 pm
I just received confirmation from my Ukrainian contact about this unsuccessful German commando action against Odessa's civilian airfield. It indeed happened on 10 Aug. 1941. The airplane (probably a Junkers Ju 52) was captured.

There was an attempt of an airborne assault on the previous day. German paratroopers - reportedly wearing Red Army uniforms - were dropped in Sverdlovo
area. This action was also neutralized by Soviet forces.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: dragos October 11, 2005 06:36 pm
Thanks Denes.

I can also confirm the other event:

QUOTE
A day earlier, near Ajalyk Estuary, where our units were withdrawing to new lines, the nazis had landed about a company of paratroopers in Red Army uniform. This sally was also nipped in the bud by our cavalrymen who happened to be nearby.

Posted by: sid guttridge October 19, 2005 10:47 am
Hi Guys,

About thirty years ago I bought a book called "Assault from Within" by (I think) Georg von Konrat.

It claimed to be the memoirs of a German Brandenberger special operations trooper.

As far as I remember, it contained no reference to this particular story. However, it did mention a land operation by Brandenbergers against Odessa in 1941. However, I have always dismissed it as fiction, not least because it made absolutely no mention of Romanians being present at Odessa and because it mentioned the use of Tiger tanks in 1941, which is at least a year too early.

Personally, I shall take a lot of convincing that either story is true. Firstly, I have never seen any reference to it in any book on the Brandenbergers - and these are sometimes full of very fanciful tales for which there is no evidence.

Secondly, I don't think it likely that the Germans would use their special forces in an area where they had no ground of their own to support them.

Thirdly, no history of the German paratroops I have seen seems to mention plans for such an operation. At this time German parachute forces were recovering from their mauling on Crete less than three months before. (However, I think the 22nd Air Landing Division was in the area operating in a conventional ground role with Manstein's 11th Army at about this time, so it might be worthwhile checking a history of this formation. It used gliders, not parachutes.)

Cheers,

Sid.

Posted by: Dénes June 10, 2007 06:10 pm
I would like to revive this old thread.

If anyone has further information on the purported German landing operation(s) nearby Odessa, please let us know. Infirming the story is welcomed, too.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: MaxFax June 10, 2007 06:58 pm
QUOTE (dragos @ October 11, 2005 12:39 pm)
According to Krylov's memoirs:


Could you give me more details about this memoirs ?!
Full title, publishing house, ~price, etc.
Thanks !

Posted by: Alexei2102 June 10, 2007 08:55 pm
QUOTE (sid guttridge @ October 19, 2005 10:47 am)
Hi Guys,

About thirty years ago I bought a book called "Assault from Within" by (I think) Georg von Konrat.

It claimed to be the memoirs of a German Brandenberger special operations trooper.

As far as I remember, it contained no reference to this particular story. However, it did mention a land operation by Brandenbergers against Odessa in 1941. However, I have always dismissed it as fiction, not least because it made absolutely no mention of Romanians being present at Odessa and because it mentioned the use of Tiger tanks in 1941, which is at least a year too early.

Personally, I shall take a lot of convincing that either story is true. Firstly, I have never seen any reference to it in any book on the Brandenbergers - and these are sometimes full of very fanciful tales for which there is no evidence.

Secondly, I don't think it likely that the Germans would use their special forces in an area where they had no ground of their own to support them.

Thirdly, no history of the German paratroops I have seen seems to mention plans for such an operation. At this time German parachute forces were recovering from their mauling on Crete less than three months before. (However, I think the 22nd Air Landing Division was in the area operating in a conventional ground role with Manstein's 11th Army at about this time, so it might be worthwhile checking a history of this formation. It used gliders, not parachutes.)

Cheers,

Sid.

1. The FJ supposition is entirely correct. At the early stages of Barbarossa only the Brandenburg FJ Platoon operated. On June 25th 1941, during the battte to capture Lemberg, the parachute platoon under Leutnant Lutke carried out Operation Bogdanov, jumping to secure two railway bridges on the Lida-Molodechno line.

I have no idea, and no proof of a FJ Airborne operation during August 41, performed by regular FJR troops. They were all busy after Kreta, as Sid said, and preparing for the invasion of Malta, an operation that never took place.

Regarding the second supposition, perhaps someone with more proper knowledge of the glider borne ops could shed some more knowledge. The 22nd LLSturm Rgt is not my area of expertise.

2. Regarding the early Brandenburger ops, in the first stages of Barbarossa, I submit to you below 2 pages from a WP. As you can see, the 7th Kompanie, before being resent to Yugoslavia, has been active in breaking the frontline for the Army Group North, during its breakthrough for the Baltic states.

Have an excellent evening.

Cheers,

Al

Pic 1 - Brandenburger Units

user posted image

Pic 2 - Brandenburger actions. Please note that these were inputed in pen/pencil. That means that the ops were designated at unit level, and not carrying the official name (if it would have been so, it would have been pasted sheets of typed paper, properly stamped at company level).

user posted image

Posted by: Dénes June 10, 2007 09:20 pm
QUOTE (MaxFax @ June 11, 2007 12:58 am)
QUOTE (dragos @ October 11, 2005 12:39 pm)
According to Krylov's memoirs:


Could you give me more details about this memoirs ?!
Full title, publishing house, ~price, etc.
Thanks !

Marshal N. Krylov, 'Glory Eternal. Defence of Odessa 1941', Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1972.

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: Dénes June 10, 2007 09:30 pm
I've just learned that there was a failed airborne operation in the Odessa area on Sept. 28, 1941. Four Ju 52s of KGr.z.b.V. 104, towing DFS 230 assault gliders, were caught by Soviet fighters and shot down one by one.
Does anyone know any further details?

Gen. Dénes

Posted by: sid guttridge August 31, 2007 10:11 am
Hi Denes,

Given that the Odessa perimeter was relatively small and the few Soviet fighters there were tasked defensively, one wonders if there would have been time to spot, intercept and down four Ju52s before they dropped their loads.

Furthermore, given that the Romanian besiegers had been on the defensive since the Soviet landing a week before, one wonders what a few dozen paratroopers could usefully have done inside the Soviet perimeter without obvious outside support.

I remain sceptical, but you seem to have found a potentially verifiable source for the Ju52 losses, so I shall follow this with interest.

Cheers,

Sid.

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