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| WorldWar2.ro Forum > Awards & Badges > Reproductions |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 01, 2006 01:59 pm |
| As more and more reproductions are being made, I think that this Forum should have a new topic solely for the discussion, critiquing and exposing reproductions as they come on the market. The purpose is to educate the collecting community and to make it more difficult for those who want to ruin the collecting interests and market of Romanian medals, orders, and militaria for personal greed by fabricating and selling these fakes. This Forum is not here to slander the dealer but rather critique and educate the collector. I invite everyone to post here regarding fakes, reproductions, married pieces and share their opinions in these matters. Perhaps we can consolidate all previous discussions from other topics onto this Topic Title. |
| Posted by: Dénes March 01, 2006 03:42 pm |
| Good idea, RUC. Such a dedicated thread, with detailed explanations and expertese, is very welcome. Perhaps the section's moderator could move the pertinent posts (including my latest one) over here, to consolidate the topic. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Victor March 01, 2006 04:04 pm |
| I propose to just post links to the respective posts. Otherwise, the older posts will precede REGAL UNIFORMA COLLECTOR's and the topic will look odd. Denes' post with fake Order of the Star, of Carol I and of Fernidand I: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2414&view=findpost&p=47175 Link syntax edited by host |
| Posted by: dragos03 March 01, 2006 06:53 pm |
| Good idea. I think this topic should also include dubious, modern-made, medal bars, even if these bars are made using genuine awards. Here is a dubious bar, somebody sent me this pic and asked for an opinion about its originality: http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Claudiu1988 March 01, 2006 07:50 pm |
| I think it's a modern-made one. I haven't seen Romanian medal bars with japanese orders. The one near the Iron Cross is the japanese Order of the Rising Sun 4th class. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 02, 2006 04:43 am |
| http://imageshack.us Air Observer - Brightly painted center shield. Excess metal slag dot in upper right wing indicates cast piece. |
| Posted by: Wings_of_wrath March 02, 2006 12:30 pm |
| They have the very same at the MMN shop, but there it's clearly sold as reproduction, for as low as 35 RON (350,000 ROL) |
| Posted by: Dénes March 02, 2006 02:28 pm |
| Shouldn't the manufacturers of modern reproductions stamp their products, on the reverse, with a note indicating the origin and status (e.g., REPRODUCTION done by X.Y.)? That would be the fair move, so second-time buyers could not be fooled. Gen. Dénes |
| Posted by: Carol I March 02, 2006 04:23 pm | ||
That would indeed be fair. Unfortunately, the sad thing is that some of these items are not manufactured to pass as modern reproductions, but rather as 'genuine items'. In this case, a "COPY" or "REPRODUCTION" stamp would 'ruin' the effort. And this affects not only the first buyer, but the subsequent ones as well, as some items are then honestly passed as genuine items. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 02, 2006 05:47 pm |
| Most Romanian fakes are made strictly for the money and to deceit collectors. They are not made as collector copies. There is no money incentive if the pieces are marked as copies. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 07, 2006 04:34 am |
| http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=michaelthebrave1916swords6ke.jpg Opinions anyone ? |
| Posted by: Victor March 07, 2006 07:27 am |
| Shouldn't it have King Mihai's cipher if it is supposed to be a 1944 model? |
| Posted by: Carol I March 07, 2006 08:20 am | ||
The 1916 model was never issued with swords. The law of 1938 made provisions for a model with swords and there are some references to some badges being manufactured (although not issued). It is not clear (to me) though whether the 1938 model was supposed to use the cipher of King Ferdinand or that of King Carol II. The blue cross of the order with Carol II's cipher has been used as decoration on the batons of the Romanian marshals.  Furthermore, the 'rough' manufacture of the piece under question makes it even more suspicious. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 07, 2006 01:27 pm |
| It is supposedly a WW1 piece. I beleive this one to be a copy. Gilting is too fresh and enamel is too dark for a WW1 piece. What really stands out is that it has swords. WW1 pieces were issued without swords. I too have heard a story that approxiamately 5 WW1 crosses with swords were either commissioned by King Carol or were strictly proof pieces and made by Henry Weiss around the 1938 date. These were silver, hallmarked, and gold gilt and were given unofficially by King Carol to some of his Generals. I do not know the full story. This piece is not one of them. I beleive this one to have been made by a jeweler in Bucharest 8-10 years ago. It may have started out as a 1941 or 1944 original piece and ended up modified as this. |
| Posted by: Cuza March 07, 2006 02:14 pm | ||
At least part of the "story" is true. The following orders are both Weiss marked and in silver. I have also seen a 1916 First Class with swords that appears to be of 1930's vintage. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR March 07, 2006 02:20 pm |
| This piece here looks more correct for the color enamel used during the period. WW1 trough the late 1930's. |
| Posted by: Cuza March 07, 2006 02:24 pm | ||||
Other Weiss marked piece in silver gilt. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Cuza March 07, 2006 02:33 pm | ||||
I need to correct part of this statement-the other 1916 First Class with swords was not Weiss marked. |
| Posted by: mihai April 03, 2006 12:52 pm | ||
| [/QUOTE]This Japanese Order of Rising sun 6th class in this medalbar is post war model. IN war period,This design is more smooth. Mihai
|
| Posted by: mihai April 03, 2006 12:58 pm | ||
This Order of rising sun is not 4th class,it's 6th calss, This order was rare ones in Rumanian bar,but THis is not nothing. Also,In bukarest,There were Japanese ambasay,MY grand father was military attache in this house in 1942-45. |
| Posted by: b737 April 21, 2006 11:02 am |
| What is Your opinion about this "reproduction"???? http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: b737 April 21, 2006 11:04 am |
| ...the same one...! http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: boonicootza April 21, 2006 02:28 pm |
| It can't be considered a reproduction. But it's nicely made. |
| Posted by: dragos03 May 25, 2006 07:17 pm |
| I have a "Medal for commercial and industrial merit", 1st Class, that i think it's a fake. I bought it years ago from a flea market. I made a photo of it next to a genuine 2nd Class of the medal. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 01, 2006 03:38 am | ||
This First class medal actually looks good. Probably made by someone other then the State Mint. |
| Posted by: dragos03 June 01, 2006 10:50 am | ||
Well, i'm happy to hear that. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 01, 2006 11:52 am |
| I have not seen any fakes of this medal on the market. It is not a high valued medal to be worth making a fake of and then to gold gilt it. The gilting on this medal also looks to be of the period. Sometimes, when they apply the gold gilting, the maker may apply it too heavy which will obscure some of the medals detailing. |
| Posted by: Ahile June 01, 2006 02:36 pm |
| some of them has the RESCH mark on te back, take a good look. ahile |
| Posted by: Carol I June 01, 2006 03:50 pm | ||
It was mentioned on another thread that there are fakes/copies bearing the Resch hallmark, so the presence of such a mark does not bring the definitive proof of authenticity. |
| Posted by: b737 June 16, 2006 08:28 am |
| Fantasy Michael the Brave badge on ebay( 6636411852 ) http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: Carol I June 16, 2006 09:25 am | ||
I think this post would be better suited in http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=2991 as this thread is supposed to show genuine badges of the Order of Michael the Brave. |
| Posted by: b737 June 16, 2006 09:33 am | ||
You're right, I was too fast, sorry! |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 16, 2006 01:16 pm |
| Does anyone know who made this piece ? It is interesting in that the cross and crown appear to be genuine and the swords and suspension tab between the cross and crown have been added. |
| Posted by: Carol I June 16, 2006 11:08 pm | ||||
I think the cross is far from genuine since the 1941 model with the Mihai I cipher and the year 1941 on the obverse had a more elaborate reverse with both the Ferdinand cipher and the year 1916. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 17, 2006 02:50 am | ||
My observation of the cross was made based on the color of the enamel and the gold gilting. It is very good. And, by just looking at the photos, the cross and crown look genuine. However, the swords and suspension are rather crude with cast slag and sand marks. The gilting of the swords and suspension look different then the cross and crown. Brighter and more yellow in color. That is why I thought that it could have been a modified piece. |
| Posted by: Carol I June 17, 2006 09:43 am | ||
The crown looks indeed very well, but the design of the cross does not correspond to any known model of this order. The details you mentioned only prove how good was the person making it. |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 17, 2006 02:11 pm |
| Close up of the cross. The cypher and the enameling is very good. http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=repomv1941x7mg.jpg |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 17, 2006 02:16 pm |
| Close up of the crown. http://imageshack.us |
| Posted by: REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR June 17, 2006 02:24 pm |
| Some new Breast Stars are coming out of Bucharest. Using 3rd class orders of the Star with swords and applying it to a newly made silver star with the Resch stamps. Very good reproductions that are incorporating and marrying original orders to make them. Unless you have or have seen originals, these stars will fool most collectors. |
| Posted by: Carol I June 17, 2006 05:12 pm | ||
Thanks for this piece of information. Do you have some images to illustrate the appearance of these modern reproductions? |
| Posted by: mihai June 18, 2006 03:47 am | ||||||
THis is interested news,I'd like to know this modern reprodaction more. MIhai |
| Posted by: T.M.T. April 06, 2009 08:47 pm |
| This is original order MV or reproduction? http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ordmvav1o.jpg http://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ordmvrv1.jpg |
| Posted by: T.M.T. April 06, 2009 08:53 pm |
| And another one. http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ordmvav2.jpg http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ordmvrv2.jpg |
| Posted by: muggs April 14, 2011 09:33 am |
| I would be grateful if anyone could give me a link with some online shop that sells ONLY replica/repro ww2 medals, especially romanian as i couldn't find any. |
| Posted by: mihai July 15, 2013 09:09 pm | ||
HI,I can't see the scan,Could you attache the links? MI |
