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|WorldWar2.ro Forum > ARR - Romanian Royal Aeronautics > Ju 87 - the definitive answer?|
|Posted by: leonardus June 17, 2004 04:26 am|
| I seen many times on this forum the Ju 87 and variants listed to be used by ARR. I known it wasn't at all. In fact ARR did not have this type of airplane during ww2. Please, do a definitive answer.
Title modified by Dénes
|Posted by: Victor June 17, 2004 06:55 am|
| I do not know where you say you have seen so many different variants on this forum. The site is also pretty clear about it.
There was only one variant with two subvariants in use: Ju-87D-3 and Ju-87D-5 with the 3rd Dive Bomber Group from 1943 until 1944, the 6th DIve Bomber Group in 1944 and the 74th Dive Bomber Squadron in 1944-45.
|Posted by: Dénes June 17, 2004 12:57 pm|
| Just a small addition to Victor's note: at the beginning of the anti-Axis campaign, in Transylvania, on Sept. 7, 1944, the available Stukas were gathered in the so-called Grupul 6/3 bombardament în picaj.
It was only later on, on October 11, that Gr. 8 asalt (Hs 129B) and Gr. 6 picaj (Ju 87D) merged, forming Gr. 8 asalt/picaj, with all serviceable Ju 87Ds being integrated into Esc. 74 picaj, while most of the personnel of Esc. 86 picaj retiring to the homeland.
|Posted by: C-2 June 17, 2004 07:28 pm|
|The Romanian "Stukisti" took off the Ju 87 his diving brakes,the siren and the wheels covers.|
|Posted by: Victor June 18, 2004 06:36 pm|
The wheel covers were not taken off immediately, as the Grupul 3 Picaj entered action during the summer of 1943 and there was no reason to do it then. There are plenty of photos which show the wheel covers on. When mud appeared, it could gather up under the wheel covers to an extension that it could interfere with the landing procedures. That is why they were taken off.
|Posted by: dragos June 18, 2004 06:45 pm|
|Why did they took off the driving brake and the siren?|
|Posted by: C-2 June 18, 2004 07:39 pm|
| Acording to Mihai Belcin,the ARR pilots didn't like the fact that the electric mecanism could do serious problems if short -cut.
When I asked about the noice,he said that in the cabin you didn't hear it ,but it did some "nerv-dammage"also to friendly ground troops....
The dive -brakes were taken off because it made them"sitting-ducks" for the AA.(for a more accurate explanation I have to see the interwiu).
The wheel covers (like "Victor know all" swaid were taken off because of the mud).BUT NOT FROM THE BIGINNING.
All those modifications were not liked by the Germans,but were soon copied...
|Posted by: Victor June 18, 2004 07:59 pm|
That's what I said.
|Posted by: dragos June 18, 2004 08:05 pm|
I don't think this was a reasonable motive to remove the siren. As the siren was a distinctive mark of this bomber used by the friendly troops, it should raise not lower the morale. How close did they dropped the bombs from the friendly troops?
|Posted by: C-2 June 18, 2004 09:05 pm|
| The main reason for remuving the siren was that the short-circuit could make the bombs to explode.The noice was secondary.Sometimes the Stuka were droping bombs at few hundred meters from friendly troops(and sometimes on them-see Stalingrad).The noice was well heard by bouth sides.
Victor,I don't think the period that the whell covers were taken off ,interst anyone...
|Posted by: dragos June 18, 2004 09:23 pm|
And this wasn't discovered until 1943 ?
|Posted by: C-2 June 18, 2004 09:34 pm|
| Stalingrad was in 1943...
I don't know.Don't forget how unflexible are the Germans...
Belcin said ,the Germ.were outraged when the Romanian did those modifications,but soon adapted them too.
Maybee it was easyer for a non Germ to do those modif.than a German.
I'm very interested if the other users of the Ju87(Bulgaria,Croatia,Hungary,Italy and Slovakia)did also such modif.
|Posted by: Dénes June 19, 2004 01:36 am|
| Very few Ju 87D-3s had their sirens still mounted on. Later production D-3s had the siren mount deleted altogether.
The D-5 didn't have the siren mounted at all.
Later on in war, in 1944, the Ju 87Ds were increasingly used for ground attack, or shallow angle dive bombing, rather that the 'classical' 90 degrees (or higher) dive bombing. That was one of the main reasons why the (now unnecessary) diving brakes were taken off.
|Posted by: Vuk April 04, 2006 12:23 am|
|I realize that this is a very old thread but I got to ask, were any Ju87D sold to Romania? I´ve always got the impression that all Stukas used by the ARR were on loan from the Luftwaffe.|
|Posted by: Dénes April 04, 2006 02:13 am|
| There were no Ju 87s directly ordered by Rumania from Germany.
All Stukas were handed over by the Luftwaffe for front use only.
|Posted by: sid guttridge April 04, 2006 10:00 am|
| Hi Guys,
On a negative note, in some 1960s and 1970s English-language magazines it was reported that the Romanians received Ju87Bs. This was NOT true. As outlined above, they only ever received variants of the Ju87D.
|Posted by: Treize April 04, 2006 07:29 pm|
|I was under the impression that all Ju-87s from the initial "D" models on did away with the siren?|
|Posted by: yogy April 06, 2006 01:03 pm|
The quotation is a typical prejudice... and definitely wrong, sorry (I am german).
I always thought the sirenes as well as the divebreaks were removed because they lowered v_max of the Ju87... what's up about this bomb-explosion-story?
|Posted by: D13-th_Mytzu April 06, 2006 02:22 pm|
| Anyone heard of bombs going off on Ju87 due to siren shortcut ?
Yogy fortunatelly that can be taken as a compliment as opposed to the prejudices related to romanians. What C2 probably meant was that Germans are more inclined to repecting rules and regulations then romanians are :]
|Posted by: nuklik July 02, 2006 04:01 pm|
|This Stukas delivered to Romania in version D-5 were made in Slovakia. The company name is STL Trencianske Biskupice - STL for Slovak factory for aircrafts. We were last country producing them. Production line started in late 1943. I thing planning number was 25 per month - 75% for Germany 25% Slovakia. They made around 50 before slovak uprising broke out in summer 44.|
|Posted by: Eroul Bula August 14, 2017 08:57 am|
| In fact, Romania tried to buy 40 Ju87B in 1940.
The order for 40 planes was made after Romanians found out that Germans sold 2 Ju87B and 1-4 Ju87A to Hungary.
Knowing what Romanians and Hungarians would do with Ju-87s (bomb each other), Hitler denied Romanian order and, until 1943, blocked any Ju87 delivery to both countries.
In 1943, needing more crews for his bombers, he agreed to deliver Ju87s to Romania and Hungary but in special conditions:
- he only LOANED the planes to Romanians, allowing them to put Romanian marks on the planes;
- he sold planes to Hungarians but, when retiring from the east front, Hungarians have to deliver back the planes to the Germans.